The consequences of copied dolls

I was. just tthinking the same thing. I didn't write any. I did express my frustration with the companies I contacted not responding.

And I think dollonline2009 is legit. They have hundreds of positives and have been on eBay for years. I think if their claims of being authorized were false they would not have survived this long or with so many positives.

 

I have never seen any death threats either, or threats of violence as far as I remember. That was why I questioned the idea of "hating" someone who buys or even makes recasts. Hate is a very strong word that seems to have become trivialised, not just here but in life generally.

Selenae, try to focus on all the great things in this hobby and don't let your imagination inflate the smaller elements that you find negative. If you really find this topic too sensitive and it gets you upset then stay away from threads on the topic. It is easy enough, there are hundreds of other threads on DOA, get involved in those and have fun with your dolls, make some new friends with similar interests and soon you will be enjoying the BJD hobby like the rest of us.

I have sometimes dropped out of DOA for a while when I have become a bit jaded by inflammatory posts on certain threads, but that just reminded me that immature people are everywhere, in all walks of life and also in this hobby. They can be easily avoided online though and there are lots of safeguards on DOA so that you can report anyone who gets out of line. Surely the "debate" threads on this forum are a testament to the fact that a lot of people can discuss even quite sensitive subjects without losing their cool. As for discussion threads, well it would be like an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand for DOA as a community to ignore the topic of Recasts and the real effect they are having on the hobby of collecting BJDs. That hobby is why we are here on DOA.

Do not expect those of us who are artists ourselves (a large proportion of DOA members it has always seemed to me) to treat recasting lightly though. Most of us have too high a respect for the artists who create these original dolls. Also, a good deal of empathy because we create for a living also and feel the reflected anger, disappointment and powerlessness of the BJD artists whose work is being stolen en masse by the recasting parasite, and those who create that market by buying them. The point of a thread like this is to educate new people joining the hobby as to what the issues are so that they can make up their own mind. There will always be people who simply don't care for anyone but themselves, we will never change their minds, they don't have a conscience. There are plenty of people, though, who have simply not considered the real human cost of their actions on the artists if they buy a recast. I assume they think BJDs are all created by large faceless corporations with vast amounts of funds to write off the losses. Most are not though, they are either one person or small groups of people trying to make a living through their talent. I sometimes think if we saw photos of the actual artists on their website it might be harder for most to go out and buy a recast doll knowing exactly who they are stealing from. Just a thought.

 

That is actually a beautiful thought, vonbonbon.
I have had so many positive interactions with companies during my time in the hobby. Interactions where I can really tell just how small that company truly is and just how happy they are to sell something that also makes us happy as BJD hobbyists (whether that be a doll or clothing) that I could never imagine buying a recast. Recasts just make me feel so sad. Usually, as you say...I try not to think about them too much because it is a depressing topic. It is depressing that people think they are ok, and it is depressing that it is dividing the hobby in this way. But truth be told, it is something that is important to think about.

 

To everyone out there who still might think KNOWINGLY BUYING A RECAST is no big deal or can in any way be excused - go to Nefer Kane's facebook page and read her statement on Lilycat being recast. If reading that statement doesn't break your heart just a little and if, after reading it, you still think there's any justification whatsoever for knowingly buying a recast, I'll call you a rotten human being. Plain and simple. Nefer Kane expresses PERFECTLY, imho, what it means for an artist and how it feels to an artist to see his work being recast.

 

How about ruined friendships?
I just found out that an online friend of mine is a Recast supporter.
Needless to say I won't be talking about the BJD hobby with them again.

 

This was so sad to read, thank you for bringing this to the thread Khell. It takes so much dedication and talent to sculpt an original doll. There's no reason, excuse, or justification to buy a fake copy.

 

When I was researching to get my first doll, I was super new, and almost bought a recast because I didn't know better. But the little *too good to be true* voice popped in my head and I did research. That's when I discovered that there were recasts out there, and I was like: I want to participate in this hobby and be taken seriously, and relate to other BJD artists. Why would I FAKE it?

That's just the thing. People who intentionally buy recasts are faking it - no better than the sellers that recast!

Although I'm new to this hobby, I'm not new to being an artist. I see these dolls as works of art, that I can hopefully participate in. But recasts are not art.

 

Khell, thank you for pointing everyone to Nefer's post. In her words are the consequences of being willing to buy recast dolls. So, so sad to hurt artists in this way.

 

I deleted my FB page what does her post say? or can someone screen cap it?

 

Nefer's post is heartbreaking, as are the comments on her post of others saying they have been recasted as well. Poor Lillycat. I feel so, so awful for her. I wish I could support her right now, but sadly I cannot afford any sort of BJD at the moment.

 

I was afraid of buying second hand because I know that I am new to this hobby and would not be able to tell the difference between recasts. I definitely stayed away from ebay as well, because if BJDs are anything like figures, there must be quite a few knock offs on there.

