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Stealing Ideas from Others

Mar 1, 2011

    1. There's a world of difference between being influenced by things around you and deliberately 'stealing' something. Taking someone else's artwork and claiming it as your own is theft, using their artwork as a reference to create your own piece is inspiration. At least that's how I see it. Heck, I sold a doll to someone who decided to keep her look, name and character but I don't consider that theft, it's a compliment that my ideas and visions for the doll were appealing enough to make the buyer keep them. Even though the character is quite a pivotal one from the novel I'm writing :lol:

      In terms of the situation of the OP, I don't think it's 'theft' in the least. But then... I have a pretty strange/warped view on the concept of aesthetic theft in the hobby, since I actually wouldn't really conisder it theft at all if someone bought the exact same doll I have, dressed it the same, gave it the same name and a similar backstory (since only I know the full extent making it identical would be pretty hard :XD:) since it's not copyrighted to me - if anything it's copyrighted to the artist who made the sculpt and the seamstress who created the clothing etc. I've just pulled it all together in one piece, the only thing I could potentially consider theft is the backstory, but then I'd have to read every book in existence to prove that my idea is so utterly and completely unique that they couldn't possibly have come to the same idea that I did :lol: After all, many of my dolls' characters are based loosely on history anyway so unless I'm stealing the ideas of our ancestors... Yeah :lol:

      So maybe my opinion should be disregarded as ridiculous because I have a really weird view on things :lol: Also, that was the most pointlessly long-winded way of getting my point across, I am so bad with words :sweat (Bad quality for a writer, I know :XD:)
       
    2. Well, I think that as our hobby contains so many people,its very hard to have a VERY UNIQUE IDEA.XD Ideas are always in the air.
      If I will see a redheared and blue-eyed Eva Louise with natural make-up I wont get angry, untill this doll wont have the same story as my doll has.
       
    3. It's hard to have unique ideas, period. I could describe the plot of one of my stories to someone, and they'll say, "Oh, that sounds just like so-and-so's novel, Insert Title Here." And I'll say "Who? Wrote what? And when?" You may come up with an idea which bears close resemblance to another's, simply because you both had the idea. It's possible. Heck, it's even likely.

      While I don't have a problem with drawing inspiration from another's work, I shy away from "idea borrowing." I might see someone's male Supia Roda doll and think, "Wow, that makes a really pretty boy." Let's say I go ahead and make a Supia Roda boy, but the characters are completely different, hair, eyes, clothes, etc. I was inspired by someone's female-to-male mod and used the idea in the creation of my own effeminate boy. (For the record, this hasn't happened. I don't like boy dolls. My girls are girls.) Is this idea theft? I don't think so, because the end product is different. I would probably contact the owner of the original boy Supia that had inspired me, though, if only because I'm sure s/he would have useful tips for the modding process.
       
    4. There's an overabundance of gay angelic vampiric werewolf pretty-boys in BJD-dom. Not that it's necessarily bad, it's just what some people's tastes gravitate to. I don't consider that stealing, however, as ideas feed off each other naturally.
       
    5. What copying and stealing is depends on the view of the person you were inspired by.
      I think most people in this hobby are extremely creative ones, and with that there will be many similar ideas,
      but everyone would make his own story out of it.
      There are even many people showing their ideas and how they made it so they CAN inspire others do to similar things.

      If you are not creative enough to get an idea and/or are obviously copying a doll 1:1 on purpose (and even claim it to be your idea), for me as an artist and an individual, i think it sucks ! (^^)"
      (I do believe everyone can be creative enough to make something individual out of the idea.)
      When being so completely taken by an original idea of someone else, do contact that specific person and discuss the topic with that person.
      As said, most people are friendly and like to share their ideas and, i think, will definitely help you make the concept and idea your own one.


      And here something to just be thought of:

      Copying most of a specific doll of another doll-owner seems to be a problem,
      but copying the concept and character of, as an example, an anime seems fine,
      ("since the idea didn't came from a person that could blame you for it") ?!

