The Dollshe side of the Dollshe/Dollmore copy issue *translated statement page 27*

well i was asked i i wanted the new body supposedly abit more meattier.... lol but i like the less muscle one u know well i do intend to take him and the spare hound body apart and insecpt inch to inch... i promise there wun be any biased reviews... well that being said i wonder how long hell take to come home i have decided to ask someone to mod his faceup afer i am done~~~~

but yeah i like that banner??

 

Rukawagf, you're all but too awesome for providing these translations.

I know people are a bit annoyed about dollmore kind of avoiding the answers and things, but to them I can see how they are getting annoyed with this becoming such a public thing. They are really doing what is logically best for their company by trying to keep things out of the press. It does not neccesarily mean that they are hiding anything, but it's just not professional (which is how they are trying to hold themselves) if they were to actually take the pictures themselves and post them (copy or not) or even to make a public appology about it if it is, if they are going to court over the ordeal.

 

@babytarragon: is it from Blue?

Anyways... I'm on the side of if a doll owner doesn't want to open up their doll for people, that is their decision. I know if someone pointed a finger at Riku and claimed the MNF mold a rip off of some other mold I wouldn't take him apart for their sake...

 

lol true ah well i dun think dollmore is being nice entire calling someone a cyber terror.... ROFL but yeah i dun think dollshe has no wrong in telling ppl what he thinks [apparently we might have to wait abit longer for the new dollshe dolls ]

oh well court huh, Ruw can we send u to korea as a internation dollfie press reporter? lol

 

lol. i'd be very honored XD

but i guess that'd be pretty impossible XD sad....

well if anyone know of any article or news written in korean, i'm more the happy to (always) to translate it into English :P

Also Sabriell is waiting for Mr.Dollshe's responce, so i'll be translating that soon...... I'm sorta hoping it's not tooooooo long.... but i have a baaaad feeling it'll be just has long and diffricult lol


Also, I'll take this time to thank everyone who have thanked me, since it encouraged me to continue translating no matter what happens.

 

well Dollmore Vs Dollshe

final showdown : court...

the rest of us juz sit back and well pray nuthing bad will happen.... ehehehehe marco better come home fast~~~~ i wish to molest him [*evil cackles*]

 

I third that.

Thanks alot Rukawagf for the translations, hugs ^_^

 

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever read. I am probably late to add my comment, but I will do so anyway, because I really want to. I don't support either of these two companies, meaning I am not an owner of a Hound nor a Kyle, but I like both dolls and I dream that some days I might be able to get one.

As I was looking to the comparison shots that I think Mr. Dollshe has posted, I noticed the hads especially. They drew my attention because Kyle's hands look that they simply are a bigger version of the hound hands, but on a second more detailed look, I finally understood why they drew my attention. They are just like Achilleas' hands (Achilleas is an ex of mine with long lovely fingures and beautifull hands etc etc) OMG Achilleas copied the hound hands :p The second thing I noticed was the lines in the palm. Then I looked my palm and I have the same lines too!!! Have I copied the hound' s hands or the hounds have copied mine!! I know this example sounds very stupid, but these dolls are made to resamble humans and you can't make then in many diffrent ways. Most human hands have lines like those on their palms so they made the palm like that and many men have nice long fingers, so they made the fingers like that.

After that, I saw the dollmore model doll legs on a hound torso. They fit there very nice.. aren't they? Haven't we all searched for alternative bodies or heads for our hybric dolls?? Should companies start sueing each other because the resin colour matches or the head hole or the neck circumastances are the same? Besides both dolls have almost the same dimentions, so it's very natural that the legs or other parts would be interchangable.

I also saw the markings on the inside of the two bodies. Now this is a dead give away, but why would someone who wants to copy something and then sell it, would let something like that happen! Personally if I would to copy something and claim it as my own, I would try to erase all the evidence that show I am a copy cutter. Leaving evidence like that is stupid. Maybe there is something there that while creating both dolls left a mark. I don't know that for sure.

Finally the chest and torso. They are very very similar in both dolls, with the exception that hounds have a 3 pieces body vs Kyle who has a 2 pieces body. Someone can say that Dollmore just did this to cover the fact that they copied the hound body. Perphaps it is true. Why Dollmore picked a desing for their 70cm dolls, that looks so similar to the other and only line of 70cm male dolls. They could have done it so diffrently if they wished! They could have made a 70 cm torso that resambles the delf engineering!! And after that the CP delf company could have started arguing with them! Once again I am trying to say that all the dolls are quite simiral to each other and there aren't many ways a doll can't be made. In fact there are huge similarities in many dolls and if someone wants to really create an original and diffrent bjd he should make something like Triangle Joined dolls...with allien faces and goat legs.

The last thing I want to point out myself, too, is that Mr Dollshe might have choses pictures that speak to hnis favor and also he migh have chose his words very carefully. It would be great if there was something similar done by Dollmore ,too , so that we could compare. This however, has been mention before.

