The consequences of copied dolls

I got curious about these recast owner videos and looked some up on youtube. There are more than one of them on there and all of them show their faces. Now I didnt check to see if they mentioned their names or anything, but they all seem to clearly be from the US [besides one that didnt talk in the video so could be from somewhere else]. I'm rather shocked that youtube has not deleted the vids or banned them since they are huge on copyright violation for tv shows and music yet when it comes to counterfeit items they are allowing these videos to be posted. Also... BJDs are not the only recast vids I found. I also found "how to" vids on recasting models etc. etc.

I really cant believe these people are that stupid to show their faces and outright say they collect recasts on video when clearly it is illegal O.o... they are just setting themselves up to deal with being sued by the legitimate companies and or getting arrested. It's rather funny to me too that they do this but at the same time, it makes it easier for me later down the road because now I know who not to buy anything from. A couple of the vids I watched actually had people in them saying they would laugh at legit doll owners if they said rude comments about owning recasts or telling them that it's wrong. They even said they would show it to their significant others, have a good laugh, and then delete it. This is disgusting to me. I understand that everyone makes their own choices and we really cant do anything about it unless they decide on their own to do what is right, but having the nerve to laugh about it? wth? It's not funny in the least and laughing at those who have a sense of morality and decency is just plain rude even if they did comment or post rude things to your youtube video about recasts. I dont support bullying at all, dont get me wrong, but I seriously cant understand what can make you buy something and never think about how it is effecting the original artists.

I saw something about how this one girl bought a recast of something that the company didnt produce [a tan pong pong from FL] because she couldnt get it in tan from the company. She claimed that since the company wasnt producing it, they werent losing money. wtf. Actually they ARE losing money because instead of being able to release a tan pong pong later down the road they now have an issue with recasters selling tan pong pongs for dirt cheap and lose out on the money they would have gained from those people if they had bought from FL when and if the tan pong pong was released etc. etc. I also know that a lot of people say "no recast of basics" but "okay for limiteds" which I dont understand at all either. I get that you want this limited and they are in short supply and you might never find one, but that does not give you the right to make or buy a recast of said doll just because you cant find one to buy. I was shaking my head when I saw a vid on youtube of some lady that bought a recast of a cuprit vesuvia because when she opened it the neck hole was not drilled out so she was going to have to do it herself. There she was sitting there going "oh I've never modded a doll before but... it cant be too hard" but at the same time making a face like "OMG why isnt there a hole here?" and also whining about how her tail was floppy and sharp on the edges. Well that's what you get when you buy a recast, poor quality and unfinished pieces.

 

Perhaps it is because I am new but I'm under the impression that the criminals are the ones doing the recasting. Due to some background knowledge in philately, I do know that it is legal to own AND sell/buy counterfeit stamps as long as they are not represented as the real stamps AND as long as they are not counterfeit American stamps. People collect them, actually experts have some of the best collections since they're used as references to validate real stamps.

(After some reflection, I wanted to post again, in the future should I "edit" my previous post or is it alright to made a new one?)

Could someone direct me to where I can read up on the laws that would apply specific to the recasting issue? If not for Canada the USA will do fine.

Also, do the legitimate companies ever take action against recasters? I would love to read up on cases.

 

I think recasts are horrible and would never ever want to support that. BJD recasts arnt like regular bootlegs in my opinion its not really mass produced but they are hand casted dolls. The creativity time and materials they put in making these dolls pays for there company income and artists. You also have to think about it as well ball jointed dolls is an expensive hobby so they have exclusive clients. Not everyone is a BJD collector, sure there is doll collectors out there but not all exclusive to the BJD hobby. The BJD companies rely on there customers and recasts are just killing off that company by customers buying recasts. Its sad because i was curious if people actually supported recasts i tend to be a bit curious about everything but theres a huge community on it who think its right to buy recasts. The way they stated there statement was that no one could get rid of recast buyers and they where ultimately growing as a community it was very disgusting to read and saddens me to see that people disgrace art like that....They also said they where supporting the company because buying the recasts they can say "I have a fairyland doll or luts doll" personally i dont find this a means of advertising or supporting i find this negative outcome for the company.

 

Here's that letter from JPopDolls's lawyer again, reposted from the previous page. I think it should be reposted on every single page of this thread, so that new people in the discussion can be enlightened, others can stop claiming ignorance, and certain others can stop trying to claim that manufacturing, selling, AND owning counterfeit goods isn't a crime because it's the same thing as buying generic Chex Mix.

http://www.jpopdolls.net/images/letterfrommatthew.jpg

This is specific to US law. However, it couldn't be clearer. The criminals are the ones doing the recasting-- AND the ones doing the selling-- AND the ones doing the buying (and then loudly honking their short-bus horns live on YouTube).

There is even potential liability to those who merely encourage recasters & foster an environment in which their crimes can be more easily committed (any so-called 'recast-friendly' site, forum, etc.).

Good reading.

