The consequences of copied dolls

If we are going to say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, then why would it feel wrong to have an opinion about people owning recasts? I do indeed have an opinion about many many things, including recast owners. I don't even have to know who they are to have an opinion about them. It isn't even anyone else's business what my opinion is if I chose to keep it to myself, but the second I share it, it matters.

My opinion (adamant disapproval) might not matter to the people who only care about their own gratification, but it will matter to the artists and it will matter to potential doll purchasers who are concerned about fitting in to a larger social group. People who are thinking about buying a recast need to think about which social group they are choosing; do they want to enjoy a harmless hobby free from accusations of wrongdoing or do they want to waste some of that time defending their purchasing choices? Even if they don't care what other people think, I am pretty sure they are going to get sucked into talking about it. Do they relish conflict and negativity? Or would they rather just talk about doll shoes? I rarely care what other people think of me, but I would still rather just talk about doll shoes.

Again, to say "I can't care because it isn't my business" is the passivity upon which recast purchasers are relying. If it's too much trouble to even voice disapproval, then it's already too late. The purchase will be made and therefore it is in contact with the hobby at large. The doll has already been recast, the recaster has already made money and been encouraged to make more, the artist has already felt betrayed. It doesn't matter if that recast doll sits in a box in the back of someone's closet until it's buried with its owner, the damage has been done. Therefore, I will express my not-at-all-neutral opinion when I am given the opportunity and I will choose whom I will and will not sell to, buy from or socialize with. If it encourages even one person to go the legitimate route, great! It cost me nothing and made a real artist some money.

There are many recast buyers who already do not regard BJDs as works of art and treat them simply as objects, so that ship has sailed. Many cosplayers want BJDs as accessories but their budget is natually focused on clothes, not the expensive toy that is the trendy accessory at the moment. There might be some appreciation for the artistry involved, but the social group to which they belong is not centered around BJDs. That's one of the drawbacks to this hobby becoming more mainstream!

 

Something you said actually made me think of something else regarding recasts. This part:

"It doesn't matter if that recast doll sits in a box in the back of someone's closet until it's buried with it's owner, the damage has been done."

I hadnt even thought of what will happen to these recasts after their owners die. What if a family member takes them and know of them via the real sculpt and company names and sells them because they dont want them and think they are worth a lot of money? What then? That means recasts will be passed off as the originals, being bought by those who have NO idea that they are recasts. And the cycle continues. These dolls are not going to get destroyed or cremated with their owners most likely, also most of them probably wont be buried with their owners either. Instead they will be packed up into boxes to either be sold in a garage sale or online somewhere without the people who are selling them knowing anything about them unless of course they are doll people themselves. They will be sold as the real thing more than likely and will not be labeled properly etc. This in the end will cause even more problems with the hobby, and will put unsuspecting new doll owners at risk.

 

You...do realize these are contradictory statements, right?

You "can't bring yourself to care" if someone buys a recast, but you DO care the second someone buys a recast...? That doesn't pan out. You'll have to choose one or the other.

The passivity behind the people who "can't bring themselves to care" just...I would say it baffles me, but I'm too cynical for that.

ETA re: The Raven's comment --I don't think there's going to be a massive flood of misrepresented recasts on the market thanks to a wave of people dying or anything. Education is the key, and honestly, I would think that in the case of a recast owner passing away and someone selling off their property, the odds are probably pretty good the people selling them won't even know what they are, much less know enough details to pass them off as the actual thing. Yes, it's a potential issue, but I honestly don't think it's a HUGE potential issue, especially if we as a hobby make education a priority for the sake of future purchasers. Otherwise we run the risk of spawning even more secondhand market paranoia, and that is not cool.

 

It may not be a huge issue but it can still cause problems in the hobby. And what I was saying was more along the lines of, someone passed on, they found one of these dolls in the deceased's possessions, found mention of what it was and possibly maybe a reference to a company, googled it, thought it was the real thing, then put it up for sale. Not necessarily going to happen but it could. And also if someone didnt know what they were, sold it in a garage sale, and someone who KNEW what they were bought it because they thought it was the real thing, they would obviously not know it was a recast. Or someone could find it, presume it is a BJD [because of the jointing], google it etc., presume it is a real doll especially if they dont really know much about recasts, and then maybe sell it again down the line for the actual price, etc. It can still be an issue when you think about it. Whether or not it's going to be a huge issue is a different story. The fact we even have to worry about this is ridiculous anyway. If there werent recasts, this wouldnt even be an issue.

 

Can anyone tell me how to check the number on a Volks headplate? I did a search, but it came up with thousands of hits, well at least hundreds....

 

Could you explain a little more about what you want to check? Do you mean you want to know how to decode the dates and other markings on a Volks headplate? I know I've seen threads about that--let me do a little searching and see what I can find.

