The prices of seccond hand dolls. Are they getting ot of hand?

When I first got access to the marketplace and started looking around at doll prices (because it took me awhile to get access and then I wasn't interested in purchasing a doll so I only looked at clothing) I was shocked. There were people trying to sell pretty standard stuff that they were the second buyer and sometimes an item was slightly damaged at near retail prices. Then I realized that the wait times drove some of these sales and I figure in a lot of these cases you have young people trying to recoup as much of their initial sale as possible so they can buy something else. As others have said, often you can watch these items sit, and sit and sit some more. I agree that "whatever the market will bear" is the by product of our capitalist world. The only issue I see is newer people not knowing what's going on and possibly being taken for a ride. But I suppose that's the learning curve of capitalism. I recently bought a head on the MP and then spent a lot of time trying to find a body that would work with it because it had odd dimensions. In the end I bought a body on the MP by the same manufacturer which is completely sold out. Just for the body I paid almost what the entire doll cost new. But I knew that the likelihood of getting a body was nil so that was the price I paid to complete the doll and I was happy to do so. In that case something rare held its value.

I also realize that some people are expecting to get offers even if they say "firm", so they are playing a game of hoping they'll get near their asking price. I find it complicated to "deal" so even if someone says they want $150 or best offer, rather than make an offer below that figure, I'll just tell them that I'll pay $150. So when people highball their products I don't even look.

Is it really a violation of Paypal policies to ask the buyer to pay the fees? If so I'm surprised DoA lets that go on here. I see it all the time and have paid them myself. I never do such a thing, not because of rules but because as a seller I think that the fees are for my business. If I wanted them covered I would just raise the price before I would tack on the fees in an addendum. But as everyone has said, all behavior is fair in the capitalistic game. You pays your money and you takes your chances....

Of course the other part I found surprising about the MP is the amount of terrible, blurry photos. It's almost amusing when I see one blurry photo that's a partial view of the doll.

 

The marketplace is not about morals, is about money and how much are you willing to shell out for that item, that's why I think it's up to the buyer whether they want to pay a high amount of money and research is solely the buyers' responsibility.

Having said that, I would not pay more money than what it's offered at the company for a BASIC doll. I would buy it directly from the company instead. In fact, I think basic dolls lose their value depending on how old they are BUT if they are new or well taken cared of, they should go for about the same price from the company. If a basic doll has a face up from a well known face up artist, I don't care...I would just see how much the company charges for it and if it is not the same I would never buy it. As for colors, extra parts, mobility etc again, I would check the total with the company.

I don't see the point of paying more money for a basic doll when you can get it brand new from the company, unless the company doesn't ship to your country then I would think it twice but that's just me, sellers can do whatever they want but they will not get a penny from me.

As for limited dolls, I think is fair to raise the value depending on how popular it is and even if it is not popular I think it is ok to sell it over the original price but sellers are taking the risk of not selling the doll if their prices are too high since the doll is not really in high demand but *again* it's up to the buyer to research and take decisions.

The more popular and hard to find an item is, the more expensive will be. Volks dolls can be sold at a really high price just because MANY people want them! I have seen just a SD17 body being on sale for $1000!! O____O that's outrageous for me, then again, if people want it so much I think it's alright to sell it at that price.....but I have also found some limited Volks dolls with reasonable prices because they are not very popular. This is just the way it is and I don't think is unfair.

 

Some of them are SERIOUSLY ridiculous! Especially Minifee for some reason.... And honestly, you can buy those from Denverdoll Emporium and save the shipping. So I don't get it.

I DO think a good face-up is acceptable to add to the price of the doll. It's money that a person added to the value of the doll. If you just want to wipe it then don't buy it! Buy a new one!

I also see things like Doll Chateau heads that cost more they do from Mint on Card and I have to scratch my head. But I also don't see them selling quickly.

Some things, like Volks dolls and other limited editions will always command more second hand than at the time of release.

 

This is something I've given a great deal of thought to, as well... but I've reached a different conclusion. Personally, I think secondhand buyers' pricing expectations is what is getting out of hand.

This is a hobby, which means we collect things that have value and work hard to maintain, or increase, that value. While it's true that some sellers have significantly marked up the price of dolls that would be far cheaper to purchase straight from the company, those are extreme cases and shouldn't be used to shame would-be sellers into marking down dolls they've invested time and energy in.

