The consequences of copied dolls

To put it into perspective:

Volks, the largest company in the world that produces BJDs, has 8 stores in Japan, 1 store in the US. 6 of the Japanese stores also sell model kits and other toys produced by Volks. They employ a total of 320 employees. Some of those employees produce model kits and other toys. Some man the stores.

Contrast that with Reliable Manufacturing in my home town. Never heard of them? Not surprised. Like Volks, they create products for a limited market. Yet they employ more people than all of Volks, they ship to more customers, and they have no stores to man.

 

Don't forget, they also have 1 store in South Korea. I also heard from a Volks employee in Tenshi no Sato that they might open a store in Singapore and China as well.

 

The point still stands that Volks is not a gigantic multinational corporation that can deal with a hit on their profits easily. More stores means more overheads and they're a luxury hobby manufacturer not a supermarket that people need to visit weekly. Supermarkets can be loss-leaders and sell books and toys etc... at a hugely discounted price because they know they will sell larger amounts of the product if the prices are low. With a hobby shop, particularly one that manufactures custom items, the profit margin is far slimmer because they sell things that people like but don't necessarily need - when people are struggling to make ends meet, it's the frivolous stuff that has to go out of the window first to save money to afford rent/mortgage, food, transport and energy bills.

Opening a store in China may help against the recasting problem - if a Volks store is based in China and paying taxes there they may have more weight to lean on the Chinese authorities to protect their brand.

 

I was just listing out what I have heard from a staff (Not saying they are big). Again, I know they aren't TOO big. <.< I wasn't even trying to say it is as big as apple at all...

This. I like how you explained it here. I think it is same with other hobby brands.

It MIGHT help against the recast problem if they open a store in China. /Offtopic I don't mean to be offensive, but considering China as they are communist country some people can still get around and make possible recasts even if there is a store there...I don't think I can trust the law TOO MUCH there. /offtopic

 

Uh - making and selling recasts, imho, is purely capitalist and doesn't have anything to do with communism ... Where there's money to be made, whether legally or illegally, someone will go and try get that money for themselves before someone else does.

 

I don't know if this topic has dozed off a bit over the holidays but it has certainly come alive for me again yesterday. I hope it is not out of line to talk openly about an issue with recasts and ebay here (apologies to the mods if it is) but as this is general discussion it seems a fair place to air this:

I am in the UK and a friend drew my attention to 4 listings by one member (UK Ebay is a TINY marketplace for dolls and BJD in particular so this is a big deal) of recast BJD, Mini-fee, Soom, Dollstown and Supia. My friend and I both reported them to Ebay and shortly after 3 of the 4 listings were taken down, only to be relisted again an hour or so later. Today another member in another part of the country has listed a Recast Unoa. They have also been reported as breaking ebay policies but nothing has happened as yet. This will spread like wildfire unless these listings are stopped by Ebay itself. It has long been a marketplace where a doll buyer should tread with caution and to my mind this is probably a huge victory for the recast crowd who now imagine that Ebay is legitimising their illegal trade.

I checked Ebays own policies which clearly state:

• The sale of unauthorised replica and counterfeit items is illegal and against our policies.
• Sellers who aren't sure of the legality or authenticity of their items can't sell those items on eBay.
• This policy helps protect buyers from purchasing illegal merchandise and helps intellectual property rights owners protect their rights.

Ebay might like to word that as though it is their decision but it is simply the law. If Ebay do not remove these listing then they are allowing it to descend into an open marketplace for stolen goods. Theft is a black and white issue, those who come up with all sorts of convoluted arguments for why they are pro-recast are simply saying that they think themselves to be above the laws of society. There is no justification.

I do think that ebay's ridiculously over simplified reporting system is not helping, this is a small niche hobby and they maybe do not understand what a recast is or that they squarely fall under their own prohibited goods. Is there nothing that Den of Angels as a community can do to try and communicate with Ebay directly to educate them as to why this issue is so damaging to this small hobby?

 

Very true about eBay, and there are still bootlegs out the ear on that site (my own experience was buying enamel Sailor Moon pins, and getting bootleg instead). And the difference between a recast doll and a bootleg DG purse is the brand recognition. Many people may not know what a Volks or a Luts is supposed to look like, or they may just think it's another toy, and not really care. There's only so much a company like eBay can (or be willing to) do about recasts. The sellers aren't making DVD copies of The Amazing Spider-Man, a movie that has the backing of Sony and could likely end up getting sued by a larger corporation. The dolls are owned by companies in another country that are on a much smaller scale.

In short, if you find a seller on eBay is selling a recast, alert the seller first (they may honestly not know-- there was a seller on eBay who had purchased what ended up being stolen dolls from an estate sale, and tried their hardest to work with the member on here to right the wrong) and if nothing comes of it, alert eBay. It sucks, I know, but there's not really a way to stamp it all out, as much as we would like.

 

The Ebay sellers I am talking about today know they are recast because they are selling them as recast and pointing out how much money you can save by buying their recast over a company doll. It is blatant and breaking every rule that Ebay sets up to police itself so why have Ebay not removed them and told the sellers that they are not allowed to list such items?

 

The seller of the recast Unoa knows exactly what they're doing. I reported that one to ebay two days ago and also wrote to the seller letting him/her know that recasts are illegal. Got an answer back that made me go "whoa! getroffene Hunde bellen!" (which is a German saying, basically can be translated as "if the cap fits, wear it" or "the pot calling the kettle black" - something along those lines) and when I just checked that seller's items, eh voilá, that recast Unoa's up for sale again! So I'm gonna report that item again. Guess the seller's gonna report me for harrassment if I do but I don't care. Ebay's going down the drain fast anyways.

