The handcrafted quality, 3D technology, and the future of BJD

Hmmm...even if someone like Jun Planning does use that technology, its no gaurantee that their dolls will be successfull. Their basic designs have to be appealing, their needs to be a certain level of quality that's kept, and the jointing needs to be functional. No matter how high or low tech they go, those factors are always going to be there.

 

As long as the design is original, it shouldn't really matter how the doll was created. I think people have a right to know which method has been used, but otherwise the dolls should be treated the same, hand-made or created using 3D technology.

(However, I admit that while 3D technology completely fascinates me, I do not have a very good knowledge base of how the process is carried out.)

 

as far as piracy goes, I'd be inclined to be less concerned about people scanning a doll into their machine and bootlegging it that way--as people have mentioned, it's more expensive than just making a mold from the doll--and more concerned about people pirating others' digital designs. these days one can find leaked DVD rips of movies sometimes even before they hit theatres, as people with access to the digital information can copy it fairly easily.

I like the DollsTown initiative to show a little bit of the sculpting process, because although it's hardly proof that a doll has been crafted originally it's certainly a gesture of good faith. plus it's really interesting! I'd love to see it on other companies' sites, although I don't think it would make a big difference in my purchasing habits.

I also don't feel that it's necessary to separate BJDs into digitally and manually rendered, so long as they still adhere to the "asian aesthetic." and when it comes to asymmetry...well, a good graphic artist should be able to build that into his or her 3D model! I can imagine that there's a kind of accidental, artless quality to some of the asymmetries found in hand-sculpted dolls that might be particularly appealing, but just because the potential for complete symmetry exists in digital rendering doesn't mean one should assume that all digitally produced sculpts would be perfectly symmetrical. so really, I come down squarely on the side of diversity! diversity and information! and pretty pictures of slightly creepy half-finished dolls!

 

This is a very interesting discussion. I have to admit that with all the digital base models there seem to be floating around the internet and in programs like Poser, there is the feeling that an all digital made doll might have had some "help". However, being in the process of sculpting a doll myself, I have to say it would be very nice to be able to "scan" in arm and leg pieces so that the two sides are at least the same size

 

That struck a chord with me.

Perhaps in the future, some dolls might be both hand sculpted AND scanned.

There was a doll recently that I thought looked like his face had been duplicated by half (can't remember where) but like when you hold a mirror down the middle of your face and you see the same half making a whole face....it's a whole face but it looks strange because both sides are exactly the same but reversed....just not quite right.

I do think however as the technology becomes more accessible and cost effective, that many companies will take advantage of the scanning method to create arms and legs in reverse to shorten the sculpting time. I could see it being used as a tool just like a knife sponge.

That said, I would hope that heads continue to be sculpted by hand since none of us are completely symmetrical and the "perfection" looks strange on a doll. There is no reason however that the tech should be discarded just because there is opportunity for bootlegging...imagine if they stopped making movies for sale for that reason....how would I get my LOTR fix?

 

Hm... This is a hard topic.
Well, when it comes to choosing what you buy in a shop, what section to you run to...?
Some people go to 'organic' and heck, that sounds fine. Others go to hand-made, right?
Think about it...
It's funny, since we trust machines to do a lot for us these days, but really, you'd go for hand-made first, right? Then again, maybe not.
As rage_razor said, we have to pay more for hand-sculpted dolls, but come on, you'd think the money is better spent.
Just think - though you'd be inclined to buy something hand-made, the computer you're viewing this from was made by people and machines...
So, you can copy designs; big deal! It's the person behind it all, in the end.
Computers can be used for good and bad. ANYTHING can be.
Munch on that statement for a bit.

 

to be perfectly honest, i loathe most applications of 3D techniques. perhaps this bias comes from the days i spent feeling maya tearing at my soul piece by piece while i tried to model and animate. i have to say the experience put a loathing in my heart, but there's something else that makes the idea of a doll (or art) created by 3D programs not sit well with me...

for me, something that is handcrafted (where i know the artist sculpted, painted, or drew a piece. where i can see the imperfections, thumb prints, paint brush strokes) has more of a life-like quality. that piece is alive to me, imbued with the soul of the artist. for me, such work is visceral, and because of that i appreciate it more.

don't get me wrong, i know people who work with 3D programs put just as much love and care into their work. i have a friend who is a modeller and his attention to detail is both bordering insane and breath taking. but i still cannot find it in me to appreciate this type of work as much as i would if hands were to physically craft it.

that being said, it must be noted that using 3D technology does not necessarily eliminate the process of sculpting by hand. most maquettes that are later used as 3D characters and creatures in film are first sculpted by human hands, then scanned. if doll artists were to use this technique, i'd appreciate their dolls more because i'd know there were real hands involved in the process.

i'll add that with that said, i think 3D technology would limit the appeal of bjds to me, whether it would to others is, well, up to them.

i don't see how advancements in technology would significantly hurt or improve the hobby because as i see it, computers only offer precision and symmetry- something that artists can already come pretty damned close to achieving via their own skill or molds. i think if 3D methods become popular, we could see more artists and companies pop up, but from what i know 3D sculpting software and hardware are really expensive, and using a company to do it for you is expensive as well, so i don't imagine too many artists jumping on that train.

as for copying dolls-that's being done by making molds already.

