The consequences of copied dolls

(deleted the colors, because I had a hard time reading those, sorry )

The company, for two financial reasons:
1. Said company might want to re-release this limited doll and so now it has to compete with the recaster of their own work.
2. People are less likely to buy a product, when there's a fair chance that this same prodcuct will be sold for much less not too long from now. This means that the risk of releasing new dolls becomes too high at some point.

And, of course, like other people said, there's the fact that it is just hurtful to the artist to have found out that people didn't respect her enough to keep their fingers of her products. It's not about money, it's about the fact that you are being treated like a throw-away thing. That is what makes new artists reluctant to share their work. And without new input, there's no hobby.

 

And a point so far omitted from this (ridiculous) question of "who is hurt when a limited is recast?"

The entire secondhand market is hurt. We all know that recasts make it harder to sell a doll on the secondhand market; when it's a limited that's recast, you've both reduced the market for that doll (by giving those with sketchy morals an out) and made the legitimate versions of that doll suspect!

Everyone--everyone--is hurt by recasting every doll, limited or otherwise.

 

Exactly...
And, as has been already mentioned multiple times in the course of this long and elderly thread, wrecking the secondary market can and does have a direct effect on first-hand company sales. Many, many collectors finance their new purchases by selling older dolls they aren't as interested in anymore.

No sale of that older doll, rather it's a limited or a standard = no purchase of a new one.

 

I think the same questions will pop up regularly as new people join the hobby... It might be a good idea to write a whole essay about the consequences so all the info are focused in one spot. At the moment the information is spread in the whole thread and most people don't red 39 pages of comments. Sadly I am still not long enough in the hobby to write one. I would probably forget many details XD

It would be really cool if someone with more knowledge could write one.... The dry and boring facts! Then people could proof read and add even more stuff. Maybe pin it at the beginning of this thread or even making a new thread for it? Arg question will probably still pop up but maybe it can reduce it >___<

I understand question can be annoying but always think about the newbies.. We don't want to scare them away!

 

I wrote this little text. Maybe it is useful:


Reasons for consequent anti-recast policy

The rules of this forum state that strictly no recast dolls are allowed on this forum in any aspect.

The reasons for this policy:

1. Harm to doll manufacturers
   
   Doll recasters buy one doll from a company and produce illegal copies from this one doll. Buyers do not buy from the doll manufacturer or an authorized dealer, but from a third party which has nothing to do with the manufacturer.
   Thus the manufacturer looses money with every single recast doll sold.
   As most doll manufacturers are very small companies (one person) and have to feed their families from the doll business, recasts cause heavy physical damage.
   
   Another aspect is that the doll manufacturers are harmed on an artistic level. Imagine you take the perfect picture of your doll. Someone sees it on the internet, and without asking you prints it on t-shirts, mugs, etc. I guess you won’t be very happy about someone stealing your art!
   The worst consequence could be that you will have lost the desire for taking beautiful and artistic pictures of your doll.
   Now imagine if a doll manufacturer (an actual person) would be that heavily hurt that he or she looses all interest in creating new sculpts! Would you want that to happen?
   
   
2. Harm to new doll manufacturers or new authorized dealers
   
   As we are talking about doll recasts, there came up a rather strange trend. When new companies are presented, you the question in the back of your head appears „Are they legit?“. Before even taking a closer look at a company, it is soften asked now if the sculpts they present are really original.
   Same with new dealers. Are they selling the real thing? Or is there a chance they sell bootlegs?
   A high level of suspect has developed in that aspect.
   
   
3. Harm to the second hand market
   
   The financial harm is more of an indirect one. The mental harm is more obvious. When searching the marketplace, it is now common to take a picture of the doll showing the certificate of authenticity and often also the box. That is all nice and well for those dolls which came with these items.
   But there are still dolls, mostly older ones, which simply did not receive these proofs of authenticity. You have thrown away the paper on the outer shipper box with the company address, the packing material is long gone. What now? How do you convince people that you do not sell a bootleg? This creates a high level of mistrust, which finally may lead to a group of „unsaleable“ dolls.
   The financial harm to doll companies lies in the fact that people often sell a doll to reshell a character. If they want to buy a new doll from the company, they need the money from the second hand doll sale. Now if they can’t sell this poor doll without proof of authenticity, they can’t afford the new doll. So no money goes to the doll company.
   
   
4. Harm to yourself
   
   But that is not the worst thing. The resin is often of lesser quality than the resin used for the genuine dolls. It is possible that the recast dolls are more prone to breakage, or the resin has a strange smell due to a resin mixture with cheaper ingredients. When handling these dolls, you can really harm your health with these odours.
   
   
5. You don’t get your money’s worth
   
   
   There is a reason for the low prices of recast dolls. When you cast something, the mold wears out over time. Therefore, the sculpt may not be as defined as the original doll, and the joints may not work as good as the original doll’s joints.
   