Add in the fact that, no matter what price we ask for our secondhand dolls, there will always be someone asking us for a deal... eeeh. I think the pricing is pretty just.

I may not agree on some of the points in the initial starting post of this thread, but I do agree with the idea that sellers ought to do some critical thinking when determining the value of a doll. But it shouldn't be up to just the sellers. Demand, or the lack thereof, is what will get them to drop the price. If it's to expensive, don't buy it; the seller will mark it down because there is no demand for a doll at that cost.

We have a similar idea in that we both seem to have a system for judging on if a price is right on the secondhand market. This is my mental questionaire I use when shopping or selling secondhand. This is kind of long, so you don't need to read it if you don't want to. It's just an example of my criteria when I shop or sell secondhand. (You can skip to the TLDR section if you want.)

How accessible is this doll's particular configuration? Can I buy it from the company with little complications? If so, then this brings down the value. If not, depending on how hard it is to get from the company (No english site, etc) or if the doll is even in production anymore, the value goes up.
How old is the doll? Has it yellowed? Is the body outdated (in comparison with the doll's current body offering on the company site, if the sculpt is still available)?
How many times has the doll had a faceup? When a doll has a faceup that isn't factory, I assume it's had at least two faceups, since sellers don't normally list this in their information. I personally think sellers ought to list the number of faceups a doll has gone through. Every time a faceup is wiped, there is some damage left behind -- either due to the chemicals, the cleaning utensils, or the faceup itself. I prefer a doll that is severely yellowed over a doll that has been used for faceup practice, because I can fix yellowing... but I can't fix the damage done by multiple faceups. The more faceups, the less the value, in my checklist.
Does the doll HAVE a faceup? Unless it's a factory faceup, I tend to avoid dolls on the secondhand market that have faceups; artists like Andreja do wonderful work, but I want the sculpt, not the faceup, and I wouldn't be able to wipe it because... well, I paid for the markup on the face then. But that's me, personally. Dolls with faceups, be it factory or professional, raise the cost of a doll. I don't believe they should be marked up a crazy amount, but I can see a doll with a nice faceup going for more than a blank doll.
Is the doll limited? If so, how much? Damaged, I'd be willing to pay for a limited doll at cost plus shipping. From there, the better the condition, the more I'd be willing to pay. Saturation also contributes to the cost. If there are five tiny delf centaurs for sale on the DOA marketplace in six months, All in the same condition, all for sale at around $500... you probably won't be able to sell yours for $750 because of saturation.
Modifications: I don't usually buy modded dolls. This is a personal thing for me, I'm not saying others should fold it into their list of criteria.

TL;DR we should all have our own set of criteria when shopping and selling secondhand. We shouldn't blanket it all under "used=cheaper" because in this hobby, that isn't necessarily true. In this hobby, the main benefit of buying used dolls is "used = SOONER." There is virtually no wait time. Sure, we can find configurations of dolls on the secondhand market that we wouldn't be able to in the firsthand market; limiteds come around for sale often, and a faceplate we didn't realize we needed when we bought our dolls will float onto the marketplace at times. (marked up in price of course, but this is fine with me... they're impossible to get otherwise!) but really, I don't go to the secondhand market in hopes of finding a doll $100 cheaper than his new price... not if I'm hoping to buy a doll who is less than a year old. When I go to the secondhand market, I'm hoping to find a doll to either rescue for modification purposes, to buy a doll I otherwise wouldn't be able to find, or to just get a doll faster than what the company can offer.

What it all boils down to is, the seller can sell their doll at whatever price they want. It's up to the buyer on if they're going to pay that amount.

Who knows? the secondhand market has been changing. Maybe the monetary value of our dolls will drop now that so many dealers local to our respective countries have opened up, thus giving us easier and cheaper accessibility to fattening up our resin collections. Only time will tell. For now though, I think the secondhand market -- while peppered with some outrageous prices -- is, at its base, pretty fair.

Please note that I do not intend to cause arguments with or offend anyone with my thoughts on the issue; these are just my opinions, and I am open and accepting of everyone else's thoughts on the matter. No one is wrong when it comes to their opinion, no matter how unpopular an opinion might be; I like to believe we share ours with one another so that we can see where we're all coming from on an issue. Thank you for reading mine!

 

I had to pay Paypal fees sometimes and I don't like it. I usually try to avoid it, but sometimes I just really want the item and then any principles that I might have totally cave! ---Paypal fees are OK when it's a Group Order and the organizer isn't the one selling, of course. That's only fair.