 

This is a very fascinating topic that I never realised. Does someone perhaps have a good link to information regarding these scanners to fully explain how they are programmed and worked to put into perspective the arcane artistry in using such technology? I have to say I am not clued up enough on this and feel quite ignorant.
All I can offer as opinion is that there is something sacred about the hand sculpted in most objects. To me, the imperfections are what make each doll unique and the idea of someone making the doll for me is very intimate.
However, there is also the question, how does this technology help health and safety wise for the workers who have to work with resin?

 

I think DollTown's concern is a large company could mass-produce such BJD and sell them at a much cheaper price. You could also scan in someone else's sculpt and replicate it, putting very little effort into the creation process. However on the other side, I think established non-bootleg BJD companies could use this for their benefit. They could hand sculpt the design, most likely the face, and then have the computer as their model. It seems to me that would save a lot of time, especially with mold-creation. And would be easier on body creation since like has been mentioned already, it would be easy to mirror and get good symmetry.

 

It's the same concern that's universally had with bootlegs in all the art forms.
I frankly don't think most serious collectors of BJDs are interested in dolls that are potentially bootlegs/mass produced. They will still be lining up to buy dolls from places like Dollstown. I can understand artists not wanting their work to be ripped off, but the reality is that Dollstown and other artists can only produce a limited number of doll heads and bodies. I have had trouble getting the doll parts I want from them for a long time because they have really short production windows. I am patient and willing to wait, then pay a higher price to get a real Dollstown, but a lot of customers wouldn't bother with that. See the "Anybody know where I can get a cheap dollie now?" thread for a potential prime example. That is who would be buying the mass-produced BJD, not the fans of the artists and sculptors.

So it's really two different markets and, unless Dollstown is somehow going to find a way to make cheaper dolls in large quantities itself, it probably shouldn't be too concerned - any mass-production is not going to cut into the Dollstown sales because people buying that stuff would not be buying a Dollstown in the first place. .

 

On the main topic of the thread, no, I don't feel it's going to "hinder the advancement of the hobby." People are still going to want to sculpt and make dolls by hand. Customers will still want to buy those dolls. It's more likely that new people will be drawn to the hobby who wouldn't have come for the hand sculpt but will come for a cheaper, mass produced and perhaps worse quality doll, so it'll just be a different market.

Overall, I have to say I don't really care about "the hobby" as some sort of en masse entity. I care about individual artists and hope that there will be enough people buying their works to allow them to continue, but when I see, for example, Bishonen House selling a lot of dolls to people who aren't even IN "the hobby" but just like those dolls as being very cool examples of art, I see no reason to worry about the future of "the hobby" en masse. Good art survives on its own merits, it's not dependent on "The Hobby" or "The Trend" or "The Fad" etc.

 

I'm all for 'fabbed' abjds.

My myself have little to no CAD skills, it's actually easier for me to make things in RL.

However, I look to desktop fabbing as the future. Yes, there will be people that abuse it, just as there are people who abuse photoshop to digitally trace images. However, I think it could lead to a lot of innovation.

I would love it if a few years down the road, people passed around custom bjd blueprints online. Massive collaborations, spanning the globe. It's relatively easy to program a digital stop, to make the files 'printable' a limited number of times by individuals. It'd be awesome if DoA all worked together to create a doll design that everyone on the site could help with, and then OWN. There are a lot of bjd fans that cannot afford a hand-crafted doll, and this would give them the chance to gain experience for when they purchase their truely special doll.

I'd pay more for a traditionally-made doll, of coarse.

 

Having worked with digital imaging and 3D software, I can definitely say that the tools themselves do not totally eliminate human craftsmanship. Vertices still have to pulled to form contours (by mouse, if not by hand), maps and layers still have to be shuffled and re-shaped to create form (especially if the model has to be aesthetically pleasing).

So in essence, the product is still "handmade"; the method of creation is just.... virtual (?) instead of using physical media.
I don't think they should be held on a "different level", but perceptions of their quality should be taken into consideration with slightly different criteria. Like 2D digital art!

Like others have mentioned, the nearest thing a 3D program can autonomously create is symmetry in an model. It can't magically make detailed forms by itself- that's all user input. So I don't necessarily think this will revolutionize doll-making by companies- merely correction of the final product.

In that light, I cant really see it affecting my decision to buy a doll purely based on artistic method.

Integrity, however, is a different story.

I can see where the fear of boot-legging could come into play, but judging by the some quotes of 3D printer manufacturers(a few here, and here ...would a upcoming company that needed this form of media (as a result of poor artist skills, or lack of creativity) really have the capital to purchase something like this?

