The consequences of copied dolls

Hmm now here is a tough point in the modern era...and I speak from experience, and you know...I think some people will hate me for saying this BUT

I own a copied doll, or to be exact, a body. I bought it before it was a known copy, and I was not sufficiently familiar with Volks dolls to realise the body I bought was a copy. The doll is from a company called Laura's Dream Doll, now well known for copying Volks dolls. When I bought it I thought the low price was worth the risk. I now regret it utterly as an artist, paying a bootlegger is abhorrent to me. I am not attracted to Volks head sculpts, or male body sculpts, so I was not familiar enough to realise I had just bought a copy of a 13 girl body.

I still have it.
I will never sell it
I have never posted pictures of it on here. I never will

I refuse to be further a part of the bootlegging....but here is where people are going to dislike me....

The doll is excellent quality. I have been collecting them for years, and I could not tell from the sculpt, jointing, resin, stringing, or anything else about this doll that it was a copy! In fact I found it to be better than the Volks dolls I had handled.

I am NOT, I repeat NOT approving of these bootlegs nor am I promoting them, in fact if I heard someone used my words as the basis for getting one I would be furious, but I am saying it is getting harder all the time to tell, particularly on things like bodies, where you don't have head details to compare.

Some companies do an excellent job and sell a product that is equal in quality on all aspects to the originals, and for someone like me, who loathes and detests the thought of copies, well that is horrifying. How can we tell? it gets harder and harder every day.

Don't assume you can just tell a copy from an original, for some it is easy, the quality is horrible, but for some it is MUCH harder than you think, and you need to do your research before buying. With a new company this is hard to do, and until some of us get burned by buying well then it is very hard to tell. I got burned, but not badly, thankfully. I can shoulder the loss. For those who can't bear in ind the simple rule: If it looks too good to be true, then it is.

 

I personally think its best to buy from the company or one of their legit resellers. I dont want to have to deal with something toxic if I would accidently buy from a knock offer >_>;;

I found out yesterday my friend decided to spend her paycheck on a doll, just like I did with my birthday money because she thought they were cool when I showed her. The unfortunate thing is that she bought it from Laura's Dream Doll. I told her who she was buying from but she doesnt have the money to buy from Volks themselves and she wont change her mind.

I just hope LDD doesnt have toxic dolls -_-;; (do they?) Knock off dolls annoy me, probably just like they annoy everyone else who likes company made dolls and not the fakes.

 

The analogy of fake designer purses makes a bit of sense, but I think what some people are forgetting is that owning a purse is NOT, in any way, like owning a BJD.

If you own a fake Gucci purse, and a "Guccinatic" is able to recognize it as such by just looking at it, the most you'll get is a sneer and a, "Heh, nice try, poser!" from her. And that's only if you bump into a real Regina George; most people nowadays won't care enough to even waste a snarky remark on it. Also, when you buy a purse, it's mostly just for the purpose of matching your outfit and having something to carry your cell phone and money in -- the purse is never a item socialization centers around. Who cares if a few "designer snobs" shun you? You can enjoy it anyways, and you still saved big bucks. You don't need "the community" to accept you to enjoy the purse, you know?

Dolls are different -- a big part of the hobby is being on the forums, going to meets, and showcasing your pictures and outfits you've sewn. The hobby is very, very driven by socialization -- to the point some people who can't make friends and "get along" with the community end up quitting the hobby. And owning a fake can lead to a very, very unpleasant experience, specially for newbies. At the least, someone will politely inform you that your doll's on the "Banned for fake" list, and you will once again feel "left out" and saddened by the fact that your doll isn't allowed on the forum; at the worst, you will probably have someone berating you, or remarking how irritating it is when newbies want "cheap" BJDs and go for fakes. Owning a fake in this community can be plenty unpleasant, with the strain it puts on the social aspect -- the community makes it that way, to discourage people from buying them.

So long as the community keeps reacting negatively to fakes like they've done up until now, I don't think their market will ever flourish. I doubt many people who found out about dolls through DoA and others' pictures will be happy with a doll they can't show online just because it costs less.

I do dislike it. Heck, I don't even own fake designer stuff -- if it's too expensive for me to afford, I just try to "get over it" and move on, you know? I don't think it's fair ti disrespect someone's art (be it accessory designing or dull sculpting) just because I "want it NAO!!" and can't afford the original.

 

I am glad to hear Andie's response there, a lot of people talk about the economic and moral impacts of bootlegged dolls, but think of the impact on the nieve owner.

You want a doll, you think they are amazing, you save your money and spend it on a doll you can afford, whether you know it is a rip off or not...and what do you get?

you get a doll that you cannot show on DoA, that you cannot take to meetups, that will gain you derision in the community, that you will NEVER be able to sell, and that could earn you ostracism within the BJD community. I am sure out there there are people who do not care, and they may even have forums and meets, or maybe these owners prefer to sit at home and not participate in the larger community......but think how much the poor owner misses out on for a bad purchase.