I think I am done here. Once again I would like to mention that I own none of the dolls mentioned above and I am not a devoted fan of the companies mentioned above. I like both dolls equally. What I just said and did is commonly known as the "devil's lawyer"

 

Yes, thank you SO much for the translations, Rukawagf~! ^____^

 

Kittyaz, this is probably the most rational and logical post in this whole thread, and I thank you for making it.

My husband who is both a mechanical as well as electrical engineer, and has spent a great many years working with all manner of how an item is put together and functions, has studied the shots that Dollshe presented, and he finds that they clearly illustrate the differences between the dolls. Granted, he is NOT a doll sculptor, but his eye is well trained, and his measurement and math skills are unquestionable. His response to the presentation by Dollshe was to print out both sets of pictures, scale them exactly and take measurements. Though he agrees both torso's have pitting, his measurements show that they are not identical pits in size,and are not, even in the same position within the torso. Most of you will throw out any credibility he might have, because he is not a doll sculptor, but I honestly believe that having non-involved, yet knowledgeable people examine both dolls, is really the way to put this all to rest. I said this before, but I wish BOTH Dollshe and Dollmore would agree to have an outside party examine, photograph and determine the actual facts here.

I have been offline today, but read through fairly quickly and must address a couple other things.

There was an implication (forgive me, I forget who mentioned it) that Pam was in some sort of "suspicious" collusion with Dollmore. That is strictly unwarrented conjecture.
Pam shot those comparison pics as ANY owner would. How many comparison threads have we seen on all types of dolls in our own gallery? She was (in good faith, much like Dollmore shared Kyle with Dollshe by giving him one) simply comparing and sharing her new doll with us. A few days later, when this whole mess started to come out, Dollmore simply asked her if they could link to her comparison shots. If that's some sort of secret collusion, so be it, but that's all there is to it.

Her unwillingness to take her Kyle apart at this point is frankly, she'd rather just enjoy her new doll (that she has had less than a week), then get caught up in all this hostility and angst. I mean really, can you blame her?

As to the notion that Dollmore did not address the internal pitting, I think Eun Young adressed this quite well with this statement:
"Our sculptor have used circular neck joint(?) when making the joints, and these balls are generally standard size of 2mm. Therefor, every joints that are to be fitted with a ball joint will be interchangeable with another limb with a joint ball since they all have a standard size.
Currently, if you compare the 60cm and 40cm BJD's ball jointed joints, though each company has different designs and mobility power, each ball size is similar in size and the height and "age it is based on" is similar so all body, neck, hand, arm, legs, feet etc so you can easily see that they all can be interchangeable.
And this is the reason why most dolls can share the dollfie clothes, shoes and wigs.
And about the inside of the doll, during the process of making this doll (most sculpors do not feel the necessary to smoothened the inside) (translator's note: the ( __) is not written but it is implied) , we did not smooth the inside, so most dolls have defects underneath, but because of how the mold is shaped and how the body porportions are similar so it is made in a similar way, and similar sculpi/clay was used so at the similar areas, it'll have similar defects. "

Keep in mind, different languages present information in different ways. Styles of writing are different, and translation from language to language is not as exact, in terms of understanding as we might like.

I also must remind everyone that in a legal dispute, people are advised to address ONLY certain things and in certain ways. They are advised to be careful what and how they say things until a case is heard in mediation or trial.

Lastly (for this post anyway), I am NOT on EITHER side. I think that so much of the problem here, is that people are becoming so impassioned before all the REAL facts are on the table. I feel sorry for Kim IF his sculpt has indeed been pirated ( I personally am not yet convinced of that, but I have an open mind and will trust the facts and that the truth will come out), AND I feel sorry that Dollmore is being subjected to such slander, before a case, or actual evidence has been heard and determined.

I feel sad and sorry for the whole ugly situation, and hope that all of us can quit judgeing either side so harshly until we have ALL the facts. And I mean facts, not this "he said she said" stuff.

 

hmmm honestly i don't think my credibility is an issue here. but i'll write it for everyone's information anyway

And as gayle said, yes when you translate one language to another, you do lose a lot of meanings. Especially from Western to Eastern and vice versa.

That being said, I'd like to say who I am in case people do not know me.

I'm legal assistant at my day job. Meaning I'm a secretary at a law firm.
My NIGHT job however, I'm translator and Assistant Editor of Ice Kunion. They are better known in Korea as Shi-Gong-Sa Publishing Company. It's one of the four biggest publishing Company in Korea. Also, at my law firm I translate for my lawyers every day. So I am used to translating on the spot, as well as translating in writing while taking my time.

Though I admit, a lot of meanings may have lost, I did my best to make this translation more "literal" than "loose" as in, if she said the word, "similar" i have used exactly that. Normally I play around with words to make them flow better, but that's when Im translating a literature work. THIS is not. So I decided to forget trying to make the grammar "flow" better but make it more "literal" It really took me a long time because I had to make it soooo literal, trying to figure out WHAT the writer origionally intended to say.

