The handcrafted quality, 3D technology, and the future of BJD

I have to agree.

I honestly think that the intent of the artist will shine through no matter what the medium. If they're a fussy symmetry junkie, it will emerge digital or traditional; if they're willing to explore more realistic and natural options, that will, too. It comes down to something I call "give a *bleep*", and the general concept is this: the people who care to do something well will find the way to do that, and get the idea out there in the best possible form.

I think it's mostly that so many people have different ideas as to what 'the best possible form' is. For instance, in traditional sculpting, perfect symmetry would be a sign of mastery -- it's the reverse digitally. That's a technical thing, in a sense; it's impressive because it's 'the hard thing' traditionally. It's easy to look at a different medium that handles 'the hard thing' easily and say the whole thing is easy, since it handles 'the hard thing', when demonstrating technical mastery of 'the hard thing' actually shouldn't be the goal (the goal being something with appeal/character/personality). So there's a lot of 'grass is always greener' when in my opinion is that the reality is, reality lies in the middle, along with character and personality in the finished work. That tends to get lost in a lot of the discussions because of the 'but you get this part easy, and this other part is hard' when the reality/character/personality really is, to me, the real core of it all, since the technical side balances out in the good and bad points for any given tool.

 

So long as the doll is original and I like them, sure!

There was an artist on the joint who was actually making a doll this way.

 

Agreed. Creating a doll isn't just about the greatest display of skill handling the medium. One can be greatly skilled on a computer or at oldschool handiwork, and create beautiful dolls, but completely suck at giving them character. I think that would be the quality that lifts the doll up, far above the digital-vs-analogue discussion, because creating a great character is something that isn't attached to a single medium. Beauty can be (symmetry and such), but character definitely can't.

 

I think any way that lets the artist enjoy its work and successfully create what they intended to do is awesome!

May I ask those of you who do work with 3D digital art, is it possible to make a prototype with clay, to see that joints work as they should, "scan" it and then continue to work with it digitally to perfect it aesthetically?

 

I know the guys of Weta who made the CGI for Lord of the Rings did exactly that for the trolls and such. So yes, it's possible.

 

If you use with ZBrush for making a model I guess this gap between working with real material and digital modeling is disappearing coz this program is based on imitating the sculpting process, and yeah of course you have nothing to hold in your hands until you print it, but you need to have the same skills as any sculptor do, so I don't see the reason to put it on the different level with a real sculpting.

 

Actually 3d is way harder then it looks lol. Theres a big difference especially in perspective itself. BJD are dolls of aesthetic value, not so functional (Save for the joints). Its easy to do engineering stuff using 3D as there are well proven ideas behind them (even that is not simple) but if you work on a doll in 3d space, you really need to visualize it in your mind, from how light falls on the subject to the subtle curves that can make a difference. Also without the feel of the object its actually harder to sculpt.

Now add on the cost of a system that can do the modelling in a proficient manner, also as a business I dont think piracy should be the way and some of the better software do cost a fortune. Add in the controller software, the CNC or 3d Printing machine, I dont think many doll companies can sustain that form of capital easily.

To really say this argument is similar to the Film Vs Digital (Not the same process but the movement from traditional to technology), ultimately the equipment can only aid you, the user still have to put substantial effort in creating the art disregarding the format. Infact for the case of film, its true that one can do fantastic thing in photoshop but there is still the "film feel" that never gets old. If the output is good, why restrict oneself rather then enjoy ?

For me I will buy a doll as long as its a original sculpt, digital or traditional, as either will have to put in countless hours to get that sculpt that you and I may enjoy.

 

This is absolutely possible -- but it also is a pretty big expense for large pieces. (Owning the scanner, even bigger expense.) 3d scanners spit out something that typically needs a lot of work, according to the folks I have spoken with who work with them. The company I sell through has worked with one, and talking to the artist who had to work with the result is probably enough to scare most folks away from this idea. (They had bodyscanned a lady to make a body shape from, and it did not exactly work as easily as even they imagined it would. ) I initially thought it could prove interesting as well, but according to him, you essentially have to redo everything it spits out anyway, like tracing in 3D... which can be done from good multi-angle photo reference almost as well for considerably less cash.