   Finally, it is not uncommon that you never get the bootleg doll or that arrives in an unusable state.
   The basic process is the same as when buying a doll from a genuine company. You order the doll, you send your money to the recast company. If the doll arrives, they do not come in nice boxes or a doll carrier, but are often packed very insufficiently. You risk broken parts which are beyond repair. When you try to contact the seller, they disppeared into thin air.
   Even worse if they get your hard-earned money and simply do not send the doll. What can you do?
   
   That is why recast or bootleg dolls are so harmful for doll companies and our community. DON’T BUY RECASTS!

 

... And the newbies would take one look at that carefully written and edited document (Which by necessity would be of considerable length-), say "OMG! TL;DR!" and either ask their questions on the forum or just assume, as we've seen here, that recast limiteds are somehow less harmful to the companies, the secondary market and legitimate owners than recast standards are.

The problem isn't just that people won't read a multi-page long thread. It's that they ALSO won't read a multi-paragraph long essay.

 

^ this. I've seen newbies here flat out state that they won't look through stickies for answers to common questions because they're too long/have too much information.

I think this unwillingness to read or look for yourself among the new hobbyists is also playing into the damaging effects of the recast situation. What I consider a new trend over the years compared to when I first joined, is this "starter doll" thing where some people just want to buy the cheapest doll they can. Don't read into that wrongly, I am totally supportive of newbies making cost savvy purchases if they aren't 100% sure about the hobby - it's when it ties in to the aforementioned laziness and unwillingness, and they just google "bjd for sale" and end up on recast heavy sites or auctions. Those sites should set off a red flag seeing the prices that low for major companies, and some simple research into the names would show the problem. Even further not-difficult research would show there are plenty of actual, legitimate options for starter dolls.

And it's probably my rose tinted goggles of the past talking, but I feel like there was more appreciation of the art of the hobby early on, and the crowd it drew respected that. I feel like maybe the more popular it became over the years, the more rampant the gimme-gimme consumerist culture became. I think some of the people joining and buying recasts are just doing it for the sake of being in a popular hobby, and really don't care about the actual core of it.

 

I think the more people are getting into this hobby, the higher the "entitlement factor" is rising. The "I WANT this doll and I want it NOW and I want it for CHEAP and since I'm ENTITLED to have whatever I want, I'll just buy a recast. It's all about ME anyways, so I don't care whom I might be hurting by buying a recast because I don't care about other people."

Some people just seem to have a problem with grasping - or accepting - the simple fact that you can't always get what you want. And that you're by no means entitled to have something because you want it.

 

Khell, sadly I agree with you.

Personally I think there's an excitement to be gained from having certain items being difficult to obtain. It's fun in games and collecting.

 

I do wish it was possible for more newbies to be introduced to dolls by attending a convention. It completely changes your perspective to meet the artist standing there right behind all of the dolls she sculpted. The impersonal nature of the internet and the ease with which anyone can create a very professional looking website probably lends to the mistaken assumption that BJD companies are large corporate entities that are impervious to a few knock-offs. There are ways for artists to connect with buyers, but blogging and instagram and facebook and designing cute packaging and writing a personal note to each customer is a lot of work. It takes valuable time away from producing dolls, and some artists just can't afford that cost.

 

On the subject of recasting limiteds- Don't you realize that a GENUINE limited doll is DESTROYED every time a recaster makes a mold of it?!

And molds can't be used forever- they break down and ANOTHER one has to be made- BY USING ANOTHER GENUINE DOLL.

What if A DOZEN recasters pick up the same limited to make molds? - You've just DESTROYED TWELVE ORIGINAL LIMITED DOLLS.

And you say there are huge recasting communities? Do they really think they're contributing ANYTHING positive to the community by DESTROYING original dolls to make cheap knockoffs!?

That's a HUGE difference between any other kind of bootlegging, copying, or art theft- RECASTING DESTROYS ORIGINALS.

PIRATING MUSIC does not destroy an original.
BOOTLEGGING MOVIES does not destroy an original.
ART FORGERY does not destroy an original.
KNOCKOFF MERCHANDISE does not destroy an original.
(I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THESE, I am using them to make a point..)

IT IS AN INDISPUTABLE FACT that RECASTS have a direct and immediate damaging effect to the artist and their work- it DESTROYS them.

 

Making a silicone mold doesn't require the destruction of the master. Masters are usually carefully handled and kept for future molds. There's no reason to believe that recasters would treat their original investment any differently than an honest operation. And it's more likely that if an accident befell the original, they'd just use one of their own recasts to make a new mold. Since recasters are just in it for the money, it would not be good business practice to destroy an original BJD.

 

I'll be honest, my knowledge of recasting is restricted to what was happening way back when it first started - The methods were crude at best and destruction of the original was common (I haven't cared to look deeper into their "process" lately) I hate to imagine that their method has become more "sophisticated", but it's unfortunately possible. The point still stands that those originals will never see the light of day outside of the recaster's workhouse and it's one less real doll in existence; And there are unfortunately a lot of companies popping up to do it, so it's not isolated to just one or two disappearing from the market.