Most of the rates these machines are going for start at about $18,900, going up to $32,200, not including the prices of the actual material to print the sculpt. Wouldn't that company already have to have been in business for a while (i.e. enough to time to correct mistakes on previous molds and generally improve in skill) to be able to afford this? (I dunno- can someone clarify this if I'm wrong? )

This is a pretty costly and round-about way of copying- I can't really see a desperate company going with this route if they're in it to maximize profit. They'd lose too much on this initial investment to recoup that cost later on and they've already got their reputation for..awkward products to overcome. I can't see consumers immediately hopping on the bandwagon because of this.

 

I don't know if you define 3D as "less worthy" art? I personally couldn't care less if the doll is sculpted 100% by hand of modelled in a 3D program as long as the doll looks the way I want it to look. And 3D is not a shortcut to anything O__o It takes time and loads of skill to be able to model something that looks really good. It's not like it's a push of a few buttons and then it's finished. It's like a person at school once told me, that digital art isn't real art since the computer is doing everything for you. As a digital artist I find such accusations rather rude u__u

 

I know this is old.. but I feel I should put in my 2 cents. I don't really like the article posted; they seem to not have much knowledge of the 3D process and seem to think you can just get an image and bam, a few hours later you have a good model. As many have stated, 3D modeling is very much an art on its own - just a different kind. I think the ease in symmetry is made up for by the difficulty of making good topology (the polygons the model is made up from).

Also, as other have said, it would be rather stupid to bootleg a doll using this method. The cheapest price I could find for getting a SD sized head produced was $200. There is also a lot of work involved because all proceses leave a type of grain that would need to be smoothed. Making a whole body would not only cost a small fortune, but would be very difficult to joint. Most 3D modeling programs are geared towards either engineering (like Solidworks) or art (like 3D studio). It is hard to mechanically perfect something more organic like this.

I have made a head - for anyone interested in the process. You can see the grain - and that is with the smoothest material I could find (ObjPolyJet):

I have to say - doing it one the computer probably took me way more time than it would have to sculpt. I just happen to be better at 3D modeling. The body I am making in clay because I can not afford to get one printed up. If I manage to make enough money I would LOVE to make a whole doll. I am a huge perfectionist and I am on a computer all the time anyway, so it really appeals to me. (I also have all my process files and my topology drawings and such to prove I modeled it from scratch).

 

Huh yeah it is an old topic xD But I guess i'll say something anyway...

I prefer hand sculpted things... I like traditional artforms.. I've done digital art for a time but have reverted back to traditional art because it feels good to have something in my hands, to have an original.

I have a love/hate relationship with new technology but I think an artform like dollmaking should be kept in its traditional roots. Its like the difference between a handsewn kimono and one sewn entirely by machine. Sure they might in the end be the same product with the same quality, but there's something special about one sewn by hand.. it's a part of the history of the garment and certainly a lot of soul is transfered into it because it has been worked with with the hands, without the aid of computers...

 

@Firefly5003. That is amazing.

I have neither a love nor a hate towards 3d sculpted dolls. The result is pretty much the same and both require a separate type of skill. I would find it stupid for the 3d designed dolls to be put in a separate 'genre' to ABJD. They would look and feel and tick all the required boxes for ABJD, no where does it say "must be sculpted by hand" very narrowminded in a technologically forward thinking world.

As far the hobby is concerned I do not think it would hinder or advance them, I already know some companies do this, As far as costs and other things are concerned it doesn't seem to be cheaper to do it either way it is however a nice way to get those from computer art to sculpt beautiful things without having to physically sculpt. As before, two entirely different art forms why should one person be disallowed to make art just because they cannot sculpt with clay? THAT attitude will hinder the hobby for sure.

 

Physical media artists have had this same argument with digital media artists for years when it comes to craphic programs like Painter. Usually, in the end, it is recognized that digital media requires a different sat of challenges and skills, and ultimately neither is easy to do. Physical media artists remain defensive afraid for no particular reason that they will become outdated and unwanted, and the world goes on.

I personally think I would prefer a hand crafted sculpt, for the different sort of life that direct contact with your media gives it.

 

The main thing that concerns me is whether the piece is original, and if the sculpt is appealing to me. If the bjd in question is original and I find it captivating, I wouldn't mind whether it came to be via human hand or 3D technology.

I like to think I prefer stylistically the quirky proportions of handmade, but say someone offered a 1/3 or 1/4 scale bjd made from a scan of an actual human with appealing "imperfections". Really, it always comes down to the sculpt and the artistic integrity of the piece. I wouldn't appreciate it if the 3D artist or company said "I sculpted this by hand", when they used 3D imaging.

At the same time I don't think 3D tech is inherently more inclined to tweaking existing sculpts. A good majority of the sculpts out there look suspiciously alike to me. I hold certain heads in my hands and see "Oh. That's a sanded and re-worked F-09, wow" or "Oh no, another re-worked Unoa". It's always a joy to see something that's completely original, but if you ask me, it's very rare, no matter how the doll was made.

Raven