ETA:

Awww, jeez, lady, you're breaking my heart.

As Bugs Bunny would say: "Wotta maroon."

 

A while back some a** really really wanted a decent stereo for his car. Instead of buying one legitimately, he picked up a rock and smashed the back window out of my Jeep. Then tore my stereo out of the dashboard using what looked like a sledge hammer, judging by the pieces of my car left all over it's floor (I have a different Jeep now but yes, I'm still bitter). If he decided to sell that stereo, and some other a** bought it, that's not legal either. Just because you want something does not mean you should just take it from someone else.

_____________

Between the law and the fact that as an artist I totally get how much art theft hurts so many people involved, I have no sympathy for people who willingly buy recasts because they really want that doll (not to mention, they obviously don't really want that doll, because what they bought isn't that doll, just a cheap knockoff). They can whine about how horrible they're treated all they want, it's their own fault and I want no part of their fakes or them.
Right now there is a website out there allowing the free download of artists art without their knowledge or permission. My art is on it and there is nothing I can do about it. You know how that feels? like I've been violated. The same way I felt when my car was broken into. I can imagine how the artists and companies who have to sit back and watch people support art theft by buying illegal recasts feel. They see this happening and know that there are people who would rather support thieves and hand their money over to thieves than to the people who pour their hearts and souls into their art. That just sucks.

And as this is a thread about consequences, not too long ago I stumbled on someone's blog where they posted about a recast of a Soom Monthly they'd just gotten. It happened to be the one SM I regret missing out on. It was kind of a rarity, not one found on the second hand market often, and when it was it was a price I wasn't really willing to pay.
Recently this doll has been showing up A LOT. I mean, there were several of them yesterday when I looked, all of them way cheaper than they were a year or so ago. This has me really freaked out...I have absolutely NO proof that any of them are recasts, but that's where my mind goes every time I see one. So no way will I chance buying one even though I'd love to have it, it's not worth the risk. I know I'm not the only one worried about ending up with one by accident, and I know that selling is getting harder every day - no one will be able to convince me at this point that the second-hand market isn't hurting already from the recast mess, look at all the people who stated they'll flatly refuse to buy a doll without a COA. Now look at all the dolls for sale that don't have one! Who is going to buy them? And if they're not getting bought, how do sellers put their money back into the doll hobby?

Now that I've written a book (sorry^^', I don't post in these threads because I get all soapboxy) here's my disclaimer: Accidents happen however, and if a fake is bought accidentally, it's a world of difference. You can't persecute someone for doing something wrong if they honestly didn't know they were doing it....accidentally buying a recast puts them in with the rest of the victims as far as I can see, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

Amen. The world does not owe you, or me, or anybody, a doll. If you can't obtain one ethically, accept your disappointment and move on.

Edited to add:

VampireAngel13, I really appreciate your "book". You address the issue as an artist whose work has been appropriated (read: stolen), and as a hobbyist who can't trust the authenticity of a piece that you'd really like to own. In each instance, one of the biggest consequences is the eroding of trust - the artist can't trust that her or his work isn't going to be ripped off, the consumer can't trust the second-hand market because it's become diluted with recasts.

I wish the people who buy recasts would understand that they are essentially fouling their own (and our) nests.

 

sorry to come in again but this is seriously one of the laziest excuses i've heard so far. many people have dyed, airbrushed, and soaked them in tea to get them to a different color. in fact sicktress spray painted their soom dia head to achieve the tan skin they wanted. even more frustrating, if this person had waited i believe FL is offering tan skin for a limited time now. /:

 

Not that I agree with recasts and I am not arguing with the law but I am curious about dolls created in Korea. Korea I was told doesn't have legal agreements with any other country and so the legality for buying from Korea would not be illegal. Does anyone know information about this?

 

JennyNemesis, Thanks for the link, I've read it. Wouldn't the copyright being infringed upon need to be filed in the United States in order to be protected under the Act? Do legitimate foreign companies copyright their works in other countries?

VampireAngel13, I understand your analogy, perhaps some feel differently because the recast consumer isn't the one directly breaking into your car window and they're still paying for the radio. The idea of "stealing" can seem far away when you're not actually the one doing the stealing first hand.

When I first started collecting and I learned of recasts, I saw both people and companies alike being upfront about their products being recasts, I thought it was just a personal decision people made, whether or not to buy them and seek them out. It's strange how both buyers and companies alike would incriminate themselves, which is why I was under the impression that as long as the doll being sold wasn't being represented as the real deal, it was fine to buy and own. I also never questioned it because in my other hobby of philately, as I mentioned in a previous post, non-American counterfeit stamps are collected, bought and sold freely.