I really do think looking at how the special effects industry is using this tech is a great way to go about looking at the tools available. They've always had some of the most innovative problem-solving solutions, and end up using them in some unexpected and insightful ways.

That's what I've been working in recently to learn the ins and outs of it. It really is a 'crossover' program in a lot of ways; if the technical side of the brain can get past the (OMG this does how many different crazy things?) interface, it is a lot more like art than 'science' than most modeling programs. Granted, I've only puttered with three others, but those three were seemingly impenetrable to various degrees. The design philosophy of the program is quite different, along with the concept behind what it's supposed to do. It's more focused on art than tech as compared to a lot of software, which makes it far easier for a lot of traditional artists to adopt since it doesn't make you worry as much about some of the things traditional modeling applications focus on by comparison (unless for some reason you want to). It's what makes it pretty great for 2d art prints of a model as an image, or for rapid prototyping.

 

Thank you Puppit and Surreality for answering my question! That is so fascinating! Hopefully, in time, there will come techniques that will make all that easier. I love this stuff!

 

I have to agree that as far as the project is original there isn't all this difference between modeling with 3D or handsculpting modeling,
both way need skills, surely different skills but you need to get familiar with, and have some talent.
I can surely do some photoshop digital picuters,but i'll never be able to use ZBrush as well as handsculpting something.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9550469.stm

I was working in class today when I remembered an old post idea I had when I first saw this on TV.
It can print with resin. So does this mean that in the future BJDs could be made with them? How would you feel if that happened and would it be a good thing or a bad thing for the hobby as a whole? And if it DID come true, would these creations be allowed on this forum?

Personally, this looks like a good idea. Traditional casting isn't a quick or easy process. It fails frequently and it results in a lot of slightly off casts being thrown away. It's not like it could get rid of the jobs altogether. Someone will still need to design them (The scanner could scan an original copy or maybe the whole doll is designed virtually using a 3d program?), someone will still need to quality check, sand and paint it if required. It's just that it wouldn't take as long and would be more cost efficient. I'm still undecided regarding allowing them on this forum. The lines are already blurred enough sometimes.

 

There is already a thread on this topic >link<

 

I was wondering about somebody else having posted one like this. that's why I added the extra question of "Should they be allowed on here?" to at least give this thread some other purpose if there was.

 

Technically speaking, they are already on here, though they are traditionally cast. (3D printing is far, far too expensive for production line work at this time.) There's a few notes in the existing thread about that.

Edit: To give you some idea of what I mean by 'considerably more costly', I used the cost estimator on one of the sites out there that specializes in this. The dimensions were to calculate something the size of a single SD thigh. That single thigh would have cost over $500 to have 3D printed through that particular company, which specializes in the resin prints and strong detail. Others vary in cost, but considering that one can buy a full doll -- all costs included -- for that same amount, I don't see 3D printing replacing traditional casting methods any time soon.

 

My question is: Why shouldn't they be? They're still BJD's. They are still created by sculptors. It's not like they are manufactured out of thin air.

But, 3d scanning isn't as easy as it looks. Traditional sculpting might takes a lot of time, but so does computer sculpting. Together with the cost, I don't think this method is beneficial to traditional sculpting and casting; it's just a different way of designing. Like surreality said: I don't think 3d printing will replace traditional methods any time soon.

 

sorry to necro this thread but I'm curious of which companies use 3D computer scupting?

 

I think either way as long as they let us know is fine. As long as the quality is gorgeous, it shouldn't matter. But hand sculpted does sound a lot more artistic. Lol.

 

Iplehouse, Fairyland and Angelsdoll, maybe a few others.

 

Soom is also supposed to work with this method...

 

I don't see anything wrong with 3D dolls, it's just a different art form. I don't think they really detract from hand sculpted dolls, or that hand sculpting is outdated or archaic. Hand made items will always have a place in the marketplace, but computer generated items have a place out there too.