Ilsyl, I really hope something changes your friend's mind before she makes a HUGE mistake, I would hate her to miss out on so much of what makes this hobby amazing

 

Um, as a newbie I am slightly afraid of the passion this topic invokes... I have not bought a knockoff as my first doll(thank god) as the vituperitave response to what may be an honest mistake is quite alarming! Us noobs don't know "hay from a bull's foot" as my mom would say and we can be too enthusiastic!

A lot of the people on this site have a staggering amount of dolls. We can't all afford it and that could easily lead to the well it doesn't matter as long as I love it situation.

BUT we all want to be like the rest of you long term doll addicts. I am NOT condoning or accepting this practice I am just saying the where the desire for ANY doll at ANY cost(not just money) comes from.

Trying to decide what to buy and feeling quite awful when the final price is converted to my currency, knowing I can't afford or justify it is just horrible. I am coming to terms with needing to wait for the sculpts to come. To get what I want. I have realised through the amount of searching I have done that I don't want the cheap stuff because the beauty of the real deal speaks to me.

I wouldn't buy a copied bag or watch. A friend just bought a fake Tag Heuer watch in Turkey and is thrilled to bits and it is indistinguishable from the real thing. I was surprised to find myself feeling a bit of an internal sneer when he showed me. He is not well off and could never in his life afford a real one so why am I bothered with his knockoff he is over the moon and thinks it fun?

Explain to me please why this copying lark dimishes our expensive dolls?
Surely like the other stuff ( bags , watches etc), there is layered system and other forums will tolerate them but they will not appear here. Isn't that what we want?

Also I love the whole painting, modding thing and surely that means that those dols are even more exclusive being as they are unique? If those kinds of dolls are forbiddenhere then where do we modders go to find the quality of sharing and debate?

This is a minefield...

 

pthbt.

Opinion withdrawn because it was mostly said already.

 

Demented Plea ( I like your name)

Because a true knock-off is stealing from the original creator. If you created something of value and someone else copied it exactly and sold it undercutting your price what position would you be left in?

Yes I do think it hurts the doll community. This is a very artistic hobby and we should support the original artists so that they will always be there to make dolls for us.

Oh, and I would never fault a collector for an honest mistake I think anyone can be fooled with a well taken photo posted on the internet and some Photoshop magic!

 

I completely disagree with this. Owning fake designer is no different than owning a copied doll. If you don't like designer items, then don't buy them. Dolls and handbags are both luxury items, and while they may be different products, neither one of them are a necessity, nor are they a necessity to socialize (though socialization may center around both). There are many communities where you can buy purses or whatever and show them off online. It's no different from people taking pictures of their dolls.

If you like a company or a designer, you will buy their product to support them. Just because many people buy designer knock off bags, clothes, or accessories does not mean that it's okay. I personally think it is hypocritical to condone buying fake designer goods and condemn those who buy knock off dolls.

 

I heard some concerns on here about people who are new tot he hobby accidentally buying a knock off doll, that they would be ostracized for not knowing any better, and I can understand why some people would be concerned about this, but the thing to remember is we are NOT upset about a person making a genuine mistake, but are upset that the knock off exists in the first place.

I own a knock off, I hate that I do, because by giving people money, IE purchasing their product, I inadvertently encouraged the behavior and helped them continue this artistic theft. I have never been ostracized for owning one, since it was a genuine mistake, however.....I cannot and will not and would not post it here, or ever condone anyone else getting one. I give sympathy not scorn to those who accidentally and unknowingly purchase one. Scorn is reserved for people who KNOW they are doing the wrong thing and do it anyway, or to be more precise, scorn is reserved for that act.

Honest mistakes are just that, honest, however if you are new to the hobby the FIRST thing you should do is research like mad, this is an expensive hobby, you would not buy any other expensive item without finding out the quality first, so why would someone not do their best to research a doll? so really you need to live by buyer beware.

 

This makes me think of the guitar body shapes that have been copied by many companies, some openly offering cheaper version of the originals, in some cases those companies being owned by the company that created the originals. Does anyone think the last of the above could happen with BJD companies?

 

I do think some how marking the heads and bodies in some unique fashion would help. I know a lot of doll companies either have some sort of head plate or carve in the resin head but maybe a marking on the neck of the body (that's hidden by the head) to prove it is legit?

This just came to mind after Effigy mentioned the LDD that is a copy of volks. Good way to spot a copy if there's some sort of tiny plate in the body too. Just a thought :3

 

I have the feeling that Recasted dolls will never be the same as the original. Why? Because teh resin "become smaller" in each recast.
I'm not EXACTLY sure about it, but I've heard lots of people alking about it.

