The consequences of copied dolls

I have the feeling as many people are rather self centered it might be a better idea to talk about the lower quality of the recasts and the issues a buyer will have to face with those dolls. I always have the feeling that the emphasis of the recast discussion is on the impact on the companies,which indeed not wrong, but sadly most people do not seem to care for it... But if people will see that these dolls will also affect themselves they might think diffrently. Like rather toxic low quality resin, the lower quality of the doll itself. Maybe even compare company doll with the bootleg of the doll in photos. Show that it is defenitely not the same. I just can't imagine those recasts to look and move the same because of the shrinking of the size... Compare yellowing and sturdiness of material. Maybe recasts smell badly? Show collectors what they really get for their money in the end.

Comparing really works rather well for the Anime figure collectors. I have not seen anyone even talking about purchasing a bootleg on the big collector sides like MFC. Most buy them in accident at the start when they still know nothing and than regret it afterwards LOL

 

Unfortunately, it's no longer true that recast bjds are low quality. If you try to use that as a point of discussion, the people interested in recasts will just look up stories from people who've bought recasts, see that the quality is fine and consistent, and then ignore anything else you have to say about recasts because you seem biased and uninformed. There are lots of comparisons of legit dolls to recast dolls floating around on Flickr, and it's easy to see that they are the same quality resin as legit dolls and have almost no shrinkage. The main difference is extra seamlines (and a few recasters even seem to sand those down for free) and messier hidden areas (inside hip joints and body joints, for instance), which someone willing to buy a recast probably won't care about. There apparently are recasters who use cheaper materials, but they also sell their recasts for less than other recasters, so people choose to buy from them knowing that.

Anime figures aren't a great comparison, because there's a much larger profit margin on recast BJDs, allowing recasters to buy high quality silicone and resin for casting and still make a profit.

Probably the biggest deterrent you can come up with along these lines is that recasters can have quite bad customer service. For instance, apparently some recasters will lie about whether they have a sculpt, send you a different sculpt from the same company, and then ignore you when you ask them to correct their 'mistake'. Unfortunately, there seem to be at least a couple of recasters who have realised that good customer service is important for people to trust them, so people buying recasts can feel a lot more confident now =/

Honestly, it's at the point where scaring people into avoiding recasts isn't the best option (unless you think the D.A.R.E program was successful and want to emulate it). People need to avoid recasts because buying recasts is morally wrong; because it hurts the artists who create the dolls; and because it damages the BJD hobby by making it harder to trust our fellow hobbyists.

 

Oh I see that sucks indeed... If there is almost no quality diffrence it will be hard to convince people >____<

Moral can just change people who care for the well being of doll companies. You might change some less informed collectors with it who haven't thought the consequence through but you won't get most of the people who collected recasts for a longer time... As a self centered person, why should I care for others if I can just give myself the kick? Guess fighting recasts is a bit like fighting wind mills >_________<

 

Indeed, there was never really any point to that argument, because the technology used in making copies was bound to improve.

The social consequences are the only avenue now. Recasts owners can abandon their poor choices and come back to a community where they can participate fully without any reason to feel defensive, or they can isolate themselves in a smaller social group that will always be shunned by the main component of the hobby.

New buyers have a choice: own legit dolls and only ever worry about how to pay for them or own recasts and wonder if there will be repercussions down the line: Will they be welcome at their local doll meets? Will they have access to the best doll marketplaces when they suddenly need to sell a doll? Will they have any forum or dealer support if they decide they want to sculpt and sell their own BJDs someday? There are recast owners who face these disadvantages because of choices they made earlier in their time as collectors, and now it's too late to take it back.

 

As I have already seen big groups of recast friendly collectors on FB, I think recast collectors have good opportunities to socialize and sell dolls... At least I was shocked to see how many people where in this kind of groups. And not all people are really super active in this hobby and want to socialize. For some it is more than enough to just admire their doll by looking at it.

And once again we are working with fear... Morals alone really won't help.

 

In my opinion, Recast buyers should be sued by the doll companies, hunted down one by one and made to pay double for supporting criminals. Without them buying the trash-dolls, then recasters would have no reason to keep making recast dolls and Companies could have a potential to recover their lost revenue for every recast sold.

 

They won't though because starting a lawsuit isn't cheap and these companies simply don't have the money to afford it.

 

I agree with St James about the social consequences. I know that I will never trust that collector on Ebay again. I previously saw them as a fellow doll lover who liked similar dolls to me, someone I have happily bought from and sold to in the past. Now I want no more dealings with them because I simply don't trust them anymore. That is a gut reaction and one I can't control, once trust is gone it is very hard to rebuild.

It appears that the BJD hobby is going to split into 2 camps and sadly if the OTHER camp continues to grow I see more and more doll artists shutting up shop. How will many of them be able to add the risk of having a doll recast into their already slim profit margins? In some ways I can vaguely excuse new people coming into the hobby buying recasts through inexperience and maybe not fully understanding the impact it could have on the hobby overall - but I am really stunned at seeing older long-time BJD collectors willing to mix and match legit and recast dolls. I just never thought that would happen, it seemed like an old-guard vs new collector issue, clearly I was really naive!

 

I worry about recasts becoming accepted, but it's hard to clearly show that I hate that recasts exist (and are so easy to buy) and not that I hate recast buyers themselves, so I mainly have to keep quiet for fear of being misunderstood.

Instead I rely on others to keep up the stigma. There should always be stigma surrounding this kind of theft.

 

I can't bring myself to hate someone I have never met and who has no impact on my day to day real life (Can't think of anyone I would apply the word Hate to in real life thankfully, either!) but as far as hanging out and doing business knowingly with recast collectors online (I don't go to meets), buying/selling/ trading and chatting dolls, well I think our basic core values are just too far out of line. I can't think of any issue to compare it with that isn't inflammatory and out of perspective.

