The consequences of copied dolls

Now this could finally be a serious reason to boycott Ebay entirely. Sure I have stuff to sell from time to time - not only BJD items, but also other things from former hobbies. But I think dealing with this matter in such a manner is simply not acceptable. Now I know that one person not using Ebay more or less won't hurt them, but perhaps it is a start...

 

ebay won't be in the least bit hurt if a few people boycott it. I personally have sold lots of dolls on ebay in the past and found it a great place to sell - so I'm quite horrified at the recent glut of recast dolls and heads for sale there, as it gives ebay sellers in general a bad name, and puts serious doll buyers off even looking for a doll on ebay.

what I do is simply compile a 'blacklist' of all the recast sellers I see on ebay - I have it on my desktop now. I would boycott any doll or accessories they sell, even a supposedly legitimate doll - hit the recast buyers where it hurts, and don't give them money to buy more recasts! I would not trust someone who is happy to buy recasts, even if they feel they are being 'honest' by declaring it as recast when they sell it - I would rather have no dealings with them.

 

Elve: that is going to be my policy too, I am keeping a list of all the members I see selling recasts and all the people who buy those dolls from them, that will be a list of people to avoid on Ebay. It is hard to know who they are on other forums but it's all I can do really. I did send an email to Dollstown about the DT18 body that was for sale, either it's been sold or taken down.

It's convenient for Ebay to have those clauses in their rules when the Copyright Owners are not English as First language speakers and also probably don't have time to keep a constant search on all the different Ebay sites.

 

I was beginning to think no one had noticed those dolls on Ebay UK ! I've pressed 'report' for them repeatedly and was bewildered as to why they were still available for sale - some recasts have even been sold. In the end I 'phoned up Ebay to report the items and was advised that my complaints would be forwarded to the relevant department. I even gave a reference to The Soom website where their notice explains the recast issue. Now I understand why nothing whatever has been done to remove these items. I hate to think of Ebay becoming a resource for recasters and the people who support what they do. It's an insult to the artists. Interestingly, I had an auction for a legitimate item ( a Louis Vuitton wallet ) removed as I was accused of selling a counterfeit item. As my item was genuine ( purchased in person at a branch of LV ) I don't see how anyone representing the company could mistake their own product for a fake and report it - which makes me suspicious of Ebay saying that only the original manufacturer could report a copyright violation. Could it be that the intellectual property rights of non- Western companies are a lower priority for Ebay ? It makes me ashamed if this should be so.

 

I don't know what they are thinking really. I also had a friend who had a lot of genuine designer bags which she came to sell on Ebay UK and each time she listed her 100% genuine Prada and Gucci bags she had the listings taken down. In the end she sold them privately. I have a feeling that Ebay has one rule for big companies they know have plenty of money for lawyers, and won't even take the risk of offending them, and another for small companies who are unlikely to come after them. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

Everyone always talks about how the companies are affected in regards to recasts but what about us!? The people who buy genuine dolls from legitimate companies and pay quite a bit. THEN I stumble across a company selling the same sculpt (recast) for a fraction of the price!

Makes me really mad. I don't think people who aren't willing to save up (like I did) for a legitimate doll should be able to have one at all.

 

What about those who accidentally bought recasts?

 

Accidents happen. It's the "actively seeking recasts" that bother me.

 

"Actively seeking recasts" increases the odds of "accidentally bought a recast". It all goes together, unfortunately.

 

I think that a person who is completely uneducated about the BJD hobby, accidentally buys a recast and then properly educates themselves is one thing. Someone who accidentally buys a recast, enjoys it and then continually buys more is another.

 

The financial consequences are non-existent IF the recast you buy was a doll that you would never buy in the first place from the legitimate company. For example, you look and say "WHOA, a 1500 doll? I will never pay for that!" then there is no lost income because you weren't ever a potential customer.

 

wow that's really interesting about ebay and the designer handbags/purses! Talk about double standards

rather than viewing it in terms of 'the bjd company haven't lost any money' it should be viewed in terms of 'the recasters have MADE money' - Money in the recaster's bank account is going to fund illegal activity, so why would anyone want to put their money towards that? OK so I can't afford a Soom limited 1/3 doll, in which case my first thought is not 'how can I get one illegally for less money?' but rather 'so which dolls CAN I afford?' perhaps a Soom tiny, or a 1/3 doll from another company - and take my pick from them.