..The whole idea of copiers and art theft hits me right in the ticker. You see my avatar picture? Those are original artworks by me. I made them several years ago and sold them locally at craft shows and conventions. If you poke around on etsy these days, even using my copyrighted name, you'll find hundreds of copies of my originals. I tried to compete on etsy to reclaim my name, but I could never get the same traction online. The de-personalization that the internet affords turned it into a numbers game- The people making my works for less money came up in search first, my listings weren't even seen. One person bought an original from me on etsy, and didn't even care enough to leave a feedback. I gave up on the whole venture and took all of my listings down. I still sell at shows and conventions, but on my terms. I won't even show them to others anymore without first having some kind of conversation, and making a connection.. Whether it works or not, it makes me feel like maybe those people won't steal from me too, because now they know me a little bit.

 

I feel like saying thank you to the DoA mods. You guys get so much criticism for being the dolly police, but really we need you to take a hard stance despite the foot stamping it generates.

There needs to be someone "in charge" saying that stealing from the artists isn't OK.

I run a meet group off site, and the fact that I now have to specify "no recasts" to me is a difficult step, because it means that there's a chance people could think that it might be OK to bring them in the first place. Which is upsetting.

 

There used to be great appreciation when someone extensively modified a doll. Now I often hear: "I'm not going to dye a doll, because I want a custom color. It's too much work! Let the artist make me one." So yeah, there's a definite change.

@St.James: Being introduced to these dolls at a convention is a start, but at the same time, it doesn't take a large brain to figure out that a company the size of Mattel would never be able to survive in a hobby this small. It isn't even rocket science to figure out how tiny the market really is. DoA is the largest hobby forum by far and even they only have a few ten thousand members. If people don't want to read up on a topic, they're also not going to think these things. Making excuses is simply easier.

 

Have any of you been watching the Drugs, Inc. series on TV? The dealers and traffickers are so crazy creepy to me. The thing that they keep saying is that they're in it for the money only and really don't care who they hurt. I get that same creepy, disgusted feeling when I think of the people doing the recasting. Imagine who they are as people and you get a strong distaste for them right away. And those who buy them are driven by the same motives as the recasters except in reverse. Money.

 

@Pony, I just read your post and I'm thinking what is even more creepy, scary and... sad. This is an illegal business, somewhere in China (mostly) and these 'recasts' are not just cheap... They are really cheap. Sure, black market sellers are not paying designers, photographers and advertising, they just parasitize and stole from popular companies. They probably don't even pay taxes, but how much from this business their employees get? I mean, these people who actually cast and make dolls? Are they wearing respirators? Are any of these children? Who control their minimum wage, insurances, fair working conditions... If they were paid fair wages these fakes couldn't be so cheap. Has anyone thought about it? I made some research on one of these 'recast companies' and they are not selling only fake dolls. This seller had everything from cheap electronics for counterfeit bags. It looks like huge smelly business, not just one nice asian person pirating dolls at home for living...
Working just for food is called slavery, but who thinks about it when you can buy some fancy doll cheaper and other people blinded by misunderstood tolerance will accept you and told you it's ok, because you don't have much money. We used to think we live in a world free of slavery, but it's not true, and copied dolls problem is just the tiny tip of the iceberg...

 

You can bet the workers don't benefit from the scam. They can't be paid a decent wage and bootleggers still make a nice profit. Exploitation pays.

 

On the note of recasts, I had a certain question that has been lingering with me for awhile.
Granted I want to put a disclaimer here about myself: Im a newbie.
Unfortunately, before joining DoA and doing my researching: I thought I was buying legit from a trusted distributor. Nevertheless to my dismay after I already received my doll, I found out she was a recast and not an original.

I feel kind of silly for not joining the forums first and researching more before my purchase. But my question is how would you react or deal with a situation like mine? Part of me wants to keep the doll, another part of me wants to get rid of it. It's too late to get a refund unfortunately. And luckily I had enough money to buy legit from the companies website.

After said fiasco, I come to realize that a lot of these recast distributors including the second hand market make it really easy for new people to unwillingly buy an illegal doll. Its almost just kind of... sickening to me.

If I do keep the doll: I am aware of the rules and will not post any photos of it. I am just looking for some advice and adding to the discussion.

 

Inklet: I'm not sure how you would intend to "get rid of" the recast....but I hope that doesn't mean selling it to someone else....

But if it were me in your situation...I'd chalk it up to 'lesson learned' and just keep it in the quiet privateness of my home...and never share or promote it out in the dolly community. The deed was done....so unless you intend to destroy it...what else can be done?

The only other consideration that I can think of as to why not keep it is that some of these recasts seem to be made with more toxic materials....so if there is any reason to believe that is the case with your doll maybe disposal of it would be the best thing.

I'm glad you learned that it is wrong to buy recasts and I hope you enjoy your legitimate dolls for many years to come.