The Dollshe side of the Dollshe/Dollmore copy issue *translated statement page 27*

Anyone actually know anything about when the court case is going to take place?

 

As a legal assistant as my job, I can tell you that it normally takes 2 years to get to court. ^^;;;

normally.

it can be settled faster at times though. I think one of the fastest would be 2 months - 6 months.

the reason is mostly because the lawyers must gather information, find experts, INTERVIEW experts, and because jury would find it boring if an expert gets on the court and talk about things they do NOT understand, a lot of the times, expert talks are written/recorded or video taped recorded to be used in court.

Also they need EXACT or CLOSE estimate of profit loss and property damage etc. measuring that will take a long time seeing how much damage Dollmore took in the cyber world

also (estimate of 20-30) questions will be asked to the plaintiff and defendant, in this case, Mr. Dollshe and Dollmore Rep. etc. all files and facts gathered must be sent back and forth so everyone has the same facts so they can all think of defensive answers for any attacking questions.

oh. and you need to file papers to court as to which witnesses they are brining, which facts and evidence they are bringing, etc etc etc

the legal process takes a loooooooong time.

 

O.O

I hope this gets resolved quickly, they are both beautiful dolls

I am a dollshe fan, and do hope Kim Ki Yong wins the fight for his beautiful creations

I hope that the dollmore doll is not taken from the market though, he is beautiful as well.

 

Now I could be totally off base, as I'm not sure how simplfied the casting illustrations are.

But, I've done bronze casting, where you set up a gating system to pour in bronze and let out air. You usually attach these at reasonably hidden places so you have less work grinding them off.

To me, that one big blob looks like the remains of a gating system, and it would make sense to put it in a similar place on a doll of a similar size, especially if the people doing the casting had similar training.

I have no idea about the other bumps...but also from the bronze experience, I have some bronze castings that still have my fingerprints from the orginal wax/clay originals...so maybe we should see if there are any reconizable fingerprints in the doll? If a Kyle had one of Mr. Dollshe's actuall fingerprints that would kind of end the argument right there.

Otherwise I have no opinion. I like both of the dolls, and I'm too poor to afford either of them either. (But now we know a Hound head would fit...I remember someone asking about that)

 

Ow, they do look a lot like now that they're side by side. :/ I never would have even thought so without these pictures. Too bad, because I was thinking that K-doll body for a doll of mine, I would originally have gone with a dollshe body, but the resin doesn't match.
Oh well, I'll go on ahead and save my pennies for my Saint then. :3
I hope everything turns out nicely.

 

It seems like normally the gates for BJD are external and located along the seams. Even if they were artifacts from the sprues (channels where the resin was poured), they wouldn't all be the same shape because different workers finishing the dolls would have snipped them off at different lengths and sanded them differently.

 

I've just got to weigh in on this, though I don't know what good any of this speculation really does. It seems people have taken three sides--1. Kyle is a copy and the pictures prove it. 2. Kyle is different and the pictures prove it. 3. They like both dolls and don't care and won't unless there is a court case with an outcome.

I have looked at all the photos and, for myself, the dolls look quite different from each others, so I fall in category 2.

All dolls are made to represent a human figure and thus have numerous qualities in common. All BJDs have additional commonalities in order to qualify as a BJD--resin, stringing, etc.

Certainly if a Dollshe doll was used as a mold, the culprits know and one might guess that will eventually come out. If they sculpted their own mold, it seems a shame that their reputation is being tarnished in this way. As Dollmore has made other dolls, including model dolls, in the past, it mystifies me that they would have cast from another company's doll, especially when they were capable of making such extensive changes in knee and elbow joints, torso, size of neck, and so on. Meanwhile, I believe in innocent until proven guilty, though proving a case like this might be very difficult. Perhaps Dollshe can come up with the original sculpt and mold!

 

Having looked at all the photos, honestly the only ones that make me suspect are the interior photos. I have a Model girl Ipsae, and Kyle's body looks FAR more like hers than the dollshe boys, in my opinion. I'd love to see comparison shots involving the girls, just so we could all see how similar they actually are.

But I love Kyle, and I love the dollshe boys. And I'm trying really hard to think of a way to grow a money tree so i can buy all of them. ^_~

 

Kyle's body looks far more like a Model girls body than a Hounds for one simple reason IT IS. The body is engineered exactly on the same order as the girls, right down to the locking center point on the chest joint. The collarbones are the same as the Model girls, the legs are the same, the arm structure, everything about him is Model design, not Hound design. He poses like the Model girls, not like a Hound as well. Again, I really wish everyone could handle both dolls to see this for yourself.

Unfortunately, due to loyalties and high emotion, I am sure that some people will stand firm on their resolve that this is a copy, even if the courts rule otherwise.

Both companies reputations will be left with some measure of damage, regardless of the outcome. I understand that Kim is upset, but if he would have simply followed legal proceedings without bringing this all so agressively into the public eye, it might have had a chance to get resolved before so much damage was done. Kim may not realize this, but his actions here have hurt his own reputation among some collectors as well. As I said before, no one wins here and everyone gets hurt.

It's a HUGE shame. I say that alot in this thread, but it's my overiding feeling about this whole mess.

 

How many threads on this forum are about people being mean to someone's doll?

I have to admit, if I were in Pam's place....just getting my beautiful doll; being thrilled with it; showing it others on this site; being willing to take nude shots and comparison shots; and answering all sorts of questions..... I would NOT be willing to let people pick him apart. How can anyone blame her for not letting this go on?

I guess we have all forgotten the Duke Rape Case! What has this got to do with the Dollmore/Dollshe problem? Well, a jump to conclusion for one thing.