 

That still doesn't make it okay to buy recasts ... If you think a doll is too expensive to buy from the company - just don't buy it. But don't go out there and buy a recast and go all "Oh, but the company's not losing any money from me since I never EVER would have bought it from them at the original price." Really, what kind of twisted logic is that?

 

I really tried to understand the argument, but just couldn't. For me, the only way to more or less work this way would be to look around less expensive legit companies and see if any of them offers a similar sculpt. In the case of a limited fantasy doll, there is often a way to look for parts on the marketplace and to puzzle your dream doll together. May take some time, but for me it would be much more satisfying.

 

....................................what.

This is a ridiculously shoddy line of reasoning. No financial consequences if you wouldn't have bought the doll in the first place? Really? It's okay to buy a recast if you wouldn't have bought the doll initially? No no. Nooooooo no no no no no. There is still a financial consequence, and that consequence is the recaster made money off you, thereby giving them more reason to keep making recasts and defrauding companies. Who cares if you "never would have bought the doll in the first place from the legitimate company"? You still stole a sale from that legit company.

There is nothing about this argument that holds water.

 

There are several HUGE threads that go into great detail about this, but I will reiterate here because apparently it needs to be said AGAIN.

The financial consequences to the company are quite present, actually. No recaster ever makes just one copy. They want return on their investment, so they'll make as many copies as they can. Even if you had no intention of buying the legitimate doll, a number of other recast buyers probably did but took advantage of the fact that a recast existed. All of that revenue is going to the recast company instead.

If a recast from a particular company sells well, odds are good that the recasters will snag the next new doll from that company since that company's work made them a tidy profit. So not only do sales of the initial recast take income from the original artist, they also take future income. This reduces demand expressed directly to the company for a re-release or for any sculpts that are variations on a popular type. Dolls that are in high demand often get re-released by the company because customers let them know that there is interest. Customer demand was the only reason Soom started re-releasing Special Order versions of their Limited Monthly Dolls, this is why Volks releases second and third editions of popular limiteds, this is why Fairyland resurrected the Chic Lines. If recasters knock off a popular doll, the chance of that doll's re-release plummets.

The consequences of purchasing a recast cannot be oversimplified in linear fashion like this. No one exists in a vacuum. Doll companies are comprised of people who are working to make a living from their art. Any worker will become demotivated if treated poorly and she will start to wonder why she bothers if no one respects her efforts. This lack of respect is coming from people who a) think the artist's time and skill is not of monetary value b) think that artists don't have any emotional investment in their own work and c) think it's okay for someone to steal intellectual property. It doesn't matter if you buy a recast or not, at the point that you justify it for anyone and an artist reads your words, your lack of compassion has already added to the problem.

 

Well said St. James!
Bravo!

 

St. James, thumbs up for your post!

 

St James: A complicated argument condensed beautifully!

LACK OF RESPECT is the bottom line for me, not even questions of morality or legality. It is the sheer self-obsessed dumbness of a person who sees a beautiful sculpt and thinks the issue is all about the price tag, their complete lack of respect or regard for the damage they are doing to the artists who create those sculpts. That whole shoulder shrugging indifference of the recast buyer to the direct part they are playing in undermining the chances that artist has of making a living from their talent.

 

I totally agree that recast buyers would be taking away money from companies if they would have bought the doll if it wasn't available in recast form(POTENTIAL INCOME FOR COMPANY). That is why I specified recast buyers who would never buy a legitimate company doll(NO POTENTIAL INCOME FOR COMPANY). That specification still hold water. If those buyers were the only ones who bought recasts, it is my belief that this wouldn't be hurting companies financially. But, like you said, probably a large portion of recast buyers are potential customers. I also was talking specifically about the financial aspect of it. Obviously, copied artwork carries other potentially DEVASTATING consequences that you have touched on, which I fully agree with. I've had my artwork(multiple) stolen. As much as I try not to, I see it as a personal offense and it lowers moral. There is no right and wrong, but there do exist actions that cause harm. So we should all strive to do the least amount of harm possible. So you can tell me I lack compassion, when the truth of the matter is that I was just stating some of my thoughts on the matter, which I did not see mentioned before in this thread. To suggest that my comment adds to this problem is laughable, frankly. *shrug*