      How many KDF Bory-sculpts out in the forums were made to be the character "Ciel" from the Anime "Kuroshitsuji / Black Butler" ?
      The clothes were sewn after the ones from the artwork, the character is meant to behave similar or the same way..
      Even commissioners sew the clothes for you and doll firms make sculpts after the anime and style them like the OCs.

      And there are many doll cosplays and photostorys to replay a part of the original Anime, etc. in the sense of cosplaying.
      Or to show an extra story like a fanfiction.

      And what about full-sets or limited dolls ?
      If you buy a full-set there are plenty other doll-owners having the exact same doll as you do.
      Sure you usually give the doll another name and another background. (many will also change the style of the doll or make modifications)
      But for someone wanting to just have that doll that specific way she looks like from the company .. ?


      Well .. with the last part i don't want to point at anyone and itโ€™s not meant to say whatโ€™s wrong and what not.
      They are just some fundamental ideas that weren't mentioned yet and are worth the thought about it, when talking about copying and stealing ideas, concepts, characters, etc.

      Thereโ€™s many merchandise wittingly and officially made after famous Animes, Mangas, Games, etc.
      I think i wouldnโ€™t mind having a BJD looking like a character of my fav. Game, but more to just display.
      And here comes the thin line: what is copying ?!
      Itโ€™s really a difficult topic ! ^__~


      But it's definitely true what Aiko-chan stated: "Art is comprised of idea theft. The only rule is you have to do it better."
      And how many others mentioned: there's always someone who had the idea or a similar one before you.
       
    6. I like the idea alot as well and i agree with the idea that before you go ahead with this idea for your character to speak to this girl first and like monkey said on the first post if you tell her that you are "inspired" by her doll then i dont see why she would have a problem with this :)

      P.s i actually no two dolls by friends that have tourettes :PP one friend got the idea from the other and it was all koooool
       
    7. Being inspired by it is one thing. Copying is another. It sounds a lot like copying, so I would be careful.

      Also, having had seizures, I will tell you there is nothing romantic about it.

      If you're going to make your doll have an illness, let it be something that is familiar or close to you. If you are an epileptic, then that's fine, but seizures are terrible.

      I have the noctural kind, where I get to wake up in the middle of them, concious while they're occuring, and I can't do a thing about it. It's frightening as heck thinking you're going to choke or not be able to breathe or hurt yourself while your body is as tense as a rod in some places and flailing as a flag in others. You can't cry out, you're just making this gag-gag-gag noise, and when it's done, you're so disoriented you just lay there and wonder what happened until you realize, Oh, it was a seizure...and then the helplessness hits because you're on medication that's supposed to stop those things from happening.

      So please, think and do research before making your character have an illness. It's an insult if you don't understand what it's about. There are so many rules you have to follow just to keep seizures at bay, and it's something you have to worry about constantly.

      Sorry, rant over. :3
       
    8. See, that's what happens when you don't wear a tin-foil hat :lol:

      All joking aside, theft is not ok, but inspiration is. It's impossible to go through life and not be effected by what you see -- sometimes it's not even conscious. If the OP was to copy all the details of this other person's doll, then there would be an issue. However, it is possible to have two dolls with epilepsy that are very different. I agree with whoever said it all comes down to the details.

      I have several fan dolls, and I know that they are not the only ones of those characters on the board. I also have a cross dressing boy and several girls who like to wear loli type stuff. A lot of people have dolls like that too, because in a big group of people you're going to get folks who share certain interests -- overlap will occur.
       
    9. Hmm, so many different responses! All very positive though!:)

      As a artist who does plan to publish my workings one day, and knows a writer
      whom also hopes to get into self publishing, I can tell you that the ideas you will
      be most proud of are the ones that came truly from YOU.