I can think some prices I see are ridiculous, but what I do is just not buy at those prices. I don't get upset or obsess on what those crazy sellers are thinking.

BUT-- even though every buyer wants the best deal, sometimes that doesn't happen and you have to buy what's available at whatever price you can afford. Maybe it's because it's rare and you won't find another. Maybe it has an amazing faceup. Maybe it's an auction and someone else wants that particular doll as much as you do... It's really up to the buyers ALWAYS. People have to realize that buyers really have ALL the power. If everyone thinks the price is too high, the item won't sell and the seller will have to lower their prices. If it does sell, then, obviously the price was not too high.

AND-- those weird high prices may annoy you when you are a buyer, but buyers can also be sellers and sometimes it helps you out that other people have their prices that high. That means you can sell yours for your "reasonable" price more easily. Or you won't have to sell your doll for rock-bottom price because all the sellers are selling low to undercut all the other sellers and the buyers insist on low prices no matter what you paid for that doll (and sometimes that will happen! So don't complain when that happens to you, either!).

Just look at it from that view and it's all OK. Really. It is!

 

What I don't get is why people think 'yellowed' = 'should lower the price'. All resin mellows, so unless the person only ever expects to get a year or so out of their doll at the 'new' colour...why is it an issue? I guess if it has gone banana yellow or alien-skin green that would be a thing to lower the price but for the just normal mellowed resin? It doesn't continue past a certain point so for me when I was looking I wanted an older doll because what it looks like in the picture is what it is going to look like six months from now. Such negative words and thoughts about yellowing, I don't understand, or why it's not just called 'mellowed' or 'stabilized'.

 

I think it comes from the fact that natural, resin aging yellowing is even on the entire body. Yellowing from sunlight, on the other hand, only affects whatever bits of the doll were exposed. So you get a doll with a random yellow band across its midriff, if it was wearing a top that exposes its belly. Similar to tan lines, for humans. I think that sort of yellowing is what lowers the price because it's uneven and makes the doll look unusual if it is wearing clothes that expose these lines

 

Yep. This.

 

I'm on the fence. YES, it's out of hand because some people are charging hundreds of dollars more than they cost, and what people don't seem to understand is these dolls go down in value with ownership, not up. Even limiteds shouldn't be more than 100 bucks over their original price. And on the other hand, NO because people shouldn't be stupid enough to buy at prices like that, and the sellers shouldn't be that mean to want to make 150% profit off of the fact that someone is willing to pay for a doll they want...

 

Whenever I read about pricing or selling practices or marketing (either about MP sellers or companies) I always shake my head because there should be TWO categories of comments instead of one.
The two? One is the criteria by which a buyer decides which dolls to buy & a seller decides how to price an item. Both sets of criteria are up to the person doing the transaction & both tend to be market-driven.
The other kind of comments are opinions on the wisdom of these decisions - often directed at companies or sellers but sometimes at buyers.
In other words if you state that you personally would not pay extra for an Angel Toast faceup that falls under the 1st category.
If you state that you don't understand how Volks stays in business with their convoluted marketplan that falls under the 2nd category.
I see people confusing themselves all the time on these threads by mixing up the two kinds of statements. For instance, the face-up one - the seller has every right & reason to charge more because their doll has a $200 faceup from an artist. Probably someone out there would appreciate it, I don't know. If it doesn't sell that question is answered. So just because YOU wouldn't pay extra really is meaningless to this seller except that it removes you from the list of possible customers for that doll.
Another instance - we all have every right to criticize the criteria sellers or companies use to sell us things, in the context of 'how can they possibly find a buyer/stay in business'. People who get up in arms EVERY time someone even hints that their favorite company might be losing customers due to elitist or byzantine selling practices - by saying 'They can do what they want!" is totally missing the point of the criticism. Of course they can, and if they sell their doll/stay in business then all those of us annoyed by them can do is NOT be their customers. But what most of these kinds of posters are saying is, HOW do they MANAGE to stay in business? If a private seller is charging $200 over company price for a doll & manages to sell it, WHO in the world bought it? etc etc.
So anyway - as someone who has bought 10 MP dolls, I never judge the prices I see. I look at the product, check the going prices on the MP & at doll companies, & follow my own private criteria to determine if I will buy the doll. I expect that if & when I go to sell a doll I will do something very similiar - check going prices, availability, check my doll's condition & decide what to charge.

