The handcrafted quality, 3D technology, and the future of BJD

Intrestingly those companies that use 3D imaging to create their dolls are among the most popular. Soom and certainly Iplehouse's huge rise in popularity coincide with when they probably started using CAD. I'm curious to see why people think this is? It's an intresting point of discussion.

 

It does help that their production has gone up considerably. I don't know if this is because they use 3D imaging, but Iplehouse, Soom and Fairyland all seem to be releasing another doll every other day. The more you produce, more people will find a doll that's exactly what they were searching for and with that you'll also get a lot of free advertisement.

 

And you can't even say the dolls of these companies are even very similar. I even can't say I prefer 3D to the traditional way.

Sure I love Iplehouse...but often have my issues with Soom. Soom dolls are fascinating, but in the past there have been only 1 or 2 I would really have loved to have.

And I do not love Fairyland faces too much. Each company has their very own, typical style.

What I think about Iplehouse and Fairyland: Their bodys seem to be much more...technical. I mean, with really interesting joint solutions. If these work always the best is a whole other thing. May that be due to the added exactness you can achieve with 3D? Or has that nothing to do with it?

 

I think it's more about the ability to create well designed dolls that have wide appeal than whether or not they use 3D imaging or sculpt the old fashioned way. All the cool new technology in the world won't help a company much if they can't come up with a good design. Soom seemed to get really popular when they went to larger more realistic sculpts (and all the nifty fantasy bits didn't hurtm either). I think they found themselves a niche with in the hobby where there was a number of hobbyists ready and willing to buy that kind of doll. Likewise, Iplehouse is known for doing more ethnically specific sculpts and like Soom runs to the more realistic end of the spectrum -- they fill a specific need within the hobby that other companies don't necessarily do. Ironically, though I can appreciate them, those aren't the dolls that really appeal to me. However, the lack of appeal to myself again comes from style rather than the technology used to create them. I happen to prefer more heavily stylized dolls.

 

Do we actually have any confirmation that these companies do use rapid prototyping? I know people always say Iplehouse does and while I certainly wouldn't be surprised do we actually know for sure? Their YID process pics looks like they could be made by hand, but they could also be just part of their process. Fairyland seems even more likely to me, but again, do we actually have any proof?

And Ipledreamer, I understand the more technical feel. I think a lot of this probably just has to do with the fact that someone modeling on the computer is probably going to be a more technical person to begin with, so the style will follow suit. You are also rather forced into being technical when working in 3D. From experience, I'd say 3D definitely helps with the exactness when it comes to jointing, and there are many benefits to that, but not being able to physically move things around makes it much harder to make things that feel right, and can lead to joints that may not be the most natural looking. You can move things around in 3D, and there are ways to judge physics (which is mostly beyond my knowledge - I just guess based on what I know) but you have to try to visualize exactly how everything will move and guess the tension - it can certainly make your head spin at times. So, while you can make sure the physical shape of the part is perfect, the joint may still not end up working that well in real life.

Also, with both mediums, you generally model the body then cut the joints. But, with clay, you will probably be modifying the whole area around each joint to get everything to fit and work together (not to mention cutting is much less an exact process), and you might end up with something pretty different than your original sculpt as you test and modify. With 3D, you general just mess with the joint itself and do very little modification to the area around it, unless the shapes just won't work. I feel this can easily lead to dolls that don't move as fluidly and look sort of segmented while posing. This is just my speculation based on my experience, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

Im a 3d artist, and would be ecstatic to make my own sculpts with a 3d printer.

 

I by no means am trying to put down 3D modeling (I've tried it and know that it is not easy) however there's something about handmade things that I really love. It reminds me of simpler days when everything was made by hand and people took pride in their work and put a lot of time/commitment into making something.
if I had to choose between something handmade and something that was machine made I would almost always choose the handmade item.

I don't feel that limiting dolls to only hand sculpted artist dolls will hinder the future of ABJD, and I love seeing progress photos and think that they can definately advance this hobby as they show people how the doll was made, step by step.
The open revelation of how companies produce their dolls would most certainly influence the way I buy dolls, that would be just one more thing for me to look at before buying as I would much rather buy a handmade doll.
To me it does matter but I know that to others it doesn't, as stated above I prefer handcrafted things, however whether it's handcrafted or not the design should be original.
I think that 3D creations should be held on a different level than handcrafted dolls, they're completely different and should not be thought of as the same.

 

The way you describe this, it sounds like you're under the impression that the computer does the work for you, and human hands are not involved.

How I wish this was true! Unfortunately, it is not.

Further, if you think digital work does not involve an immensity of time and commitment, you would be further grossly mistaken.

