The consequences of copied dolls

I was in the hobby for a few months before I learned about them (and yes, I did my research for my first and he is legit) but it really scared me off buying secondhand. I know that I have security here so it won't happen but it took me almost a year and a half to make my first secondhand purchase because I was so scared. That is a consequence of fakes.

 

I read on bjd confession blog that someone sold a recast on here for probably more money than it was worth, I would feel so ripped off and hurt if that happened to me. one person can really blow it for everyone and it's not fair, cant we all be decent humans.

 

A lot of those recast supporters take a twisted pride in tricking people with their recast dolls which includes scamming buyers into thinking the doll is legitimate.

 

Don't believe everything you read on the confession blogs.

 

I've heard about "recast", but I never saw them for myself until the other day when I was looking for Volks MSD stuff online.

I found an online Web BJD Shop & was over the moon at so many dolls being sold there !! Volks Heath & Williams that I've never seen listed on ebay for under $1,000 !!

Then after I saw all of the YO SD.. I knew something was up & clicked one of the dolls listings, & sure enough in the small print it was basically written out that while they were using the photos that belonged to Volks.. the wig, faceup, & outfit in the photos were not offered. However you could buy a faceup.

So while having a YO SD Alice was tempting, but now enough to buy one. I was thinking that anyone that buys their dream doll from this place is setting themselves up, because if they are looking for the same doll they've been drooling over.. it's not going to be the same.

 

The first time I looked into this hobby, around 3 years ago, I was on friendly terms with someone who collected bjds (we lost contact for reasons that have nothing to do with bjds, just fandom stuff), and I asked them a bit about the hobby. They recced me to buy a recast, without really explaining me what they were (they implied the recasters had authorization from the companies?). And I didn't buy because I was broke, but if I had had money I probably would have fell for it, them being a trusted friend and all. Dodged a bullet there.

Anyway, even if people price secondhand recasts the same as legit dolls, it still hurts prices of legit companies because a wider availability of a product ALWAYS drives prices lower, it's an economic principle. Even if you admit it as a recast, it doesn't matter. If you got one you shouldn't sell it under any circumstances.

However I really don't see the point of destroying it, since it doesn't benefit anybody. The companies aren't getting any more money. The only thing to do is keep it off the market, that's all.

 

I just recently returned to the bjd hobby after 4 years and had previously never heard of recasts. It came as quiet a chock to me and I was saddened because of all the damage it has done to the bjd community and all the mistrust it has created. I've done a lot of research since and I have tried to understand the reasoning behind it. I read some journals of people who are pro-recast, but most of their arguments are just so unbelievably silly and even stupid at times. Yes, it is a lot of money, but there's a pretty good reason for that (a lot of work goes into making these dolls) and we all feel that way; every single one of us has had (and still has) to work hard to earn money to buy these beautiful works of art. Not having "that much money" or being on a tight budget does not make it okay. Sure you might have to wait longer and be forced to save money for several months, but this is the reality for most of us. I am a student and I still haven't gotten my first bjd - money being one of the main reasons. However, that does not mean I will go out and buy a cheap copy. That is disrespectful not only to the artist (which is bad enough in itself), but also the whole community. I simply cannot understand how anyone could justify it. To me it seems completely nonsensical.

 

I've been thinking about this and maybe the real victims of recasting aren't who you think.

Although larger companies such as FL and Soom are the companies most stolen from, I would venture that the affect is actually felt the strongest by smaller companies.

A strong second hand market essentially means that collectors can buy any doll they like knowing that they can simply resell if needed. Once the second hand market is weakened buyers are having to consider whether the doll will be resalable, and are forced into 'safe' options such as only buying dolls which are known to be already popular.

Just another reason why I believe recasts will continue to stifle the artistic output of creators.

 

Or you have ppl like me - who will avoid the "flavor of the day" and spend money on smaller companies for their equally if not more well made dolls for less (which to me means bigger resin family ). Thankfully, there's a list of known recasts and I'm happy to see my dolls haven't been recasted and the artists I support are getting their dues, nor do I have to be paranoid at every turn buying 2nd hand. As for reselling, what's popular today might not be tomorrow, even face up artists seem to fall in and out of favor, and I wouldn't want to compete with the 100 ppl trying to sell the same basic doll when something hotter shows up.

 

Suspicion.
Suspicion that leads to suspicious behavior.

Casting someone out of a convention over the suspicion of an unverified recast doll is absurd.

The public embarrassment.

Shameful!

In this instance I cannot support a convention that would escort another community member out of a public space over the suspension of having a recast.

THAT'S suspect.

Keep in mind this suspicion could happen to YOU. What if you brought in an older doll without markings and then YOU were escorted out of a public space/convention.

UGH!

This, IMO, speaks more to the convention staff than any individual attendee.

This could happen to any of us with older dolls.

 

This is what happened to me. I bought (not from DOA) what I thought was a second hand legit Soom doll, for the marketprice of a second hand limited soom doll. I was so thrilled and excited to get this doll...that i did not mind to pay a bit MORE. I even asked for a pic of the COA. Which I got. Only the COA was just as fake as the doll and the doll was crap.

This has really a bad experience.