      I can say that I personally stray away from anything that has been wholly done
      before as best as I can, and I do believe that there IS such a thing as an
      original concept just as we are all original ourselves.

      I know that I've spent years on my said books to hone them and make them
      as perfect and original I can possibly make them, and I personally wouldn't want someone to come along and say "Oh, she probably got that idea from someone else"and take it, because you can't simply assume that for the sake of saving grace.
      (not saying that's the case here though):)

      So, you do indeed seem to be 'inspired' by her and you're IMO not outright
      copying, but it is getting a little close and I hope that you can find a happy
      medium in this, whether it's asking them or finding a concept you love just as
      much. ^^

      I also agree with Taco because it's very true. It's impossible to
      not ever pick up on everything you see. Ideas are much harder
      to make your own than a concept itself. Concepts are typically
      much easier to make original, IMO.

      That said, I would keep the epilepsy/seizure if you really do find that fascinating.
      I often learn best through my characters and you might found a good
      outlet to explain your fascination with the said subject if your character
      demands research on it. Hope this helps!;)
       
    10. Isn't there a saying about imitation being the most sincere form of flattery? I am inspired every day by what I see others do on here; it has given me lots of ideas for my own dolls and it's one of the main reasons I love this forum. I have even bought a couple of dolls because of the beautiful things I have seen their owners do with them. I have never and would never attempt to copy exactly what someone else has done. But I do think it's perfectly fine to be inspired by another's work and to take that idea and make it into something uniquely your own.
       
    11. This, exactly.

      I don't feel like appropriating one or two ideas from another writer's character is necessarily a bad thing. An illness isn't an illness if only one person ever had it, and it is likely that a person with a serious disease would have some sort of medic-alert jewelry. The point would be to see what you can develop beyond those ideas. One detail, an illness or a horrible childhood, doesn't make for a complete character, and a well written character is more than just that one defining trait.

      I often draw inspiration from things I've seen online or in books. I do my own faceup work and a lot of the things I've tried are because of images I've seen here on DoA. At the same time, I don't feel that I have ever outright copied someone else. I never started any face up with the intention of duplicating the look of the other owner's doll, so my dolls invariably look different.

      The masks that two of my dolls have blushed around their eyes was inspired by another collector's doll. I borrowed the general idea, not just because I thought it looked cool, but because I felt it was appropriate for the supernatural nature of the characters (I don't remember the character of the doll who inspired me, unfortunately) - and because I honestly couldn't think of what I wanted to do with their eyebrows.
       
    12. I want to make a movie that is the exact same thing as Disney's Beauty and the Beast, or do a painting that is the exact same as the Mona Lisa. Sure I can do it, but I can't say that it's not fair if I'm slapped with a lawsuit by Disney's army of lawyers. Direct copying is still copying and why should we feel bad if someone is upset they can't do that? Should we also feel bad for people that copy answers in school and then get expelled?

      Now, this is not to say that the OP is going to copy everything about the other doll (I've been inspired by things I've seen too!) but taking an idea and being inspired is different than stealing all the little details that make a character unique. If someone wants to put a Cristal in a pink or other colourful wig that is their choice, but taking the details that make Smartie unique would get me pissed off.
       
    13. I'm afraid I don't understand the point you're trying to make, kokoryta, since you seem to be using references which do not relate to this matter. If someone were to copy a copyrighted movie and make a movie just like it, clearly that has to do with stealing with the intent to make profit from it, which is illegal and therefore clearly wrong. I neglect to see how someone having a doll that looks like someone else's being able to steal profit from anyone else or how it is illegal? And I was not talking about if it's right to steal or not, but why it is okay for one person to be made to feel bad versus another person being made to feel bad, why are the two people not equal?

      If you were trying to use a relative example, this sort of thing is closer to someone seeing a girl go to school in a certain style of boots with a certain hairstyle and someone else copying that. As that is not a copyrightable thing nor against any laws or rules, as copying a test in school is. This is purely a matter of two people and the same idea and image, not about corporations, copyrighted material, lawsuits, laws, rules or the like.