 

So many of my dolls are second-hand. I feel like I've gotten really good deals on most of them. I have seen dolls going for waaay more than I've thought that doll was worth, so I waited and bought a different one later, for less. ONCE I paid more than I really wanted to on a pair of Soom Photon Reaper hands, and then a few months later Soom released them as an extra parts set during an event for about $50 less than what I had just paid. I was a little annoyed, but I hadn't thought they were over-priced before because I'd been looking for those hands for months and I NEVER saw any for sale! I had no idea there would be an event so soon after, or at all! I feel like it kind of is up to the seller to set the price, but it's always a starting price. I think the best transactions are those where the buyer and the seller are both trying to be as nice to eachother as possible! The buyer might say it's a bit out of my price range, how about a layaway? And the seller might say 'I can only do a really short layaway, but I can lower the price a bit!' etc. One of the only dolls I ever bought on impulse (and who I still love very very much! No regrets!) the seller was INCREDIBLY kind and not only put the doll on hold for me for over three months, she lowered the total price and expected me to start a layaway after the holding period! Luckily I ended up being able to pay for the doll in full, but still, that was probably my best transaction on DoA! My goal as a seller is to be that nice. There is a minimum price for everything, but I DO expect people to make me offers and haggle a bit, so I don't START with those prices, because I'm NOT willing to go lower than them, and if someone is willing to pay more than my absolute minimum, that's great. Doesn't mean I expect them to pay their maximum budget. It's a compromise thing. As a buyer, I only haggle or make lower offers on things I think are just a TAD overpriced, or if I'm just a tad short on funds... Most of them time, it's pretty simple. See a doll I've been looking for, reasonable price, buy it. Although personally I am pretty good at finding sweet deals, so I am a little spoiled that way. I see some regular prices as whaaaaat because I've bought the same dolls for a steal. Also teensy cracks\chips\etc lower the price a bit, and I don't mind them for the most part, so I can get those dolls a bit cheaper too.

TLDR; I feel the 'power' is a balance between the buyer and the seller, and the best transactions are the ridiculously polite ones. Aim as a seller to be as nice as you'd want to be treated when buying. Prices are always negotiable, but the starting price may be the minimum price, so just ask.

 

I think that saying LE dolls (in particular) shouldn't be over $100 over their original asking price is putting an arbitrary figure on market forces. If a seller wants to sell their LE for what it cost them or a little over, that is up to them, however the value of a doll that was an LE to begin with and is no longer currently available does go up, not down. As does the price of sought-after dolls even if they are still being released new from the company.

Some people are willing to pay a little bit extra on top of the base sale price from the company in order to receive a doll much faster than they would if they bought direct from the company. In the case of Fairyland dolls you have a 50+ day wait to receive your doll, but you might be able to find the exact doll you want for a bit more money on the secondary market that you could receive a week after making payment. 7 days certainly beats 50 days, and some people are willing or even happy to pay for that advantage.

There's also a particular issue with event heads and items - if you miss the first release, there may never be another opportunity to get the event doll/head unless it's through the secondary market. You can't really rely on their being a second release from the company. How are sellers supposed to price event heads? They're usually free with the order, but you usually have to spend over x amount to qualify, so is the head worth the $350 you spent to qualify or is it worth the cost of a basic head from that company, or is it somewhere in the middle?

Sometimes it isn't so much about profit for the sellers as insurance - if you sell an LE doll or event item for exactly what you paid or under and later regret it, it will cost you more to buy the doll back*. If you do market research and sell the doll for what it would cost you to buy it back or buy another one, you have hit on the price the market will bear.

If a price is genuinely too high or outrageous the market won't stand it and sellers will either have to wait for a very long time to find a buyer or drop their prices to attract a sale.

*I essentially gave away a Juri 2008 M Minifee head when I traded away the Rheia I bought during the qualifying event. I figured that I wouldn't need the Juri head if I was selling the body I was using for it...and boy do I regret it now! Those heads go for a ton of money on the secondary market and mine was just fleshing out my half of a trade! I wouldn't try selling it for $900 or something ridiculous, but I wish I had sold it for it's market value today so I could try buying it back.

 

I don't think it's immoral for someone to charge a ridiculously inflated price for a doll, compared to the cost of it new - especially if it's still available - But it is naively optimistic! Some people are just a bit dumb - that's not immoral - a bit pitiful maybe but they're not meaning to do wrong.