 

I'm glad that the BJD community (for the most part) frowns and shames re-casters and supporters. Art theft is just pathetic and wrong on so many levels. I am always surprised when I read something where someone is defending the practice- or a sale post of a re-cast doll.

I actually don't have a problem with buying knock-off play line dolls (like from Monster High or My Little Pony). Big fat-cat companies like Mattel and Hasbro are not small artists or companies struggling to sell limited or unique products, certainly not handcrafted products- and they steal from each other and everyone else as often as possible and have questionable factory practices which do not make them particularly endearing. Regardless, I don't think that the sale of some crappy knock-off dolls in the dollar store is actually hurting the bottom line of such companies.

In contrast, BJD companies who painstakingly create, sculpt and then sell their products in small numbers as they are ordered- are absolutely hurt by the sale of recasts. Even if the sale of re-casts itself did not impact their bottom line by itself, the fact is that once a company is known to have fairly difficult-to-spot re-casts out in the world, it is likely that that sculpt or doll will not be ordered as much since buyers will know that a) their doll might get questioning looks from people wondering if she or he is a recast; b) re-selling that doll should the owner not bond with the doll ultimately, is probably harder with dolls known to have re-casts out there- since other buyers will not know for sure whether a second hand doll is authentic or not. I guess that is specifically why the hard line approach is a good one on DOA- since buyers and sellers know that the practice will not be tolerated, and so hopefully those people who have tried such things have not gotten away with it for long.

Luckily for me, of the three dolls I have bought second-hand, two are impossible to copy or recast (OOAK Marmite Sue Angel Eggs). I think the only doll that I have ever bought second hand that is from a company that gets recast (Fairyland)- was from a DOA member with a ton of feedback and a great reputation. Which is good since apparently the earliest Fairyland dolls didn't come with COAs- just the booklet.

I noticed that my new Serenade doll (from a new company) has a big gold, complicated stamp on the back of her head that would be impossible to copy. I'm sure they are doing that as a response to the number of re-casts out there.

 

I dove into dollsculpting about half a year ago and I am seriously contemplating in which direction to develop my skills. As it is, recast popularity and acceptance are part of the reason why I am considering porcelain, as opposed to resin.

I have yet to do more research into the porcelain-bjd community, perhaps they do have their own troubles concerning this matter and I might come across as naieve now. However, writing this is just to show how recasts influence my current train of thought and considerations as someone who might produce dolls in a near future. I am truly hard pressed to think other sculptors starting out nowadays won't have the same considerations. This, I think, is definitely a big consequence of recast practices that is no longer just an abstract worry of bjd collectors (myself included), but is getting very real.

 

It's hard to know if that is true or not. While I have seen recast supporters that take a sick pride in scamming the "elitists" in the legit community, those confession blogs are a cesspit for those that want to just start drama. You can never know if that was someone submitting that just for the sake of restarting a blaze.

Regardless, I'm quite unhappy to see recasts infecting this hobby the way they are. I couldn't even go looking for pictures of doll sculpts without finding company pictures having been stolen and plastered on these bootleggers' sites. I have seen recast supporters eventually come to see the harm they cause and go legit, but still some are so caught up in their selfish entitlement that they come up with any reason they can to justify funding art theft. They blame companies for being slow, I've seen unsavory rumors started about independent doll makers. I think at this point, all we can do is hope to educate new people entering the hobby, emphasize how small these companies are, how much they depend on us to buy their products and not cheap counterfeits, and the danger posed to the hobby itself because of recasts.

 

Wow. Just wow.

I just read about a BJD owner attending a BJD event in my own backyard, who was accused of having two recast dolls and then forcibly ejected from the event. Was this conclusion based on any real evidence whatsoever or following any kind of full and fair investigation? Nope. It was based on suspicion, conjecture and rumor- and entirely unsubstantiated! An investigation by a DOA staff member revealed that the accusations were entirely unsupported!

Just reading what happened made me feel so sick and angry on behalf of this person who I have never even met. I can't even imagine what I would have done! Maybe being a lawyer makes me a bit biased in these sorts of situations (evidence must be REAL not speculative) but as much as I hate recasting and art theft- I absolutely do not think that it is even SLIGHTLY okay to falsely accuse another collector of a crime and basically convict them witch-hunt style. Shameful!

 

This is so depressing. I'm glad that at least the DoA staff were able to clear the accusations.

 

Very! And yes, thank goodness for the DOA investigation, which was awesome, thorough, and NOT based on conjecture.

 

Let's not be precious, of course there are recasts being sold as legit on the DoA marketplace, regularly. There are certain limited dolls that are suddenly on the marketplace much more, despite no more being made by the company.

 

As a lawyer, I concur! As an artist, I'm absolutely disgusted that another human being was mistreated supposedly on artists' behalf.
Thank goodness for reasonable and informed 3rd party!

 

I took a long break from this hobby (5 years) and I've only just returned. I'm playing 'catch up' and this thread has been a good source of information to help me understand 'recasting'. I sold off almost all my bjds when I left. Now I'm keen to add to my doll family again. I've purchased second hand dolls in the past but after reading this thread, I'm not so confident about doing that anymore.