the Human Race(s), standards of beauty, & the BJD hobby

I just want to say this to hopefully remind us that the people that make this dolls are ARTISTS themselves.
Talented folk who simply want to share their joy with us. We wouldn't have these beautiful dolls if they didn't let their imaginations roam We often get into a debate about all the things they DON'T do, but they are still people that can HAVE their own opinions. Typically the dolls also come with their own little story that never has anything to to do with race and never comes to play in anyone else s stories but their own

As an artist myself I know the process of creation and understand that sometimes you just have to your own thing. You cannot please everyone and it's an uphill battle if you try. And it seems like they are at least trying to make some steps. And these are some very simple mistakes that they probably never even considered would effect someone negatively.

I'm black and I've never felt hurt or sad that there weren't dolls that looked like me. Even when black dolls were made, did they still look like me? No. I think that for collector that wants ethnically correct dolls, I understand their gripe. But can you at least give them a little something for trying even Best of luck to you

 

No, I said that "Normal" is the English word that was originally chosen to mean "Medium" in their range of resin colors. It sort of stuck.

 

It depends on the type of doll I want to do. If it's a fantasy type of doll, anything might go. If it's a realistic doll whose story is set in the modern world, sure I'd want to make the doll as natural as possible, to use the OP's example, by putting dark eyes and hair on a black doll.

I wouldn't begrudge someone for putting a white wig and blue eyes on a black doll, though. Honestly, I really think pale colors are a beautiful contrast with dark skin and would make for one heck of an attractive doll! It's actually some kind of fad or genre in Japanese video games, manga, and anime to have a black (or at least darkly tanned) person with blond hair and pale eyes. I forget what word is used to describe it, but it's some kind of trend.

I'm glad it's not uncommon to find dolls in an ethnic variety. When I first joined the hobby I didn't see many dark dolls and it was disappointing. Now it seems like they're more common or I'm at least more aware of places with resin color varieties. ^^

 

I've no problems with "normal", "beauty white" or whatever. They call it however they want. Why would I even think about it? Mind you, most of the companies are asians, and most of asians like white skin. If they like it, and call it "beautiful white", who you are to judge? Call it "white chalk color" if you want yourself, but don't tell people who make those dolls how to name things.

 

i don't think it's nessesary to call the racism card because companies are just now starting to change their molds to varying ethnicities. I've heard horror stories about darker resin being blotchy or sanding funny, and can see why they are taking the time to work on it slowly. i would rather a slowly developed, quality product than something rushed that looks bad.

when it comes to normal skin.... i think they call it normal because that's the colour the resin is normally batched at. their normal could be pink or purple, it doesnt matter.

also, can we toss in a distinction between the USA and Canada, instead of using North America? although our countries share a continent there are very diffrent ideals when it comes to multiculteralism and standards of beauty in varying ethnic groups.


sidenote: i kinda want to get the iplehouse ashanti in chalk-white now. it would make a striking albino just because people would not expect it with her features. and that's half the fun in this hobby. BREAKING racial steriotypes.

 

Not to pick on you, your post was just the latest with this idea in it. ^^;

Why does it seem like most of the time, when people bring up the idea of getting a sculpt that is shown/sold originally as being from a naturally dark-skinned group of people, the idea of getting that sculpt in white instantly = albino? As if, those specific facial features could only be found on someone naturally dark skinned, and if they're not dark skinned, well then they must be a genetic fluke! 8D Um...no. >__<; I have a white skinned Denzel...he is of central/eastern European descent, though he was born in France...and the features of the sculpt suit him perfectly, I think. Now that is breaking racial stereotypes.

 

Hmm... could it be that you are BOTH breaking racial stereotypes? I don't get the idea that there is only one way or a "best" way to do so, which you seem to be implying, acanthiel. As for siead_liethrathua's statement, most "white" people don't have chalk white skin-- I am guessing this is why she is thinking of the combination she mentioned as albino. I myself am about as pale as pale can be, and my skin is not white. But people I know who are albino, really are white-- as in pigment-free. Like a chalk-white doll.

 

That is true...if we are truly talking about a literally chalk-white doll, and it is intended to represent a realistic human, then it's perfectly logical to assume the person the doll represented to be albino. That said, Iplehouse white is not chalk white...so while a (purely speculative) truly chalk-white Ashanti would look decidedly albino, a normal Iple White Skin Ashanti doesn't inherently = albino, and I guess that was where I was going. xD; I didn't mean to imply there was a 'best' way to break racial stereotypes...and there is nothing wrong with having a white-skinned Ashanti and representing her as an albino of African descent...but IMO that would be bending stereotypes rather than breaking them, as it would be in keeping with the original representation of the doll as black. But bending goes towards breaking, so I am all for it! XD

 

actually i fell in love with the look of albinos with african american features from that katy perry - ET video. and yes, i ment a pure albino.
also, i dont find flaw in noticing people of a particular race seem to have some features, while others have diffrent ones. that's not racism, that's called having eyesight. you don't have to pretend diffrences in humans do not exist to not be a racist. you just have to not let the diffrences effect how you treat the person.

edit: i don't have any iplehouse, and didnt know their available line of colours. guess i would have to basecoat one to get the chalk white

 

You are right-- Iplehouse white is not "chalk" or paper white-- but it is still much, much lighter than any caucasian I have ever met (including me or my red-haired "white as a ghost" sister), and closer to the skin color of albinos I have met. So I would say it would be a very good match for an albino.