If someone is wanting me to pay for their import taxes though, that's really not my problem - so they got hit with import tax, which is why they're charging £60 more than the same doll would cost me new - I would simply buy new and take my chances in that case - at least I'd get a brand new doll, even if I had to pay £60 import tax - and I might even get lucky and pay none!

If someone is wanting me to pay for custom-made clothes, wig, faceup etc. well that is just daft - Unless it's the doll of my dreams that I've despaired of ever being able to customise myself - which is highly unlikely - most people want to make the doll their own style, so all those 'valuable extras' will probably go in the bin!

If it's a limited doll no longer made, then I think ANY price is fair - you can ask as much as you like, although the higher the price, the longer you will have to wait for someone to come along who a) is desperate for that doll and b) has money to burn - but if the seller doesn't mind waiting it out, then they can ask as much as they want for a rare doll, because rarity adds value to any commodity.

I don't get angry if someone's charging an inflated price for a normal doll though - I have a little giggle about it and wait for them to lower the price!

 

Wow. I never knew it was against PayPal policy to charge fees from the buyer. That upsets me, since I've paid a LOT of money for fees, or have lost assurance by using a personal payment.

 

It's your responsibility as a buyer to decide whether the item in question is worth the asking price to you, personally.

Some people would be willing to shell out extra for no waiting time. Some people would expect a price cut if the doll had extreme yellowing. Some people would expect a face-up by a big name would inflate the price and others would expect the opposite because hey, different characters means different face-ups and I'm totally gonna wipe that anyway, amirite?

You have all these differences of opinion behind each person pushing the sale and each person perusing it, and that's where things get complicated. Define some criteria for what constitutes a "fair" sale for you and stick to those parameters when browsing the Marketplace. If something falls outside the specifications you've set, it doesn't mean the seller is wrong. It doesn't mean they're deluded or being a jerk (in most cases). It just means they have different personal guidelines as to what constitutes a "fair" price. Take it or leave it.

 

This, exactly. Thank you.

 

elve's comment about custom clothes, face-ups etc got me thinking. If I had a doll that was beautifully customized - lovely expensive face-up from a famous artist etc - I certainly WOULD charge extra for it - because for one thing people looking to just wipe that face-up or 'put the clothes in the bin' (shudder) wouldn't bother buying that doll, would they? I myself have bought dolls on the MP rather than a company simply because I liked the face-up/body blushing offered. So yep - custom clothes & face-ups, or mods for that matter - certainly CAN have an added value. If the seller hightlights that, they will attract those buyers who value such things.

 

I have actually bothered with buying 'that doll' before. I've bought and wiped dolls two doll heads with expensive custom faceups in the past year, actually (one was from the faceup artist themselves, though, so how that effects the valuation of the faceup itself is probably debateable). They were purchased because there weren't blank alternatives available, I'll admit ^^;

But I do acknowledge the faceup has value to it, and had no complaints about paying more than company price because of it even though I had/have no plans to keep it (actually only applicable to one of the heads, because one of them was a School A which doesn't really have a set market value even blank).

It does actually support a point being put forth, though--that how much a buyer desires a certain doll is certainly a factor in how high a price can be successfully driven.



More on point with the dicussion as a whole--

While I have seen some prices that I personally think are ridiculous (and I will decline to cite any examples, as I feel this is a personal determination that everyone needs to make for themselves, and not something to be bandied around to the point it becomes a witch hunt), I do agree with everyone saying that it is ultimately the seller's perogative. And if someone is desperate enough to bite, it's not really any of my business. The mind set that someone should set a market price based on what I'm (or any one person is) financially comfortable with just comes off as entitled to me, possibly a little egocentric. Even though it is a little depressing when the one doll you want continues to hang just above what you can comfortably afford, that's just reality for you.

I do think the value of the doll deprecates with age and use (though the latter is a variable that depends largely on the owner--I use my dolls much harder than someone who displays only), the aging process of the resin (yellowing) alone is something that is less desirable in the hobby than a brand new doll. And is something that can never be entirely prevented (temperature and UV accelerate the process, but it is still ongoing). This can be set off by the availability of a doll, and I think this sort of balance is largely subjective. This whole issue is subjective.

I also agree that customization can add to the value (or detract, if it is poorly done--like a bunch of my early mod attempts).

 

Actually this does not say that the buyer can't ask you to pay them the fees which would be charged using the "merchandise/goods" option. What this says is that you can't abuse the "personal/gift" option for selling merchandise.