 

I agree that recasts have a big impact on the hobby. It seems bizarre to me that some people don't realise this and think they can continue to enjoy both aspects of the hobby (low prices, or extra colours of recasts, as well as the artistic, creative community aspects of the hobby). I was pretty surprised after taking a long holiday from dolls to see what had happened to Blythe doll collecting - copies seem to have been embraced in a different way there, which is not too surprising because Blythe is a mass-produced doll, unlike bjds, and you could buy them in toys r us. But it has changed the hobby completely, as far as I can tell.

It's really sad that a similar attitude to copies has developed among some bjd collectors, because they really are a different kind of product.

 

I think that the recasts have great consequences on companies! It is so sad that these artists are losing profit and sells because people can get them cheaper somewhere else. It broke my heart when Dollshe released a statement about recasts because it shows just how fast dolls are being recasted now. I think it is so sad when a brand new doll is recasted, because this is a doll the artist created thinking they were going to make a profit from. Their entire life style depends on it and yet someone else is gaining income from their design and work, which is sickening. I don't like the thought of them at all!

I think that the hard part is that, here in the United States at least, it is NOT illegal to buy knockoff goods, as long as you don't try to resell as the original product. I think that this fact makes a lot of pro-recast hobbyists believe they aren't doing anything wrong. They believe that just because what they are doing can be done where they are living that they should be able to do it. I don't think many of them sit back and actually think about the consequences they are having on the companies in question. I've seen many argue that we buy knockoff purses and clothes. HOWEVER I think they are missing the point entirely. We are not talking about clothes, we are talking about an art form that an artist put so much time and effort in to only to have it stolen and remolded to be sold at a cheaper price.

I remember when I first joined the hobby the wait and the saving were part of the fun. When I was waiting for my first doll I was sooo excited because I had worked hard for it, scouring companies for the right doll. I remember getting the Souldoll box in the mail and thinking it was just the most beautiful thing in the world! I think that it is wrong to blame newcomers to the hobby for buying a recast, because sadly, if they have never experienced the thrill of buying legit, they really have no reason to know just how special it is to get a brand new doll from the company. Because there are SO many people on Tumblr, flickr, etc telling them how great the quality of recasts is, and how much cheaper they are, than of course many newcomers will be drawn to that, without realizing how their consequences are effecting not only their chances of joining DoA and meeting the great people here, but also their ability to have the full BJD experience.

Because of this, and the influence the recast owners are having on newcomers and inexperienced members of the community, I do not HATE recast owners. AND, I do not like the spouting of hate I see from both sides. I think that one CAN disagree with someones actions without threatening to murder them (even if this is a farce), telling them they are worse than child molesters (please...don't say this..anyone), etc. So I usually choose to not comment. I think that sadly, the spreading of hate is only drawing more attention to recasts, and, if someone has never heard of a BJD before and the one post they see with them mentioned is someone trying to shame a recast owner by being incredibly hateful, this newbie will be more likely to choose the side that they see as the nicer party. And this does not make any of the legit owners doing this seem appealing and approachable.

I think it's great to spread the message that recasts DO break down companies and reduce income drastically for the artists that came up with the doll in the first place, but I think we need to find a basis where we can do so without making the other side look more appealing to those who aren't familiar to the hobby and without spreading unnecessary hate.

 

I have to admit, with all the new 3D printers and scanners around it cant be difficult.
But I would like to see what some of the classical Greek /Roman sculptures would look like.
I mean you would have to tweak the neck, but it must be possible.

I dare say that's how they make mimimes?

 

Many of the newer custom sculpts are first produced using 3D printing technology, however, actual Minimees (the ones produced by Doll in Mind) were sculpted by hand.

However, neither is overly relevant to the topic at hand, which is recast dolls and their effect on the hobby.

 

This is true, just all the negativity is going around in circles.

 

What about people who unknowingly bought recast? Example, new people to the hobby, or false advertising on the sellers end (be it someone online on amazon , ebay , etc. or a seller at a local store, or meet up)?

 

The problem with this is that the cost of hunting down each individual who bought one would outweigh any payment you could force out of them. Lawyers, private investigators, court costs, for EVERY SINGLE PERSON, would be high in the tens of thousands, to recoup 2-3,000. Then how many accused are actually innocent, and counter sue for defamation? How many would be guilty, but let off because they claimed they didn't know it was a recast. Proving they knowingly bought a fake is hard. How many are proven guilty, but cannot afford to pay? Essentially no appreciable funds would be recovered, millions would be expended, far more than the companies actually have, and a huge base of existing and potential customers would be scared off, because what if they get falsely accused? The only executable option is to keep on top of recasters and shut down their shops as they pop up.

 

One thing that has frustrated me - and maybe it was just the companies I contacted - but I found someone selling bjds on eBay at an insane low price and no feedback, claiming to be authorized IslandDoll and AOD dealers but when I contacted them they never responded. Later the auctions were cancel led. I was lucky - I had been away so I did not pay right away. Had I not I may not have gotten the dolls I bought or probably not at all. I found another seller I want to ask about but after that first attempt I am discouraged at contacting them. If it is so big a concern why the lack of response . . . . .

See! This is what drives me nuts! I write to Island Doll about a seller. I wrote to Mystic Kids and they do not answer. If unauthorized sellers were such a big problem you would think they would bother to answer. I know it is wrong but a part of me is tempted to say, to Hell with it, and buy from the seller. I tried. But I won't. Just saying.

 

This particular topic has kind of made me regret getting into BJDs. The vitriol being spewed on both sides makes me lose my faith in humanity. I can understand not wanting to associate with recast buyers, but death threats? Really, people?