The obsession with beautiful boys?

I'll take your word for it, as I'm not a woman but a man. I know many of doll collectors that went just fine without feminine guys and thouroughly enjoy their girl dolls. That being said of course, I don't care about the pretty boy dolls; they honestly don't bother me in their looks, but it's the sheer number of them that's proving it to becoming a fad.

If they're not a type of fashion doll, then what are they?

Isn't Volks still one of the biggest and most popular? Their Japanese animation inspired dolls seem to still be some of the big sellers today. Take a look over at Dream of Doll's creations, too. They've been pumping out anime-based dollies since forever. I have to admit, though, they at least seem to do it "right" in my eyes.

But anime != asian. Asian does refer to a large group of countries ranging from India to Japan and even parts of the Middle East. I don't see how anime can apply to but a select few parts of that big of an area??? Even then, if you mean the far eastern countries along the pacific, then I would still call a no on that. There's plenty of other ways to show asian that would hit the spot better.

And I could easily turn that around and say I find it offensive that you're being somewhat elitist and Asian Ball-jointed Dolls are not intended to look like or resemble anything from the western world. Is it not okay that we continue to share artistic ideas anymore? Afterall, Anime was almost fully based on western cartoons.

I don't understand this "different standard of beauty"; I could easily put a ball-jointed doll on the same level as something by Fashion Royalty, Sybarite (Effanbee-made, right?), Tonner, Barbie or whatever name you can drop. I'd say they're equally as beautiful in their own ways. They're oh so related, too, challenged really only by origin of design. Afterall, they're all fashion dolls, and I find they can all have something worth checking out.

And I can easily escape reality with dolls that are lifelike; I'm highly interested in Glamour and Fashion photography, and since I do not have access to actual models, it's like I have my own right here, even if they're small and not actually alive. Plus I can get some camera practice in at the same time...pretty rad.

Anyway, I'm sure we should get right back on topic, right?

 

I personally am not going to bite into the bicker that this thread seems to be turning into. I am glad there are all sorts of BJD's for all sorts of tastes. I personally like the more realistic looking dolls with smaller heads and eyes, if others like something more anime and less realistic, that's great; there are BJD dolls that appeal to all of us, and isn't that a wonderful change from the basic, pre-BJD market?

Oh, BTW Christina's Dream, I LOVE your Avatar. It's been a long, long time since I have seen the cover art from Miles Davis B****** Brew, and it's a treat to see it on this board!!!

I can't believe the filter changed a capital B and a bunch of asterisks ( I typed those as I knew the word I wanted to use would be filtered so I didn't even attempt to type it in) into "Puppy chow"

ROFL, Miles Davis is no doubt LOLing in his grave!!

 

I think it is fair to say we all have some things in common but there is no one trend being followed here. I think it is sad that girl dolls are in the minority- or at least seem to be in the galleries, I love girl dolls and yes I also love the more manga style dolls, which is why my first doll was a Volks Nono.

As for boys, it is their manly clothes that attract me, the suits and coats and attention to details, I like the more manly boy doll, i have K's head on the way, and I lust after a bishonnen house doll. I also want dollzone ying- he is as girly as I go, manly but a bit effeminate. I might own a fey looking doll, but I see them more like an elf character.

I personally don't like the more mature women, I feel they are too fashion doll for me...BUT I can certainly admire them for their beauty.

I also don't think any of my boys will be gay, but then again that is just because relationships don't fit into any of my planned 'family' I think it is more that whatever their preference is- it doesn't come up as they are all family members not 'singles'.

The thing we do all have in common is a love or our resin children, whatever their looks, age, maturity, sexual orientation AND a love of seeing other peoples resin kids!

for the record- I like manga but I don't read graphic novels, though I have dabbled in manga stlye drawing, I like rock music, but not exclusively, I like goth and lolita looks but not overdone, I like the fantasy genre.

 

May be a fad, doesn't make anyone's love insincere.

A customizable resin ball-jointed doll. You wouldn't (or at least *I* wouldn't..) look at a cloth doll who can change its clothes and call it a fashion doll. My Super Dollfies, Barbies, and cloth dolls unfortunately reside in completely different realms and will never interact with each other.

In Japan. Look at DoA and you see Korean companies pretty much rule now.

But the Asian in Asian ball-jointed dolls has always only meant Japan, South Korea, and more recently Singapore and China, and these countries all produce and enjoy anime/manga.