      I guess I will try and use a personal example branching from your lovely Cristal you mentioned in your post. What if I said you couldn't have a pink-haired doll named Smartie because I had a pink-haired doll named Smartie? That it would only be alright if you changed her hair to blue or changed her name to something else because with the two similarities that is just too close and you should automatically not do it because it would make me feel bad that your doll was like mine. Wouldn't you be hurt if I said that and truly believed it to be so? Would you not be upset that horrible things were said to you like that?

      I am trying to wrap my head around this logic and so far no one can really explain why they feel that way. That it is alright for the copying person to feel bad, but it's not alright for the copied person to feel bad. Why would you only feel bad for the one person? Can you explain that, please? I would truly like for someone to explain it so I could perhaps understand why people feel that way.

      Lastly, along the lines of the 'why should we feel bad that they can't do it?', why should they feel bad that them copying from you upsets you if you aren't willing to look at it from the that angle, why should they? Empathy is best when it is applied to more than just one person. From what I can understand, people are saying they can only manage to feel bad for one person, but not the other and that they feel bad for them because they are upset, which the other person is upset, too. But they only care about the one and I want to know why that is.



      -edit- **Better phrased version below this point**

      Ah, my mother helped me think of a better way to phrase what I was trying to say from the very beginning but failed in phrasing properly. The thing I was shocked and wondering about is (based on some earlier comments by a few posters), are those two very small character details really worth hurting someone else's feelings for, one way or the other? Would doing such a thing really seem like the right thing to do to you (general 'you'), all because of an idea? And it is this question which I think both sides should be asking themselves, the copying and the copied person, not just the one side. Some people are pretty much saying, 'who cares how much you hurt another person as long as your ideas are protected, that's all that matters!' I was really shocked to read such a mentality from the posts I read it from, that they put ideas over other people and hoped for a better understanding of why that is.
       
    14. I think I'm trying to understand what you just said, Rikka_Mika, but I don't think I do. So let me try.

      If I were to go and buy a pair of YoSD Lins and make them twins, but I'm not going to call them Milk and Tea, I'm going to call them Coffee and Cake. But see, that's close enough, right? I got the idea because I've seen you holding out so long and wanting it SOO MUCH. Now every time you look at your dolls, you're going to think of mine and how I got there first. And everytime someone else looks and yours, they might think of how I did mine, and how I did it before you did, because I had mine first.

      Oh, look at you. You copier, you. You fake. You horrible person.

      Copying is bad for everyone. Which I think is what you're trying to say. So it's not just bad for the copier, but for the copiee.

      I think.

      Either way, didn't your parents teach you better than that, OP? And aren't you more creative to get better ideas? There's a ton of things out there that can be used. Religious medals, medical conditions that are rare and incureable. Did you know there is actually a genetic disease that encodes in the DNA to start killing the body at a certain age and you die within one-two years? That there's nothing to do about it but wait and die?

      Research. Be creative. DO NOT STEAL. And for the love of all things stop being a sheep-lemming.
       
    15. I think you understand pretty well what I was trying to say, KohakuTenshi! :D I am very sorry my phrasing is so bad, I do tend to have issues in finding the proper words to convey my thoughts.
      I was trying to say what you said, but also how I am amazed by the people that will go around saying things like this:
      To other people so easily for such tiny offenses. Surely there is a better way to 'deal' with the situation than to automatically jump the gun and start purposely trying to hurt other people?
       
    16. Unfortunately, we seem to live in that sort of world and in a place where fakes and copies can be made so easily it's hard not to jump and go, "OMG!" now and ask questions later.
       
    17. Yes, I think that is it exactly. Thank you for replying, you did explain things in a way which I could understand that logic. :) I must have been thinking too deeply on it. I was reading some of these replies and thinking to myself, "Surely these people don't really feel that way, do they?" and the answer seems to be; No, they don't feel that way. Their first reaction was just perhaps a bit harsh, but not their full, true feelings. They were just a bit worked up when they said that, I'm sure. :aheartbea I feel better to know that is probably the case, you're right.
       