Also, i just found out DOA user: Shoofy is Korean. She can definetly take over the job if necessary or even give second opinion about my translations if it's not done to everyone's satisfactory.



And other issues Gayle addressed, I'm not gonna respond since it really doesn't have anything to do with me right now ^-^;;;;


EDIT: Oh yeah and one thing. Gayle is SOOO correct. we ALL should be proud and honored that dollmore wants to use PamSD's shots. i mean she took those pics BEFORE this mess. it was a comparison shot done because so many ppl wanted to know. I DO NOT think PamSD is conspiring with dollmore in anyway and it is VERY ridiculous to think so considering she took those pictures before this problem was addressed on DOA :P


EDIT 2:
I graduated college with History and English Literature major if that helps me more XD (wow it's becoming a resume~~~ )

 

See, Gayle, if I had a Kyle, I'd be eager to proof that Dollshe is wrong. We know it is perfectly within her right not to take pictures for us. But we also have the right to wonder if it might be bacause she wants to hide something.
Frankly, courts take awhile, and having owner pictures is a much easier way to settle any disputes.

As for your husband, there are artists here who are just as trained as he is and have said the opposite. But, it does not take a "trained" eye to see the similarities and differences in the pictures. But, I want to know where you see the differences, specifically. (And by that I don't mean the head and torso)

Until then, we'll continue to keep up to date with the awsome translations of Rukawagf.

 

There is one issue that has come up in this thread multiple times that has bothered me a great deal.

A shocking number of people seem to be saying that something cannot be considered a "copy" unless it looks exactly like the source material. In other words, some people are saying that yes, Dollmore may have used Hound as a base, but if they did it doesn't matter, because Dollmore went on to reshape parts of that base. By this standard, such alterations make the resulting doll "their own work."

This bothers me. A lot. I am a teacher, and I struggle every day to help kids understand the difference between doing their own work and taking shortcuts built on the labor of others. I would never allow a child to "write" a paper by copying someone else's essay and then altering words and phrases to "make it their own." If using bits of someone's else's work is unavoidable -- for example, when doing a research paper about a poem, in which you obviously must incorporate bits of the poem -- the borrowed portions must be credited. And one does not just footnote direct quotes -- one even footnotes borrowed ideas! Failing to do so constitutes plagiarism, and will get you booted from most high schools and colleges faster than you can say the word immoral.

It's not just in the academic world that this sort of thing matters. Try pulling this "shortcut" stunt in most business settings and it will get you fired. If I teach my students it's OK to create works in that manner, I am setting them up for future failure.

It disheartens me to see anyone in a hobby as artistic and unique as this one supporting the idea that it is OK to claim sole credit for a work that has been based in part on someone else's.

I'm not saying that the verdict is in on Kyle. But please, those of you trying to defend Dollmore, try to find better ground than "the dolls look different now" at various points in the mold. In the end, that is not the point. The point is how the doll was created and credited -- not the look.

 

Is it from the U2 song "One"?

I've been following this thread with interest, and right now am in the middle. I want to see what will happen if this does go to court, since then an objective third party would be examining all the evidence. It's very sad that this whole thing has happened though, and I hope that things get worked out.

 

I think that if those marks do exist inside Kyle, there are going to be some factory workers getting real busy with some sandpaper before any more Kyles are shipped out.

 

I know this is sort of late to jump in on this, but I'd just like to clarify that dollmore has used a V1.2 Hound in their comparison pics. They are Hounds with the broader chest of the v.2s, but with the ankle/wrist caps and the lack of a shoulder hole that the v.1s have. They where dolls that where made around October last year, before they started out with the V.2 bodies. I can take pics if anyone needs it, as I have one.

The V.2 Hounds have shoulder holes very similar to that of Kyle.

I won't bother stating my opinion, as I guess theres already been enough of that.

 

A couple of people have mentioned this shot posted by Dollmore;


and how the joints must actually different, because in the above image Kyle's joint appears narrower than the Hound's. But in the picture Kyle's arm is actually turned at a different angle to the Hound's. I took pictures of my own Hound's arm at both angles and when turned, his joint is almost identicle to Kyle's in the image.
Here are my pics:


He's a Hound v2 ordered in September 2006, btw.

 

Rukawagf: Thank you so much for translating!! XD I guess unless you really look at the prints on the inside closely, it's hard to tell for sure.

The way I've understood dolls to be made has been that it's first sculpted in clay and then the inside is hollowed out then it's put through molding and casting in resin. So the way the patterns on the inside goes is kind of like a finger print, because even if all dolls have similar flaws, I think it's highly improbable -if not downright impossible -for the markings on the inside where they hollowed out the clay to look exactly the same. That can only happen if they cast from the same mold of a doll.

So if Dollshe could take Dollmore to court and get some kind of expert to take a really close look and identify the marks, they could probably say for sure if Dollmore's Kyle is a copy of Dollshe's Hound.

I just tried to get a look at the markings inside my own Hound, but I've sueded him and without taking him apart entirely, I can't get to what I want... >.>;;;