Before that, though, one thing to be aware of (and you may already know this, so please bear with me if I'm repeating old news!) is that the markings on Volks headplates aren't individual serial numbers. They indicate the date, location, and/or event at which the doll's edition was released.

Here you go: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?423436-Decode-Volks-Headplates

 

Someone very familiar with the company sculpts would know. One of the signs they tell you to look out for with recasts is shrinkage. Since the recast isn't cast from the original mold it's going to be smaller than a legitimate doll. There are blogs out there comparing recasts and legit dolls for reference. Bad ones will have bad resin quality as well.

 

Thank you for the thread, it told me when mine was made and that was really what I wanted! I couldn't remember what was what. As far as determining counterfeits, it would be so much easier with a legit doll to compare to. But that isn't always available, especially to us newbies without the experience to determine anyway.

I have a perfume collection too and they started selling fake Chanel no. 5 in the twenties! I have seen fake vintage bottles on ebay, quite old ones. I have to remember if it is too good to be true then....

 

As much as I don't like recasts, I find the bullying aspect far more appalling than the illegitimate dolls themselves. Some groups can be very harsh and are quick to not only ban someone, but to post their name on online lists so other sites ban them as well. I know someone who had a personal disagreement with someone else in the hobby, and this other person started making false recast accusations to retaliate. Fortunately she was eventually able to clear her name and get back on most of the groups, but her name is still on a couple of the lists.

I'm also curious of how much needs to be copied in order for it to be considered a recast. I have wanted to make my own fantasy parts (lower leg and feet). Would making a clay duplicate of the outside of the top joint of a leg piece to get the joint to fit into the upper leg then sculpting the rest of the limb yourself be considered a recast? What about making a clay copy of a torso piece, carving it to look like a cage (to the extent it would be unrecognizable except for the fit of the joints), then casting the modified piece in resin? What if instead of making a separate mold, you pushed the clay into the other half of the joint to get the fit? What if you sculpted these pieces freehand but they turned out well enough that it could be mistaken for something where you directly copied the joint areas? Yes, you could buy a second body, cut off the ends of the joints, but you would have to ruin a whole body to use maybe an inch or two, would have much less time to sculpt your design in milliput, or would have structural issues from joining the sawed off joint to the rest of the piece..I've stayed away from a lot of mod projects because I worry that they are too close to recast territory. Actually until now I've stayed away from even talking about these ideas. Maybe I'm an unusual case, but I wonder if one consequence of the recasting issue is that fear of being labeled a recaster keeps people away from creating their own option parts, and keeps people away from even asking if certain mods are ok or not?

 

Just thought I'd post this here - from jpopdolls.
http://www.jpopdolls.net/images/letterfrommatthew.jpg
Quite interesting read.

 

St. James, thank you for your posts...
I never supported recasts, but it is the first time I think about the issues you mentioned...

It is interesting, even though I don't live in the USA...

 

I recently stumbled on a YouTube box-opening video, in which the video title explicitly states the dolls are recasts. Publicly broadcasting that you bought a bootleg ... wow. No shame, all entitlement. I don't have any wise, overarching point to make, but I find seeking out and buying recasts to be pretty repulsive, aaaaaand the person in the YouTube video has publicly identified herself, so others can beware if she tries to sell the dolls on the Marketplace.

 

Clanging Brass Balls + Very Little Brain.

Well, yes. It works like that. If someone doesn't want to be banned from a site that doesn't support art theft, then they shouldn't buy recasts. If you are actually a witch, you're supposed to be afraid of witch-hunts.

 

the consequence of copied dolls is simple and has probably been stated before. doll artists, even in companies like soom or luts, work off an income generated by their dolls. the money also goes into making molds, sculpting materials, and i'm guessing the ability to create and produce new doll concepts. while recasters might claim that they aren't hurting the companies at all, they are. the tolerance for recasts will tempt more people, because hey it's my money, and only i will enjoy the doll so who cares!

bjds are expensive, this has never been a cheap hobby. if you don't want to buy in and support the people who create the original molds you get recasts from, then somewhere down the line they won't be able to make anymore. recasting weakens the community and causes distrust. the fact that people brag about recasting makes me sick to my stomach. why are you proud of hurting artists and supporting theft? seriously. /:

 

I am new to the BJD world, but I can add something : Nearly a decade ago, I bought from my usual manga store an exclusive Lady Oscar resin figurine (Rose of Versailles) that was SUPPOSEDLY from Japan. Back then, I didn't know what a bootleg was, or that China was making cheap copies of everything. My seller sold me the figurine, explaining that it was a one time deal, and that if I didn't want it, many other customers were willing to pay a lot more for it. Needless to say I bought it and regret it now. Yup, it was a cheap China bootleg, and eventually (within a few years), its legs started bending. Now the figurine is standing at an awful 30° angle. It is not possible to fix this.