 

Both North and South Korea are party to the Berne Convention. South Korea also participates in several other international copyright agreements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements

 

For me the issue boils down to the general disrespect shown to the sculptors and tiny companies who create the dolls.The attitude that everyone is an artist and the faceup that looks like you painted it with a stick or used dirty sock dress is way more art than the blank doll feeds the whole its okay to rip off doll companies.Its bs and anyone buying recasts should try sculpting a doll.Comparing bootlegs of billion dollar fashion bags and shoes with ripping off a company with 4 employees and impacting their ability to feed themselves is really not the same thing.Recast owners can list all the reasons why they buy them but in the end it's greed and sketchy morals so just leave it at that.It is the justifying that drives me bonkers.

 

Recast buyers being open and upfront is a double edged sword. On one hand, you know who to avoid. However, my concern over this openess is that it helps make the activity seem ok and like a normal part of the hobby -- especially when it comes to new hobbyists that aren't necessarily as aware of all the issues surrounding recasting. I hadn't been nearly as active in the on-line dolly world over the past year and a half or so, and I was still seeing a disturbing amount of support for buying recasts. The simple act of buying a recast for one's own enjoyment *is* shady behavior -- it has reprocussions for the hobby as a whole even if the owner never tries to scam someone on the secondary market.

 

I know :/ You can get a littlefee and a pukifee pongpong in a la carte right now in tan skin :/ Although FL is not offering tan for some of their sculpts so I do suspect that people will probably get upset if they cant get those sculpts in tan. But it looks like it is only certain minifee sculpts that are like this.

 

Taco, you make great points. Thanks for the insight.

 

Recast dolls are contraband. Simple as that. Those who obtain them are guilty....even if having done so in error. Ignorance of a law is not a reason to escape the law...in the US anyway.

 

I know what you mean. The tan skin is limited in time and certain sculpts. But I don't see it as an excuse to buy from a recaster who is willing to produce the sculpt they want in tan. The point of these dolls is to customize them to your liking. Owners can learn dying techniques, painting, and how to sew clothes instead of doing it illegally. And besides, if they wait they will probably make the dolls they want in the colors they want. I remember people wanting one sculpt from FL in a bigger size and guess what? That favorite sculpt in now available. The companies do listen to people's wants, you just might have to be patient. And saying you didn't have the money at the time a limited sculpt was offered, so now you are buying a recast is B.S. I was 3 years behind on a sculpt I fell in love with. I searched the DOA MP for it and put up a "Want to Buy" thread, and was able to find and buy it. If your doll is meant to be, then it's meant to be. No need to support thieves with all kinds of excuses!

 

How is someone guilty if they unknowingly have bought a recast doll? There are some people that are not in the hobby or may not know that much about BJDs and could have came across a doll on ebay and thought hey thats cool and buys it, they aren't going to be thinking or asking if its a recast. Heck I didn't even know about recasts until probably a good year or two into the hobby myself. I've bought most of my dolls direct or here on the MP so I assume all mine are legit. I think I've only bought a few on ebay (obitsu and a DD) so I'm pretty sure both are legit since I don't believe anyone recast vinyl dolls? And like I said those were bought way before I knew about recasts. That doesn't make me ignorant about recasts its just that I never ran across any posts about them or anything. Seems like probably in the last year/year and a half I see all kinds of groups on FB and such and more talk about it. I'm much more careful with ebay purchases now that I know this and ask all the questions I need to, but in the end if that person is lying how do you really know for sure if your getting something legit. Its great that there is a lot of information out there for newcomers now about recasts and maybe that will help people be more responsible with their purchases.

 

I'm all for information and glad more people are getting out the word to the uninformed. And while I certainly would feel bad for someone who unknowingly bought a recast...they still are guilty of purchasing an illegal product. And if anyone is spending hundreds of dollars on a purchase I hope they do a little research into what they are buying. Will it stop some from being duped by recasters who lie about their product? Unfortunately no...there are criminal people out there...but hopefully the more informed a consumer is the less likely they will get a recast in error.

edited to add: Even reputable pawn shops won't sell 'stolen' items....if they feel an item has been stolen, they won't put it in their shop so some unknowing person buys it.

 

Being active in the Blythe, My Little Pony and other fashion doll hobby, I find it interesting that most hobbies accept bootlegs/Knockoffs/recasts as part of the hobby. I've only ever known the BJD groups to have such conflicting views on a topic that seems to be sort of widely accepted in other hobbies.

Have I bought bootleg DVDs from some guy with a backpack for $3? Yes, but the quality was always horrid.
Have I ever bought a fake designer bag? I've bought bags that could be said to strongly resemble but not be a direct copy.
Do I enjoy my fake Ddung doll keychains I bought in Seoul for 2,000 won? Very much so.

edit b/c I hit the post button too soon...

Yes, I have knowingly bought knock off items from places like Dollar General and mom and pop places in the US.



Anyway, without arguing whether or not these dolls are "art" and protected under copy write, until there are very universal laws about recasts or copies, I really don't see there being major changes in the recast/copy attitudes, which are not as Black and White as they may seem.

 

hmmm it does seem like there are a lot of grey areas when you think about it like that..Its not always black and white.