 

When I got my first doll (DoT Lahoo) a friend of mine said the following when he saw the pictures I made:

For years he had a doll from Indonesia he thought was a female doll, until he did some research about the story behind the doll and discovered it was actually a doll of a male warrior. In Western culture a strong warrior looks directly at you and has a strong build, but my friend told me that in the particular culture his doll originates from a strong warrior has a slender build, refined features and looks downwards. Pretty much the character traits attributed to women in Western culture. Rough and strong features suggest a bad character, or so I’m told. So what he thought was a shy, pretty lady doll was actually a tough warrior doll.

Now I don’t know how far this story connects with the pretty boys we see in resin shape, but I wouldn’t be surprised Asian culture influences the looks of dolls from Asia.

 

Because Thief just looks happier in a dress. ::shrugs::

^^ Personal preference. I'm not into yaoi, I have no bishounen obbsessions, and I'm not too into anime or manga. I just think he looks happier in dresses.

I don't consider my dolls fashion dolls. I don't consider BJDs too related to the fashion doll genre either. What ways do you feel they resemble eachother? (I'm genuinely curious)

And are pretty male dolls considered fads? Maybe, but pretty female dolls could never be, because they've been around forever. Maybe pretty male dolls won't be a fad after they've been around long enough too.

 

Mortimer said "
I don't consider my dolls fashion dolls. I don't consider BJDs too related to the fashion doll genre either. What ways do you feel they resemble eachother? (I'm genuinely curious)"

I don't consider mine to be related to fashion dolls either, however, coming into BJD's from the Fashion Doll world I can certainly see how the connection could be made. Mostly from the standpoint of how Fashion Doll people enjoy their dolls. Many of us are sewing maniacs, and our dolls are a way to explore our inner "Project Runway" side. I can tell you that from that standpoint, it is alot more fun (for people like me) to costume a doll like a Dollmore Model, or a Dollshe boy, strictly because they wear clothes as well (or better) than a fashion doll. The dolls that have more exagerated features and body proportions, just aren't as inspiring or exciting (again, for me) to create interesting fashions for.

 

Possibly.
Or maybe those people who don't follow these trends don't post photos here. You can't judge the whole of the BJD hobby by what goes on in the DOA gallery.

 

I just finished reading this thread with quite a bit of interest. From what I've noticed, the general line of argument cited so far for boy-dolls-with-female-traits is it has its roots in the whole Japanese/Korean pop culture thing and the East Asian ideal of masculinity (or lack thereof, in the eyes of the western world).

However, I'd just like to suggest something a little different. What if the doll-owner is in this hobby mostly for the aesthetic appeal of the doll? I know I am. I own a male doll, and I'm as like to stick it in a gorgeous dress as in a well-cut suit if I think it would enhance its physical attractiveness.

As it has been noted many a time, most collectors are female. It would stand to reason then that most of these female collectors would in turn better appreciate female clothing. Their clothing preferences would consequently be transferred to their dolls. In fact, one may claim that the hobby has become a form of vicarious living for them. One can't wear frilly dresses every day, so one makes one's doll wear them, and by looking at one's doll dressed as such, one feels happy. Features such as long hair -- definitely a feminine ideal.

(And if you were to ask me why I chose a boy doll then, I'd tell you that the lack of a bust makes sewing much easier. And that his head would look a tad too bobble-headed on the slimmer necks of girl bodies. I'm sure each has his or her own reason for their dolls. What's yours?)

That said, I don't quite see what the recent fuss is about crossdressing male dolls, feminine male dolls etc. Until a couple of centuries ago, (depending on the culture) men were easily as flamboyant as, if not far more flamboyant, than their female counterparts in terms of dressing. For example, did you know that it was the men in France that started using paint on their faces (some time before the French Revolution, but too long before), and that the women learnt it from them? In the Renaissance, beauty wasn't really split into genders -- an ideal was just celebrated (an ideal which more males seemed to meet than females, actually). It was only during the Regency times that men started toning down their day wear (not quite their evening wear, though), and becoming standard and drab in their costume by the Victorian times in both day and evening wear, while the women began to take centrestage.

The same thing applies to male/male relationships. At the risk of getting stoned by the religious, such has existed for eons in history. It started being a little less... public, with the advent of Christianity, but it was still widely-known and accepted until, again, the Victorian era and its prudish social mores, that such relationships started to develop the stigma we now find attached to it. Again, I think this argues for a certain sort of "beauty ideal" that crosses genders and times, and that a part of us humans just embraces such, be it consciously or unconsciously.