I can't help but feel this is wrong....why can't we let the Doll companies figure this out? Why do we feel compelled to jump to quick answers? And most of all why are we all experts in the art of mold making and casting? If we are expert mold makers; then why are we all whining that we don't have the cold hard cash for dolls? Mold makers get paid quite well....especially it they are good at what they do.

I refuse to take sides in this. Someone once told me....and I hope she's reading this....."Dolls are not to fight over, they are made to make people happy." Truer words were never spoken....

 

The fact that Mr. Dollshe is bringing the dolls to fairs puts to rest some of my qualms about the pictures, but I still would like to believe that Dollmore wouldn't do that. You can say I'm delusional if you'd like but that won't sway my belief.

 

Oriscany, no one has said they were expert doll makers. =/ People have said that they were artists, Lizzard is a teacher, and Gayle mentioned her husband as an electrical expert or something non art/doll related. But other then that, people have been stating their opinions.

As for quick answers- that's because owner pictures of Kyle would shut alot of people up =) that would settle things for them. But, since Pam doesn't want to take pictures, and Dollmore certainly wouldn't take inside pictures, we are only left with Dollshe's pictures.

I'm not sure about you, but I don't see a fight here, I see discussion, debate, interest.

 

kokoryta....I would hope Gayle would know I didn't mean her husband. I know he's an engineer and i have respect for his observations.

 

hm..I don't see why people feel that everyone is taking sides.

Personally I see most people here observing the situation and speculating, rather than having a sort of "I like side A, so can't like/consider/respect side B" attitude.

There's no need to form an allegiance or anything, whether or not you think it's a copy. You can think he's a copy but you don't have to hate Dollmore for it...Hating Dollmore doesn't do anything to help Dollshe, and vice versa, you don't have to think Mr Dollshe is a nut if you are a Dollmore fan!

That's like wasted energy if you do...

 

Is anyone else in this thread expecting a Kyle that was shipped before this fiasco started? Perhaps we can get them to take pictures for us since they would have shipped before Dollmore could have sanded down or eliminated their damning inner bumps.

Unfortunatly I'm pretty sure anything shipped after this debacle started will have evidense removed if it ever existed >.>

 

I think this was mentioned WAY back, but someone said that the Hound hands were one piece and Kyle hands were two.

I have comparison shots of all Dollshe hands on my Bermann faq.



Here are the comparison shots of Kyle's hands for ref.

http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0733k.JPG
http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0729k.JPG
http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0731k.JPG

Hopefully this answers WHOMEVER'S question about the hands. Sorry if this seems off now. I think it was about 4 pages back. Teaches me for being off line for a day, huh?

 

I'm also not sure why people are feeling the need to take sides.
No matter what the evidence says on this one, I do not think that ALL of dollmore needs to go down for this mistake. I can say with almost 100% certainty that my dollmore kid is a dollmore original... and there are plenty of originals beyond that as well. ^_^

I think I fall into the middle category. I think the debate is an interesting one, but I also would like to let the whole thing get settled in court. Copy or no copy doesn't really matter as much at this point, simply because everyone will always have their own opinions. So I can just have my own thoughts on the matter, and let it flow from there ^^

That being said, Seeing all these "dollmore vs. Dollshe" type banners...and hearing about personal boycotts of the entire dollmore site once this is over regardless of what happens, furious live journal posts, ...those things are a concern to me. This is the kind of stuff that is going to create a lot of anger between users.

Now I also might sound like some dollmore fan in this post, and that I am only saying these things to ensure the good name of my favorite company. But I can guarantee that I enjoy certain aspects of both companies in question. (Hell, lots of other companies too for that matter) Picking favorites here is not something I could do. I also never intend to purchase a model doll Kyle, It's just not the kind of doll I would get I guess.

My real worry here is of an eventaul internal dollmore (or even dollshe) blacklisting between members, based on the fact that clear "sides" have started to form. However, I will also say that this debate for the most part has been informative discussion, and people are taking this in a fairly orderly fashion as far as this site is concerned. ^__^

EDIT: Because I never make much sense XD

 

It's rather premature for anyone to be talking about a Dollmore ban, particularly as the mods have stated repeatedly that they're not even considering such a move at this stage (and likewise with the DollZone controversy as well). The ForeverDoll ban was only brought in after legal action against ForeverDoll was settled in Volks' favour.

It really is jumping the gun for so many people to repeatedly say "oh, I hope Dollmore won't be banned here!" when the mods have equally repeated that it wasn't even under consideration right now, and they - like the rest of us - are waiting to hear the outcome of the now-pending legal action between Dollmore and Dollshe, which could take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to resolve.

People are perfectly at liberty to make their own decisions as to how they stand on the issue; however mob rule is not how policy has ever been decided on DoA, and long may that be the case! So can we please have an end to speculation on banning until such time as the mods make an official announcement? All this speculation achieves is to alienate and worry those who already own Dollmore dolls.

This whole furor is over ONE model of Dollmore doll - the Model-M boy, Kyle. At no point has any aspersion been cast on any other Dollmore model.

 

Woops..XD Just realized that I really didn't keep that one point clear in my post. I also know there will be no actual dollmore ban. I have read the mods post as well, and I know that a ban is defiantly no where in the future. I am actually not worried about a true actual banning of dollmore dolls. ^__^

I was thinking that if sides are being taken, that there is an increased likelihood of an internal blacklisting between members, based on the fact that they own a dollmore doll. Which I do happen to think is a ridiculous action, no matter what anyone’s position is on the matter. It’s no ones fault on DOA that any of this happened, and I am worried about some members taking the fight against people that have nothing to do with it. I can go edit that "ban" phrase out of my post.