 

I'm going to say that as most of the human race has black or brown hair and brown eyes, we find other colours more exciting than others, simply because they're different. I like having dolls with bright green or purple eyes, or bright red hair, green hair, etc. because it looks more exotic. I don't think dolls should have to conform with reality.

...That said, I have met black people with naturally blue eyes and blonde hair, so it can happen.

 

Mire Lapin has a rose-white Ashanti, who is an albino named Nola. She is stunning. Whenever she appears at meetups, we do not sit around bickering about race and coloring and realism, we just go "Ooo~ohh, Nola's here! ".

I went to school with an albino guy, and his skin was not chalk-white either; it was pale pink. No pigment to hide the blood underneath, y'know. In fact, he would've also best been represented by Iplehouse's rose-white resin with some extra pink blushing. His hair was chalk-white though.

 

Going back to the original post in this thread, I actually chose a darker-skinned doll to shell Chaeri to contrast with her pale pink hair and violet eyes. I could have just as easily gotten a pale-skinned doll, but a more tan skintone just seemed right for her. As you can see from my icon, she is lovely.

Add me to the list of people who prefer lighter-colored eyes because my own are dark brown, too.

 

I agree that Iple Benny was a great success in racial regards, but then I come across other dolls- even on from that very same brand. It's not the light eyes/hair that I find disenchanting, but the overall Anglo facial nd body structure. It reminds me of the early part of the 20th century when the only people of African descent that existed in the public sphere were those with Anglicized facial features. Anyone who was "too black" was found unsettling. I see that particular mentality in the doll world.

 

I think that the companies are just trying their absolute best to sell the doll, using whatever means necessary, and the bright eyes and light hair are just flashier and bring more attention to the doll. For example, a dark-skinned doll with blue eyes has a greater contrast and more likelihood to be noticed and to catch the eye of a buyer.

 

Arrrgh! I've been trying to send a post and I wrote a lengthy one when my computer crashed>_> so I'm going to be brief now.

The problem is not the companies or the individual per se BUT the majority. Companies care about the $$$ so they will make what sells the most and white skin SELLS MORE, we have to admit that. I understand what the OP is trying to say and I wholly agree with Splynterhayde I think he/she gave the most accurate answer and the reason as to why things are how they are *applauds*. The majority prefers white skin and light colors and I don't believe that the reason is because it is exotic or unusual since the majority of white people still prefer white skin (not saying European because not all European countries have white people and vice versa).

So, blame the consumer, the majority...not the companies.

 

But...why "blame" the consumer. From what I can tell in my own community, BJD conventions, photos from various BJD meets across the globe, photos of owners and their dolls, etc. a majority of doll owners are of a fairer complexion, and as has been stated many times by many people, it isn't uncommon for people to want to buy dolls that look like themselves. No, not always, but it is reasonable to assume that just as dark skinned people may want dolls that represent themselves, white skinned people would like the same. Is it something to be ashamed of now if one is pale and wants a pale doll? If it's not, then why blame the majority for being themselves?

 

I should probably quote everyone next time because my comment was based on many things some people said here before, so I apologize for the confusion.

From some comments here people are trying to justify why the companies do more white skin dolls, and some give examples such as and I'm going to quote Splynterhayde "Many will claim and validate that the reason they prefer dolls offered in lighter skin is because it is less common." Hence my comment about most white people preferring white skin dolls as a way to invalidate those reasons. Everyone has their own reasons why they like the things they like, of course but as a group, more people will buy white skin dolls than dark skin ones. I'm white and most of my dolls are the same but I'm not racist, it's just a matter of taste. Oh and the majority is not white, there are more brunette people with dark eyes in the world than white skin/blue eyed ones.

 

This is an American-centric viewpoint in several ways. First, it assumes that Asian creators of these dolls have the same background as the majority of people on this board (which they most certainly do not) as well as the same set of cultural influences that would result in a particular "mentality". Second, it assumes that all people with dark skin look like African Americans, or that the dark skinned dolls made by these companies are meant to represent African Americans. Where is the evidence to support that assumption? Many Africans do not look like African Americans, as the slave trade did not pull people from all areas of that continent equally. And worldwide, there are many people around the globe with skin as dark or darker than many African Americans who have features closer to those in the dolls you describe. People from south India, Bangladesh, native peoples of New Zealand and Australia, etc. Maybe the manufacturers are referencing people from these countries in some of their dolls. Of course, maybe they are not. Assumptions get us nowhere.

If dolls with dark skin and "anglo" features are a trigger for you, buy dolls with the features that aren't a trigger for you. And let the companies know what you are looking for. They will surely respond to increased demand by making more dolls with the features you are looking for! After all, they way they will stay in business is by selling the dolls people want to buy.