If you wonder why people don't always appear to take as much 'pride' in digital work as they might in traditional media, you need only look to the assumptions that it takes less time, less commitment, or somehow suggests a lack of care for the resulting product (which is a reasonable interpretation of 'lack of pride' also) and an implication that digital work by default must be suspect as potentially 'not original' (which is just nasty as well as foolish to assume, particularly as recasting without digital intervention is an easier and cheaper process) for oft-cited reasons people don't discuss the intimate details of their methodology.

(Also, Firefly has some butt-kicking progress photos of her work. She is seriously an inspiration.)

Just to make the 'relevance of human hands' issue all the more clear:



There you go. My icon is a digital image. The left shows the model that was later resculpted and textured, in this case, to get the result you see on the right. Software does not do that for you. And that is starting off with an existing model -- not creating one from scratch, which is necessary when creating a doll. The difference 'human hands' make in those two images is rather clear, I should think.

 

I don't think you should seperated hand-sculpted BJD and computer 3D technique. I once saw my professor who is majoring in industrial design and he used a pen to draw directly on the computer pad. It wasn't just like doodling on the ipad. He used various techniques on the pad while he was drawing with his hands. I would love to see a 3D technology on BJD market. It's been 5 years since this thread I hope that come up with that one soon. But the problem is, BJD market simply isn't big enough for such expensive equipment. It would be a great way to customize BJD while looking on the 3D screen.

 

I didn't mean for it to sound that way at all, I used to do digital art a lot and I know that it takes just as much time and effort as handcarfted art. I have nothing against it and actually really like it but I just prefer traditional/handcrafted dolls/art.

 

To me, this is similar to issues raised about Traditional vs Digital art, and Cel vs 3D animation... and way back before digital, whether airbushed stuff is art.

As others have said, it's just another tool for artists to use. And whether you like it depends on taste. We are all used to digital art and 3D animation now, so it's accepted, but there was a HUGE bias against it in the beginning (and still some with some people).

You still need to use skills and aesthetic senses when creating things using all kinds of media.

Do you feel that by limiting dolls to only hand sculpted artist dolls that the future of ABJD is also being hindered? Or, will the posting of progress photos and further development of artists talents lead to the advancement of the hobby?
I think that some people or groups can limit their focus to hand-sculpted dolls or not, as they please. But if processes will make it easier to make sculptures become cheaper with 3D work, then many people/companies will go that route and I'm sure there will be buyers who follow. And the lines will blurr. Say, a hand-sculpted doll may go through a 3D process so molds can be made... or the doll can be produced and cast... so would that be OK to people or not? Or what if an artist finds they can finish up or change a sculpted work in 3D after hand-sculpting? Would that be acceptable or not?

I think if the 3D process becomes cheaper and easier and can work well in the doll-making process, it will be used. That's just life.

There are people who only accept oil paintings, but not acrylic. Or people who only accept engraved prints, but not modern lithography. But if we stopped new media and technology, we would still be using ground minerals painted on cave walls!

Will the open revelation of how a company produces their sculpts influence the way you buy dolls?
Open revelation is always good. And I buy the finished product--if I like it, that's what matters. Of course, I am not talking about re-casts! That's wrong (ethically--it is stealing, and legally, re-casts are not allowed to be shipped into the US). I'm saying that if an artist has used some 3D at some point in the making of the doll, then it probably won't worry me. AND that open revelation is important, but sometimes trust in the ethics of an artist and company is possible.

Is this due to the more intimate feeling of seeing the creation of a sculpt, or the knowledge of it's origins?
Depends on the person. I don't see a difference between hand-sculpting and digitally sculpting... as long as it's an original creation of the artist.

Should it matter if it was a 3D image or handcrafted so long as the design is original?
Heh. See above! Doesn't matter to me!

And finally, should 3D creations be held on a different level than handcrafted ones?
Depends on individual. To me... I like both cel animation and 3D. They are different looks and appeal in different ways.

I am an artist and I work in "traditional" mediums AND I've worked digitally and in 3D... I STILL need to do the art, no matter if I'm drawing and painting with pencils and oils or if I'm using the computer! It's still a heck of a lot of work! And my style is very similar in all mediums... So, the biggest difference is that I don't have an actual "original" piece at the end, but all the work is 'original' as far as it's created by me.

 

I think one of the most exciting aspects of the 3D prototyping concept as an artist was realised recently when I discovered there are smaller home use machines now available at around $1000 AU. It helps having a hubby who's a joint high school computers co-ordinator and Technologies VET subject Co-ordinator as well as resident tech head who would love to get hold of one so we can both play around with it.
I think these smaller machines will really open up the possibilities for anyone wanting to try their hand at producing their own BJDs...or in my case prototyping tiny miniature doll size cameo and filigree buttons and other detailed doll clothing details and accessories.