 

There was also someone who made a great point on tumblr which I haven't seen here (though it might have been brought up, and I overlooked it). So, most people I've met in the doll hobby know that Dollzone started out as a recast company. If recasting had been as "accepted" then as it is now (a recast survey on tumblr, with a little over 500 BJD-people answering, showed that only about 50% is anti-recast, and though 500 can't speak for the whole community, the survey can likely be used as an indicator), and possible to make a living off, do you think Dollzone would have even started making their own dolls? I don't really think so. Which means we wouldn't have all the unique dolls Dollzone and probably then also Doll Chateau make today. And also, if the recasters couldn't make money off recasts, they might possibly have hired sculptors to make their own dolls.
That is a rather selfish point of course, but if you look at it that way, recast dolls doesn't only deprive artists of their rightful money and cause a certain amount of distrust in the second-hand market, but they also possibly have an impact on the diversity of dolls to choose from. Which would then also be another sad consequence of recasts.

 

Khell, I will be reporting the Unoa person and the member with 4 recasts for sale again today, too, even though Ebay allow them to put the listings back up and yes I would not be surprised if I get told off for reporting them again by Ebay.

WinonaFlammery: Your point is sound and we are heading into a world of ever-decresing circles, more artists will stop sculpting dolls because they will become so demotivated by the fact that they are going to get ripped off, and by the greed of the entitled who openly support this theft. Then all we will be left with are those of us who own legit dolls and will never sell because we can't trust anything we buy in the future to not be a recast... and a bunch of recast buyers who will whinge about the ever decreasing quality of the recasts which will have to be taken from casts of cast of moulds that long ago wore out... because No-One will be sculpting or creating anymore... end of hobby

I am also so fed up of comments by recast supporters that say it is no worse than illegally downloading films, games, music... then turn round and call others hypocrites because they simply cannot believe that everyone else isn't doing the same. Talk about judging others by their own low standards!

 

Well, I don't download films, music, etc illegally either. Cos I think that if something's good enough for me to like it and really want it then it's good enough for me to pay for it. And support the artists, actors, directors, programmers, etc. who put a hell of a lot of work into making that game, movie, album that I like so much. (Yes, I do listen to stuff on Youtube but about 50% is stuff that I own and the other 50% is stuff that I end up buying more often than not.) Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, the hypocrites are the people who ramble on about how much they like X artist or Y sculpt but then, prefer to get an illegal download or recast instead of the real thing. True fans don't do that. They don't deprive the artists, sculptors, directors, actors, etc. they love and respect of their livelyhood.

I've heard plenty of pro-recast "arguments" during the past few months but I still gotta meet with one that makes any sense to me or doesn't boil down to that very selfish attitude of "I want it, I'm entitled to it, I want it now, and for cheap".

 

Exactly! I was trying to explain this to my nephew a few weeks back, he always has the latest film before it gets to the cinema and the latest album before it is available to buy, all bootlegged. He is a massive Lady Gaga fan and was saying how cool it would be to meet her, that he is her number one fan. I said, yes, then you can tell her how you have never BOUGHT a single one of her CDs or Videos, she will love that! I just cannot understand the mind set at all.

I have heard the justification so often that Person X is a student, they have so little money but they absolutely love this expensive doll by Volks or whoever. So far I am on the same wavelength, I have also been a student on low income and really, really wanted some thing expensive so bad it almost physically hurt. My solution was to juggle study and part time jobs and save, and save, to get the legit thing I wanted, which was really cherished and loved and kept for a ver long time. Person X wants this doll, so bad they will put aside less than half the money (STILL a LOT of money for someone who is so POOR!) and go and buy a recast of the doll they love so much... do they REALLY love that doll? Or was it a whim, will it turn up for sale on Ebay shortly because now something else has caught their eye. So their "poor me" justification is a bit flimsy!

We have all bought and then resold legit dolls, (Lord knows I am guilty of the revolving doll door policy at times) but I have a feeling you think about it a lot more carefully before spending when you have to pay full price.

 

If someone wants a particular doll badly enough, save up for it.

Being a poor student is no excuse. When I was a student, I had a huge ($$$$) collection of hobby gaming supplies, and always found the money if there was something I needed for a particular game. If someone isn't willing to save up, they must not want it badly enough.

 

I agree, how much better is that satisfaction of getting something you really want after you worked hard to save up for it and pay for it legitimately. It feels so much better than the tiny little guilt hovering over that purchase forever that it's not actually the real thing. Then, feeling crappy when someone finally calls you out on it because they could tell... long term I am not sure I can fall in love with a recast because I'd constantly be looking for mistakes or differences in other people's online photos.... i would always KNOW....

 

Being a poor student... I am going for less expensive dolls now and saving for more expensive dolls later. I'm putting a lot of effort into wardrobe and accessories though. I think sometimes it's just not the right time to be spending money you don't have. Better to save up for the real thing and support the stores that carry them.

 

Rorigan, exactly! But try explaining to someone who's been raised in a way so that they always got what they wanted AT ONCE and never learned to be patient. And was raised to think that, whatever they want, they're entitled to it and probably never heard "No, you can't have that" in their entire life.

 

Someone like that also probably has absolutely no concept of what it really means to be poor, since -- at least in my experience -- a lot of being poor is NOT being able to have what you want at once without any wait or patience. Economics doesn't give you that option; if you want something, you HAVE to save, you HAVE to budget. It is what it is.

 

I've got a good one...

30 pages of a 6 year long conversation as a consequence.

I think THE BEST way of dealing with all the recasting non-sense is as simple as NOT buying one. Period. Everything else, regardless of who well intended or worded is just that...words.
Let the DOA mods take care of the site, like they have for how many years...
And as consumers, like in every other market speak with/without your money.

 

A nice idea... but also a vast over-simplification, for reasons that have previously been brought up in this thread. <_<