An exemple is the Brakeaway (Luts). He is a modified El head. If you compare the first Brakeaway and the second version of him, you'll see the second version has a smaller/thinner nose, and other aspects that, if you look with atention you will see tht it seams the resin "become smaller" each recast.
A friend of mine has both versions of him, so I saw it with my own eyes (she was the one who tld me to look it with attention)

And there's the issue about the resin color, resin apearence etc etc...

I DO think you can recognize them.

Well, if it's a Brekeaway recast HEAVELY modded....well...in this case maybe the doll would pass...but...come on, how many dolls HEAVELY modded do we have here on DOA?


anyway, just my oppinion...

 

Sometimes it is really, really hard to tell if a doll is the original or the recast.

Hate to bring the Dollzone Lynn/ Woori discussion up again, but that was really, really impossible to see.

http://www.dezarii.net/images/copyright/LynnWoori.jpg

NOT MY PIC.

 

Hello again,it is hard to tell as a newbie. however much research you do the quality and resin type in photos. Living in the UK we have very few places that have dolls even occasionally never mind big ranges so unless you go meets you can never get to see what a real one looks like...
We can't all go to meets.

I totally agree that the making of knock off dolls is THEFT. I am an artist and it would seriously piss me off if it was done to me...I can see though how there are double standards. A bag a watch, clothes... how does it happen that some of these things are almost acceptable even funny or fun anyway for some people.

I have managed to get some better dolls for my collection as time has passed and I am seeing the difference in the resin, posing ability and general construction and indeed the artistry in the sculpt which is what it is all about for me.

I don't have a huge amount of money but I am saving for that special one!, but I am also buying cheaper dolls. They let me indulge my modding and painting wihihthout the risk to a more precious one. If one was a knock off? then I wonder if I would dislike it enough to box it up and leave it. Obviously I couldn't sell it.

One thing I think we are all aware of is that the copiers etc do a good trade on Ebay........ I used to think it would be ok to risk it on there but now I willl stick with buying on this site. I know that we all take a risk everytime we buy a doll that wasn't bought from the original site or registered dealer, but somehow it seems safer here. Although looking at the scammers list puts the fear of god into one!!!

Really as an inexperienced collector it scares me to death that one of my beloved dolls would end up being outed as a copy, does it make you like it less? those of you who have been caught.

 

I don't now anything abou the "Dollzone Lynn/ Woori discussion" ._.'
But if it is a recast of someone else...or a copy for any of those two companies u_U.. well... I stillthink it's unacceptable.

Otherwise... that discussion about "Souldoll copying Unoa... Souldoll copying Ani [?]"... I really don't agree with that ._.'' ...
The dolls can be alike because of some characteristics or even the makeup... but I see LOTS of diferences.... and personally I even think Souldoll Mayu much prettier than Unoa u-u''

I really HATE people who recast ._.' ...really, I don't know what they're thinking... because in a hobby like this, where people do care about their dolls and stuff... the recast would much probably be discovered soon or later....

 

Here is a scenario for you...

BJD manufacturing plant has molds of a doll made by a small company who goes out of business. They have some extra of these dolls lying around taking up valuable space.

They sell the dolls to a local Native person as samples who is excited to start a business in the bjd doll world. This person thinks that they have a new doll sculpt. The manufacturer gives them all the proper things/paperwork that this is an original doll. (Technically, it is.) They do not tell the buyer that these were molds from a no longer exhisting business.

The doll is technically NOT a copy, it is an original. Made from the original mold. The original company no longer exhists. The manufacturer wants to cover their loss. This is a business for them, not a hobby.

Is the seller guilty of selling a "copy" doll?
Is the manufacturer wrong to want to get rid of the stock and recoup their money?

Just want to see what you all think....

 

No, the manufacturer is guilty of copyright infringment, because he is selling dolls that aren't his. The original creator can take legal action against the him. And of course the manufacturer is wrong: Just because he has signed a contract to produce the dolls under supervision of the creator, doesn't mean he owns the intelligent property.

 

I didn't read this whole discussion, but there is also the fact that most doll companies are very small. Gucci is not a small company by any means. I'm not saying it makes it more or less right, but the feeling is different. When you know someone hand-sculpted the original to be loved (or at least has convinced the buyers of that) and you buy a knock-off it seems a little more diabolical. Though that in and of itself is not too likely to happen as most knock-offs are larger companies, it still seems more personal somehow.

It's not sticking it to the man to buy a knock-off doll.

I did purchase a knock-off bag upon request for a family member once, but I really don't like the idea of bootleg stuff. I think it's important to support the artist (or producer) so that they will continue to make new products.

 

Have to add though: this is based on copyright law in The Netherlands. Intelligent property is copyrighted until 70 years after the original creator's death.

 

I totally agree with honeyedbiscuit. Furthermore, bootlegs causes a depreciation in value of authentic goods.