I read of this forum that there are differences between a true doll and a recast doll. I am hoping those differences are as obvious as the disastrous figurine I have (now hidden in a box in my basement). Otherwise, it must be difficult to purchase from retailers and EBay, etc.

Thank you for this thread, by the way, I find all this information helpful.

 

Sashimi - Right on. Philosophically speaking one way to test your ideas is to think about whether you would want them to be a universal rule that everyone would follow. One example a teacher gave me was what would happen if I write a bad check for economic benefit. If I applied the test then I would have to think about what would happen if my rule was universal. Well, everyone would be writing bad checks and the banks would stop allowing people to write checks and I would lose my economic benefit. The same with recasts, some people say they don't care but if everyone bought recasts the original manufacturers would go out of business and then, no dolls. If recasters have the abilities to make dolls they should develop their own sculpts and own businesses and then they would get the economic benefit of selling dolls. The same applies to buyers. There are dolls at every price point. If you can't or don't want to layaway for a premium doll then buy a cheaper one or a used one. There are plenty of options to positively engage in this activity no matter what your economic status. Those who "have to have" that sculpt should face the same test, if there were no limited dolls then the special quality of that LE doll would be lost. It's sad that so few people think of their actions in the world as being part of a community and also defining themselves as a human being. Perhaps it's a result of our capitalist society but too often we want to fulfill our desires no matter what the cost to the community or to that definition of ourselves as individuals. I personally want to be a good person in the world and to define myself in the community as someone who understands and abides by social standards. I might not agree with all standards but would need compelling reasons to violate them. The arguments that "I want what I want" and "it's not going to destroy the community" are not compelling. If that's good enough then you might as well steal it because hey, you want it, and feel entitled to have it. It's not likely to financially ruin someone so what's the harm, right? Or perhaps it seems different in that context. Most things start out small then snowball, so it's good to take a larger view of your actions.

 

Meansanity, Hello from Montreal! I'm sorry you had a bad experience It's one thing if a buyer deliberately makes a decision to buy a recast doll and it's another entirely when they are tricked into thinking it's the real deal.

I too am rather new to the BJD community as well and while I can understand why some might be tempted to go the recast route, it's not something I would do. It's like dollhausen said, if recasts became popular enough, they would eventually run the legitimate companies out of business and we wouldn't have new dolls

polyhymnia, I have to respectfully disagree with you, I think if people DO buy recasts, I would want them to be open about it. There's certainly a stigma involved with people buying recast dolls, that they're shady and attempting to scam other users on the secondhand market. Now this is just my opinion, but I think if someone was desperate enough to buy a recast doll, it probably means they REALLY want it for their collection (not to resell and scam others) and it's either because can't afford or simply cannot find a legitimate doll for sale.

 

Arekushia wrote: "I have to respectfully disagree with you, I think if people DO buy recasts, I would want them to be open about it. There's certainly a stigma involved with people buying recast dolls, that they're shady and attempting to scam other users on the secondhand market. Now this is just my opinion, but I think if someone was desperate enough to buy a recast doll, it probably means they REALLY want it for their collection (not to resell and scam others) and it's either because can't afford or simply cannot find a legitimate doll for sale."

Okay, then ... how about if they're desperate enough to steal a doll? That they REALLY want for their collection, etc.?

I find nothing okay about seeking out and knowingly buying recasts. It's a shifty act, and a big fat eff-you to the legitimate creator of the original doll. In the case of the person with the box-opening video, the one positive side to her gloating about it on record is that she's basically put a big fat neon sign on herself that says "I'm a Horse's Ass Who Supports Art Theft and I Don't Care Who Knows It!!!".

Which, in it's own way, is a fine public service for the rest of us. Those clanging brass balls, as JennyNemesis so aptly put it, will be heard faaaaaaaaaaaaaar and wide!

 

Knowingly importing recast dolls to the United States is a crime. If the poster of that video lives in the US.... she just publicized a confession of a crime. That's... odd.

 

I don't attach that particular stigma to people who buy recasts. By definition a stigma can be wrongly applied because it is a matter of perception. I do not think that we are wrong to shut recast owners out of the hobby, but I would not do it because they are shady and may scam users on the secondhand market, I would do it because they are selfish to the point of violating the law for their own gratification, and they have already scammed the dollmakers on the firsthand market.

I also do not believe that recast buyers purchase recasts out of desperation. While there may occasionally be some reckless fury involved in a doll purchase, this is hardly the norm. I believe they purchase them because they have the means, the motive and the opportunity. Copyright violation and the purchase of counterfeit goods are both perfect illustrations of Routine Activity Theory.