I think the problem that recasts cause are that they may discourage people from buying dolls that aren't recasts from sites like ebay because of fear that the chance may exist.

I don't know much about this hobby yet, but I am for sure not a fan of bootleg figures and would not want to get one. When I first started collecting in my early teens, I bought some in a convention and was upset when I found out what they were. This is why I was really worried about recasts since I didn't want the same kind of thing to happen again. ^^'

I don't get mad at people who buy bootlegs though, it's just something I don't want to be a part of. I don't think I'd get mad at people who buy recasts, but I know that I wouldn't want to be a part of that either.

 

It was a bit long for a screen shot, so I copied the text for you. From https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nefer-Kane/99196938584

RECAST....? FRIENDLY ONLY.
Or, " All You always wanted to know about Rachelle Lillycat Cerisedolls"
I am not going to open a big debate already well open everywhere on how recast is illegal, the law, the jail, the ethic... Some are way more capable than me on this subject and pardon me, but I think this is not really the point in my very humble opinion.
No. It is not. I already hear everyone yelling "omg Nefer Kane fell on her head; wtf is she saying? what the hell?"
First about companies being recasted, it's an asian problem. They can solve it on their own and the only question it brings, is you, as a buyer do you want to get a cheap fake? That is to be left to everyone's conscience and moral value.
Honestly tonight I really don't give a damn.
I am sorry but it's true. I buy my legit dolls, and I don't give a fuck if Fairyland is recasted or not.
Because today, something happened to me; to the private person I am. Something that I must say the loudest I can; because it touches something very private in my life : My Friend Lillycat.
She is recasted.
So, I know... Everyone is going to talk about laws, illegality, how dreadful it is for an artist, and the "ethics" of all this. WELL.
That's not what I thought at first when I read the news. Not at all. I thought about what no one really thought about : Who Rachelle is.
Now I see all of you thinking and looking for answer, like "she's lillycat, the one that makes the dolls..." That's not exactly what I talk about. And I ask to each of you reading this post, DO YOU KNOW WHO RACHELLE IS?
No. 99% of You don't.
I do. I truly do. 100%. Because as a person, and beyond our works; she is a close friend. If you all looked for an answer and gave a thought about who she is, it's very simple; it's because Rachelle never says a word. She is shy and private. Some of you think ( I know it) that she is cold, distant... This is why I know that you barely know her except her artist name. Lillycat is one of the most sensitive, fair, loyal and honorable person I have ever met. She is just shy thus not sharing a lot about her personal thoughts and feelings. It's not her nature. I would say, lucky us in a way; because she puts all her emotions in her sculpts and the world she created for them; which enchants everyone of us; me first; as Lillycat is one of the very rare artists I collect for my own collection and I can tell you that the quality of her sculpts and all she puts in them make of them the treasures of my collection I will never let go.
My first thought reading that this son of a bloody whore ( yes...) Luo Ligui recast her doll has been " she won't speak and will just leave."
I was right. This is what she told me tonight. She wants to simply stop and leave. She is too hurt; so hurt that she can't even express how much.
When we sculpt something, we, artists; we give a part of us to the public to accept it or not. If the piece doesn't work, we can only think " that part of me was not good enough to be shared, shown, given. I was not good enough to be accepted."
When a piece of our work is stolen like it is the case now for Rachelle, it's a real piece of us taken away from us. A piece that you, the public, accepted and led us to have a little love. Taken away, violating who we are just to make money.
Only money.
Don't come and tell me that recast has excuses : I don't talk about recast and I don't give a fuck right now. Recast is not my concern right now. My worry is my friend, that person everyone knows without seeing her true shining colors, Rachelle.
And I hear already those saying "Lillycat is expensive! here is why she's been recasted!"
What do you know?
Rachelle and I, so I can speak about what I personally live; as she would never dare to bother everyone with this; we are french declared artists. We have a registered company. She has two employees and I have one. That bloody recast is going to be sold for 156$.
That is about 70% of the price we pay our manufacturer for such a doll. We also have the same manufacturer. So, let's be technique before accusing her of greed : to this recast price, add 30% more; then add the shipping from China to France, add the minimum order we have to reach, if we don't, we have to buy more dolls at our expenses, add the customs taxes for the dolls parcels to be given to us, add the taxes we pay on each single sale to our government, and no, in France we are taxed around 60% as artists, sorry but it's true. Add the cushions, the eyes, the bags, the packing material and shipping boxes. THEN you will have the real price we pay each of our dolls. Plus, we have, as registered companies, special taxes to pay as well. Is she expensive?
I am sorry but NO. And I am not talking about the wages and taxes we have to pay for each months, nor about the workshop she needs to work and she pays a rent every month.
Rachelle has three children. Two little girls twins and a little boy. They are 5 and 7. Did you know that?
She's not the funky lil artist making a lot of money on the back of people. She has pink hair yep... I do too... It doesn't make of us VIP. It might be just because we are dreamers in the hope to live in a better world. But first of all, we are mothers and we work to feed our children.
One day, a few years ago; everyone knows that some people tried to put me out of work. To finish me. The person I could count on, even if for her, at that moment it was a terrible choice because she was friend with these people and barely knew me; this person I could count on has been Rachelle. She thought it was unfair and said it out loud. One day I told her " Maybe I am going to kill myself." And she forced me to change my mind. She has been there for me and pushed me to work again because I did quit. Rachelle might not be the most extrovert; but she is the most reliable person I know. When my ordeal has been over, she didn't turn her back. She, during years, stood straight with her opinion and never changed her mind. So ok ok... You don't hear that much about Rachelle; but I can tell you the why she would never dare to : it's because she never hurts someone, even when she gets hurts. It's because she hates drama and never does mean things. Because she never complains. Because she is shy. By the way, I would add it is easy to attack and pull down someone who will not answer violently... It is so EASY. But I am her friend and I am shameless so I tell what she cannot.
I am not talking about recast tonight; I talk about my friend Rachelle. And I say as loud as I can that I don't want her to go and give up. On my side, what I shall do, is that I will keep on collecting her dolls, to support her and her three children. Also because her work is astounding. She deserves every way my support.
Even if we have pink hair, it doesn't make the world better. But Einstein said that the world will not be destroyed by those doing Evil, but by those letting them do so. I, on my little side; will try to put a balance back for Rachelle. I will always collect her dolls. I am not going to insult and yell after recast lovers. I don't care. If some want a Lillycat recast : I leave it to your conscience. Rachelle is a very good person, she takes an immense care of her collectors and respect them while also being grateful to them, she is a mother of three little ones. Up to your conscience.
Now, for MY Rachelle, I invite everyone to share this post, and to TRULY support her by collecting her dolls thus I hope she won't leave.
The world would be darker if Rachelle quits. I am not letting this happen without fighting first.
Her name is Rachelle, not many know her; but I needed to tell you that she is one of the most glorious persons I have ever known.
Thank you for your attention and time dear friends,
Nefer Kane.
http://www.lillycat.net/