 

Agreed! I'm planning on producing my own dolls, but making molds is a pain... And not exactly environmently friendly either, as worn-out silicone can't be re-used (well, maybe for stuffing things or to make the "walls" of your next mold thicker). So as soon as they're afforable for me, I'm probably going to get myself a 3D scanner and a 3D printer. I still want to make things by hand, but it would be awesome to be able to scan and reproduce them like that.

 

3D printing amazes me, I'm still pretty sure it's straight-up magic.

I couldn't care less if a company did one or the other. Either way takes TONS of practice, skill, time and consideration. Both are works of art.

 

I feel they should specifically say "hand sculpted" or "machine sculpted" doll. I also feel the type of "creation" should be reflected in the price and one would think that from the bjd's most on this forum (including myself) would have, compared to say Marina Bychkova's dolls, it appears to be reflected in the price. Copying has gone on since day dot, some in particular have a gift for it. I've lived in some countries who make these dolls prior to even knowing about them and I know they truly are gifted artisans at copying anything and everything. I have a Heloise (France) Paloma #1 resin doll and she is absolutely exquisite so I do know that there is a very big difference in price between a copy and the original item. Technology can create things that are identical our hands simply can't. Having said that I love both and I do appreciate that there is a certain gift to anything created technically also, in my view it just doesnt hold the same value thats all. What I would like to see is the doll manufacturers insisting on a doll register every time a doll goes out the door and every time it is sold the new owner must reregister the doll with them with the approval of both seller and buyer. Am I dreaming? Perhaps so but at least it would create some accountability and ownership of each and every doll.

I wrote this post without reading anyone elses comments so now I'll go and read them to see what others say about this also.

Ok read the posts now and kudos to firefly5003 the work you are doing is amazingly beautiful, thanks for sharing. Really appreciate everyones comments on this.

 

Ooooo....anyone seen the new range of smartphone apps that can be used to turn your phone into a 3D scanner? See http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/busine...much-more-than-1000-words-20121219-2bm9j.html
Hence, sculpt, then scan with phone, refine 3D design from scan using appropriate software (and cut out a whole lot of wasted time, money and mess junk casting) and print...then send prototype to your designated casting service or DIY. LOVE IT!

 

Most people on this thread seem to have very similar beliefs.
I believe that 3D imaging is also a complicated art form, but hand-crafting and computer-crafting always have been and always will be two completely different things. Now, how you want to distinguish them varies by the individual.
Non-computer related things always have had (and hopefully will have, though if everyone has the views above, the ancestors'll be turning in their graves) a more mystical, natural air about them. I can feel the work put into something hand-crafted, but I can't feel it in something computer-produced. Since it's so flawless, I have to think about the process on the computer...
A big part of art for lots of people I know (except for the ones who want everything perfect) is the flaws.

I understand that general views do change, but it is sad when such a deep concept dies.
But, considering some buyers don't generally know which company is doing what...
The actual value, per se of the doll is in the buyers eyes, though.

 

Oakie, I can understand your sentiments entirely, especially as my own educational, theoretical and personal background is all about applied arts and and a love and admiration for crafts tradition the hand made. However, for many the 3D scan and print option does not diminish the importance of the handcrafted but simply adds to it. Sure, it is now possible to completely create a sculpt in digital form but I have also seen signs that several artists are simply using 3D scanning of base sculpts, digital manipulation to "perfect" their work for potentially better casting results and then printing their resulting prototypes in the end, ready for casting...saving on the laborious and expensive waste (and not to mention toxic and environmentally unfriendly waste it is too) of silicone and polyurethane that is otherwise junk casting to test and later to better perfect a design for casting. It can be seen as a wonderfully useful tool as an extension of the hand-made rather than taking anything away from it.

 

I was just watching some videos on Youtube about 3D printing and it occurred to me that eventually, BJD dolls could be made very quickly with that technology. What do you all think about 3D printing; and how do you think it will affect BJD doll production, doll prices and the hobby overall?

 

There are already some BJDs being made via 3D printing. In the photos I've seen, the material looks very rough and grainy. I don't know how well it would hold up to being sanded or carved. Resin is great because of how sturdy it is and how much detail it can capture. I'd like to see a 3D printed doll, just out of curiosity. But I certainly hope established BJD companies will continue to use resin. I can see how new up and coming BJD artists might be tempted to go the 3D route because of cost, so I'm not sure how this will affect the future of BJD collecting.