And if it gets transferred to our dolls, I think that's perfectly understandable as well.

 

I agree. Pretty male dolls are labelled as a a 'fad' but i've never heard the question 'What's the obssession with beatiful girls?' asked. Beatiful girl dolls can't be a fad, they've allways had them. Prehaps it's becuase we see at as more normal for a girl to be beatiful?
And that just comes down to silly ideas of how men and women should be.

 

As far as looking at other peoples dolls, I think sometimes the boy sculpts pull off the feminine look far better than some of the girl sculpts do... so I'm always interested to see what a person as decided to try with their doll, whether or not I'd do it for my own. (My 2 cents as to why cross dressers might get a lot of comments)

None of my boys cross dress unless it's a) Halloween or b) I'm torturing them XD

The only one who is more feminine is Raaf, but the only thing that makes him seem that way is that he has a child's personality, so he still goes "squee" over things like bunnies, stuffed animals and candy. He never runs around in skirts though XD It's just not my guys style.

 

Hmm answering for myself:

- I always been a big yaoi fan;
- I love man/man and boy/boy relationship;
- One of my boys is a cute little all dress in pink boy;
- I noticed recently that I neglected Momoko because she is a girl... I love her, that's no doubt of it. But I can't think about new clothes for her or do a photoshoot.
- One of my characthers, Lumina (Noir's brother), should have a woman appearence for his human form... But, I can't see a woman doll around here O_o''''. So, I decided that Lumina won't have a human form at all. And he will be a Lishe boy, because I love Lishe headmold very much, but, then again, I cannot see myself with a girl around =/

Well, that is for me, of course ^^'

 

So, here we go, let's all blame anime for the GREAT EVIL it has dumped onto the world with becoming a global phenomenon. My god, why, look, it brings people HAPPINESS. Let's kill it, or at least ridicule it so much that anyone who likes it has to feel bad.

I like anime. Kind of. Though it isn't so much that I like anime, exclusively, as I like animation as an art form. I read manga, but I like the art form that is comics--manga just happens to have developed an aethetic that I find appealing.

When I first learned about the existence of BJDs, it was through Volks, the old Volks dolls, and their distinctly anime-esque features.

And I hated them.

Yes, I, anime fan and manga nerd, hated the anime-styled Volks BJDs. So anime didn't even factor into my love, not in any sort of direct way. BJDs offer something to me that anime and manga also offer, and it's the bits of me that like anime that also like BJDs--but one did not make me like the other.

Complaining about how there aren't enough "manly men" or how cross-dressing is "a fad" is just mean-spirited. You don't have to like it, but you don't have to belittle it and make the people who do truly love it feel bad for loving something, either. You know what else is a fad? Torn jeans and wearing flipflops in the dead of winter. And wearing your pyjama pants anywhere outside of your house. I think those are stupid, so what do I do about it? I don't wear any of those things! And I roll my eyes when I see teenaged girls in miniskirts and flipflops in January, but I don't walk up to them and go, "you see what you like? that's a fad and I think you should feel bad for it". Things become popular in part because people like them, regardless of how other people feel about that thing. Then, when lots of people like that thing, it's fun, because there are more people to share with!

I hardly see how any of this is worse than any other trend, ever. I want to know why girls with meek, sweet features are so popular. Oh? What? We aren't going to ask this because that's how social customs have told you girls should be? Well don't complain just because not everyone has the same social conditioning.

 

I don't think anyone is belittling anyone in this thread Idoru. It's just a discussion on different trends, likes and dislikes, and the possible origins of those different things.

Some people hate the dolls I enjoy (Models/Dollshe). That doesn't impact MY enjoyment of them, and I am not gonna tell anybody else what's right or wrong for them.

I think alot of the cross dressers, and femme boys are adorable. I enjoy looking at them. It never crossed my mind whether it was a trend, a fad or anything else. That look is just not my personal cup of tea is all.

 

yes. agreed 100% There are other places out there that people show their dolls (or maybe not) DoA isnt the only place there is.

I cant stand topics like this...So what if the dolls are girly boys..if YOU dont like it..dont do it...dont look at it...ignoring it is just as easy as NOT ignoring it if you dont like it... o.O

The only 'trend' i see on DoA thats annoying is the one where everybody has to complain about somebody else or they arent happy. If something isnt wrong with somebody else..or somebody else's dolls...then by god..NOBODY'S happy and it NEEDS to be ranted about in general discussion.