 

Thank You very much!

Leave it on!
so that people who don't have FB can read it.

Don't care if it's long, Please put it back on.

 

Poor Lillycat. That is sickening.

 

Ose: Thanks for posting that about lillycat....

Recasters make me ill.....

 

The dolls I make are OT here, but I know how furious I would be if someone were to start selling copies of them. They're my characters. I created them. I want to share them with the world but on MY terms. It isn't about money.

Also, I'm kind of a snob. I want the real thing, and if I don't have the money, I'll save up for it until I do. My dolls are all the REAL deal, and I'm proud of that.

 

I saw Nefer's facebook post and it really made me feel ill. I love lillycat's dolls and I'm waiting for the day Ombre will be re released. But if she closes up shop I'll miss my chance! Thanks a lot, recasters- you've just potentially screwed me out of owning a doll I really love. Sure, I could maybe find a second hand one, but if the company is gone I imagine prices will skyrocket, especially as these dolls were never produced in huge runs to begin with. So to all recast supporters I'll say this: you hurt artists, you hurt their families by taking away their livelihood, you hurt their very spirit by stealing their work, and you hurt all of us who only buy legit dolls by driving artists to close up shop. You are seriously damaging the hobby and once you've stolen enough to make artists quit sculpting you've shot yourself in the foot; no more new sculpts for you to rip off! If more people took the long view maybe recasts wouldn't be such a problem. Sadly though people who buy recasts knowingly are only concerned with the here & now and instant gratification at any cost.

 

I am not the kind of person who prefers quantity to quality. I would never buy a copy. As far as the consequences for the hobby, I believe that the supply/demand would be altered if the market was flooded by fakes and it would force companies to sell more expensive to keep profits up or close down these effects would be more felt by smaller doll makers.

 

Thank you for posting this @Ose_93, this is really important. And not because it's Lilycat that I adore and respect her as wonderful artist, not because her case is more important than stealing from other artists and companies. It doesn't matter if bjd company has 5 or 50 employees, recasting is destructive and aims at us all, because it destroys unity in our hobby. Nefer's message is important: it's personal and speaks to the heart.

I would recommend to delete recaster name though, we don't wont to give these thiefs more advertisement, right?

 

Recast might hurt independent artists like the story of lillycat, but I don't think it will make any difference with BJD companies, because they are already overloaded with orders most of the year and their waiting list is growing on daily basis, if someone wants to buy a recast that means he didn't like the sculpt enough to pay for the real deal or he can not afford to buy the real deal, in both cases even if recast dose not exist the company that produces the original doll will not get his money, recast companies are well known to most of us which means it is well known to the original company where & who is stealing their work, so it is indeed their business to do the legal part, our only concern should be the second hand market to prevent buying recast as legit