    18. @ Rikka_Mika & kokoryta: I think you both have identified the squickiest detail about spentellit's question. It's the fact that spentellit can and does identify the source of their inspiration. (In fact, I think I know which doll they are referring to.)

      If spentellit hadn't said what details and that they had been specifically inspired by another doll, I would have assumed that they had come up with the idea on their own. My first thought would have been "Oh, ok, ANOTHER doll with some horribly debilitating disease." No, I'm not mocking humans who are truly ill, but illnesses and horrible/tragic pasts are pretty common in doll and fan-type characters.

      spentellit also said, to begin with, that they had "always had a fascination with seizures". So they could have decided to go the route they have with their character without any prompting. The seed was already there, it's just that this doll made them think about it more seriously.

      Yes, outright copying, for the purpose of having an identical character/faceup/etc. is wrong, but I don't see anything wrong with being inspired by a small and relatively innocuous detail - like a name or being a vampire, etc. Since bringing home my latest doll I've run across no fewer than 3 other dolls who have her name - but I don't question it or assume that the other person might be copying me. In other respects these dolls were completely different.

      When in doubt, it wouldn't hurt to just ask the other person. The worst they can say is "No."
       
    19. Uhmm...I feel I should step in here a bit just 'cause I'm the one the OP was talking about...

      First off, we've talked via PMs and I've told them that I do not mind if they want to make their doll epileptic and yes, even have a medical I.D. It did squick me a bit at first, but really, it's their doll, they can do what they want with it. I would really only have had a problem if they named him Imogen, gave him blue hair and a twin brother, and copied other pieces of his character. Since the epilepsy is NOT what makes Imogen as a character, I don't mind so much.

      I do feel, however, that sometimes people get a little personal about their "ideas". Originality is a rare, rare thing these days, and it gets harder and harder because more and more media is being pumped into the populace. Everything we read, see, hear, hell even glance at, becomes a part of our mental repertoire, and we tend to draw on those things in a creative pinch. No, I'm not the first person to have a doll/character with a disease, just like the OP won't be the last. So I'm not going to get my knickers in a bunch because I'm sure that the idea to give my character epilepsy was influenced by something else. In fact, right at this moment I'm recalling a thread that was for dolls with handicaps, and I remember finding it fascinating, especially since a lot of the dolls seemed to be coping mechanisms for their owners. I don't have epilepsy, nor does anyone I know, but I think it's a fascinating disease (like, studiously fascinating, not "oh, awesome, you get seizures!" fascinating) and I adore research, so half of my giving my character this disease was simply incentive for me to learn about it. Like someone else mentioned, the epilepsy is a very general characterization; it's the nuances of his personality that make him Imogen to me, not the fact that he is epileptic. Her doll is its own character, and my doll is its own character, but they both happen to have this one disease. I'm pretty sure there's more than one human that has epilepsy, so why can't there be two dolls? Besides, there are different classifications of epilepsy, her doll might have a different one. So even in the same characteristic, things can be tweaked and changed.

      But I digress...

      Point is: Outright stealing=bad. Being inspired by just the one characteristic that really struck a chord=fine by me.
       
    20. Idea is very fine thing. In my opinion, idea can't be stealed by its nature. You can steal only implementation of particular idea. For example, "epileptical doll" is only idea, such as "princess doll", "vampire doll", "doll in middleages dress" and even "queen Guinevere doll". You have this idea in your imagination only. And this ideas could be implemented many ways.

      But if you start copy not only idea, but implementation details such as key parts of outfit, it becomes some sort of stealing. I think in this case you should refer to original author when you publish it.

      Any way I feel absolutly normally when my see ideas in creation of other people. It means that I have done good thing :)