THATS the biggest 'trend' ive seen around here...

 

Alot of people are taking a distinctly negative connotation when they say there's "crossover" from the anime/manga/jrock fandom. Words like "it creeps me out" do make other people feel bad, you know. What was it we were all supposed to have learned as children? Oh yes. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I respect people for their opinions, but, "it doesn't appeal to me" is a good deal nicer than "it creeps me out/I think it's disgusting" ect. (And while maybe that hasn't been said in this thread--yet--it's been said in others of a similar nature.)

 

The most troubling "trend" in this thread is the "personalization" of other member's comments. Although it has veered off-topic a bit in regards to Influence, especially manga/anime and fashion dolls, it really is an informative and interesting approach to discussing why the Male Doll is so revered in the ball-joint doll world. Continuous bickering and snippy retorts will result in the thread having to be locked.

I've been reading the thread because I only own male bjds. They are not cross-dressers however they are beautiful beyond description in my eyes. Some of them tend towards the far end of the angst scale - my DollShe Angels, but to me much of the attraction to ball-joint dolls is in the emotive aspect of so many of the molds.

I completely agree with idrisfynn that the gorgeous male doll is something that has been virtually impossible to own as a collector until the Asian Ball-Joint Dolls appeared. I feel very lucky to have these "house gods" here and, personally, find all interpretations of these boys to be fascinating and imaginative.

One thing, however, in regards to this thread is Perspective. The Dollery is not filled to overflowing with cross-dressing boy dolls. It's perceived that way - especially by newcomers, in the same way that much of manga is perceived to be slashy. It can be a surprise to many people, but the numbers just don't prove either first impression.

Live the difference!

 

Excellent post Zag, and I agree with you 100%

 

I'd never dress my guys in skirts -- personal preference. I'm sure that the anime influence has a lot to do with my attraction to the more long and streamlined-looking guys, but I've always preferred smaller, slighter men to big fuzzy ones like my dad

When I met him, my hubby looked a lot like Kenshin, with glasses. So I suspect it's just a deep-seated preference

Oh... having now finally read through the whole thread. Wow! In some ways my answer would be similar to my answer to all other questions of this sort, which is: We do it because it's fun, it makes us happy, and who cares anyway? Whatever makes your boat float.

But also I had to stick my nose in to say that, with all due respect, anime and manga were not "almost wholly based on American comics." Manga has a very long history that can be traced back to something like 15th century China. It's the enormous-eyed look Tezuka preferred that was influenced by Mickey Mouse, and that wasn't until the 60's. (I just finished studying this for a dissertation that will never happen). It's a complete aside, and hasn't got anything to do with why I like purdy boys, but I hate to see a misunderstanding perpetuated.

 

I love manly men. When I was little I was obsessed with Billy Ray Cyrus and Allan Jackson. I crushed on Gaston. I like guys who are macho, but..... real machismo is extremely flamboyant.

Jut think- the most extrodinare and impressive, colorful and proud animal is the male peacock. ....Those little monsters WILL KICK YOUR BUTT.

I like macho men who arent afraid to do things, that act boyish with the "Hey ma look what I can do!" stupid thing just to see if they can do it. But I like men who have a sense of style. ....ooooo tight tee shirts, liquid satin and rough denim.

but as an aside, i think the "girly boy" thing has been so popular of late is because most of us grew up in the "take down the man" generation. We grew up so much with the "manly men are abusive, destructive, hateful, controlling monsters who rape and enslave everything because they must control it" subtext. ...well geeee.... I find it hard to believe that in thousands of years of human existence there was never a woman who liked the guy she married. o.-; People are people, we've been this way forever and we'll be this way forever. Masculine, feminine, strong, weak, we're all BASICALLY descent to each other.

And your doll is yours. The reason there's so many Els is because he's absolutely classic. The reapon people like anime dolls is they like anime dolls and the reason people like the more realistic "fashon" dolls or the more western ones is all because that's what you like.

I like the fashion ones, personally. They're stylized enough to be fantasy, but have ergnamic proportions. But hey, I like the more mature styles of anime and manga that doesn't do the Big Eye Small Mouth thing. So they still look anime to meeee. : 3

And even though Caine is homosexual, he wouldnt wear a dress or skirt. Unless it was a kilt and he'd be crying after a half hour about how much of a bother it was and want his pants back.

Sai on the other hand likes to dress as a girl on occasion because he's EXTREMELY masculine. He delights in the irony.