Too many? (Dolls in drag, / relationships, etc)

This homophobia thing has nothing to do with real people. I agree with everyone. I myself am Bi-sexual but I prefer the compassion of someone my own gender. I also own a straight doll (When she arrives). Also the whole Yaoi and vampire thing is over done.
I blame anime, manga, or anything main stream.
I agree it's the 'in' thing right now, but personally it will fade out as all fads do. With the clothing issue, I, myself, dress in more goth and Hot-topic clothing and have various peircings. That's what I like, but I also love seeing people in bright colors and T-shirts and jeans. I myself don't like them but I love them on other people. That's a random thought, I know..
The yaoi, Jrock and Japan (''weaboo'') obession and tendencies come with the fad and hobby.

I think we just shouldn't let it get to us.

 

I don't have a problem with the silly trends of the doll world. For me, dolls are on the level of manga, anime and tv in terms of seriousness - which is to say, not serious at all! :P

So yeah, there are 293082938923 gay half-elf half-demon half-angels with traumatic pasts and/or mental illnesses and/or special abilities/lineage/curse (take your pick, really) and are probably partially named after the leading fictional angstmuffin prettyboy of the moment. Is it cliche/trashy/cheesy/kitschy? Yes, of course. But hey, this is bjds we're talking about, not some exalted art form. (Besides, thankfully a good number of those gazillion odd angstridden yaoi dollies are quite easy on the eye.)

Personally, I'm more peeved when people get overpretentious about their dolly roleplay, especially if they are terribly defensive about their supposed originality and deride others' lack of originality. Nine times out of ten it's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Reality check: Anyone who thinks heterosexual couples, happy children who need no therapy, & people in ordinary street-clothes are some kind of 'fresh new concept'... needs to pull their head out of their duodenums and look around.

EVERYTHING is overdone. The point is not whether it's been done before; the point is whether it's been done by you.

There are PLENTY of "other things" out there.

But nobody likes looking for them, because it's easier to complain about low-hanging trends.

If people don't see what they personally want to see, they should go out & create what they want to see, instead of being part of the problem.

The right reaction is "Gee, I don't see any [X] here, and I'd love to see some-- maybe I'll go do it myself, & be the first."
The wrong reaction is "Gee, I personally am bored by [Y]-- therefore, all the rest of you should stop posting so much of it."

Individual discontent is NOT the fault of the community at large. I am sick to my guts of hearing people complain about other people's styles.

 

Alright. I think I need to clear a few things up here. You are distorting everything I have said so far in this debate and I really don't appreciate it.

You say that I did not qualify my statement with "all of this apologetic stuff". Please read a part of the very first post I made in this debate thread:

I bolded the necessary parts. Honestly, if you still find the quote above to be me reeking of "homophobia" and lacking "apologetic stuff", I really think that you need to double check the definition of intolerant.

To begin with, I never said that homosexual relationships were nauseating. I said that there is an overload of yaoi/shonen-ai pairings to the point of "ad nauseum", which is an expression meaning "to the point of nausea", which is really just another fancy way of saying "done to death", which in turn is another fancy way of saying "theres so much of it that I'm getting bored/annoyed."

Again, I don't know how many times I am going to have to repeat this to get it through to you. I am not against homosexuality. I am not against anything for that matter. I am simply getting really really bored of seeing the same yaoi/shonen-ai one-dimensional characters with little to no original personality or story line.

I'll give you a metaphore so that hopefully this makes more sense. Say that you work at a retail store. The store plays music over a loudspeaker all day long, and it's always the same playlist. At first this doesn't bother you because you have only heard the songs a few times: right now they are, in your mind, original/fresh. But after a while, after you have heard the same songs for the 10,000th time over, you just sigh in annoyance every time you hear them. NOT because you hate the songs or the artists or how they sing, but because you've heard it for so long and so often that you just wish they would change the playlist to some different songs, so that the music would be original/fresh again. Is this making any sense yet?

It's a simple, simple concept. Repetition over a long period of time = eventual boredom/ad nauseum. If a radio station plays the same songs on a 1-hour repeat, they are going to get less and less viewers because no one wants to listen to the same songs over and over again. Again, NOT because the songs, artists, or styles are wrong or bad, but because it's too repetitive and it gets boring.

I hope that my further clarification has brought some light onto the situation and that any misunderstandings were cleared up. I really don't like having people angry at me, although I do love debating.

 

Ok. would people just Chill. I think that what some of you are trying to say is that some doll owner are doing the yaoi thing "Just because it's popular" and That's what bugs people. if your doll is gay that whatever. but I think what bugs people is when it's done simply because it's a popular subject. (especially in the anime world). people have the right to feel the way they do. and whether or not they ARE homophobic they should be able to express it calmly without getting their heads bitten off.

 

How do you know that people are just doing it because it's popular? Does it ever occur to people that the reason there is so much of it is because a large number of people actually really do like it? People should do what they like whether it's popular or not. Doing something just because it isn't popular is perhaps just as off as jumping on a bandwagon. It really isn't important how many people or doing it as long as they're having fun.

This is what really gets to me personally. There's this assumption that if something's popular than it A. Isn't desirable, B. People are only in it because it's popular. Sometimes things become popular for good reason and there's no reason to assume that the people participating in said popular activity don't genuinely enjoy it. I understand wanting to see other stuff too, but it's not like lots of boyxboy stuff is keeping other stories/shoots off DoA. If other stuff is really that lacking (and I don't believe it is nearly to the extent that people complain it is), then that's because the people into it aren't producing much in the way of doll art which has nothing to do with the boyxboy stuff out there or the people who like it.

Thank you thank you thank you.

 

I Myself think that if thats what you like to do, then who cares if its over kill... there your dolls, not anyone elses. i mean i dont really see that many guys dolls in drag unless its for the comedy effect in photostories or something, or it goes with there persona. As for Homosexual pairings, yeh its done... and i still say its not done enough lol most of the time i just see hedero pairings on the forum so i think that we should out the boys & girls a bit more lol.

Androgynous dolls is a whole different story... you cant really help if your doll looks like a girl ... as i have come to painfully find out. i mean my Takuya always get called a girl, whilst i just sigh and go along with it easing it into the conversation that no hes not a girl hes a guy.... im not sure about girls that look like guys... havent really see any...(besides the dollzone cherry that looks oddly like roxas from Kingdom hearts....)

Most of this stuff doesnt really just come from anime & manga, theres the Visual-Kie & J-Rock scene too. i know for a fact that most Visual-kei /Jrock bands do fanservice for there fans, and most of them are adrogunus too. i mean my mum & dad all ways comment telling me that Ancafe are girls....(so mean...)

But yeh... in my oppinion it doesnt really matter, there your dolls, you spent ect amount of money on them, you can dress them any way fit and dont you let people tell you that you cant.

 

I agree, and I think it would be a real shame to hear of someone who avoided a particular pairing/story-type/character/whatever, just 'cause some people said they were bored of seeing it... I think it would be just as superficial as someone doing it just to be in the In-crowd, if a hobbyist sat out on something they wanted to create, in case they were seen as a "follower."

I mean, just have fun...just do what you like. It shouldn't be that hard!

 

I agree with Jescissa - I think that a lot of the slash/yaoi pairings that I see are unoriginal and very faddy. But what gets me is when I see members who have two female dolls who are friends having to write a disclaimer explaining that they are not intended to be a couple when they post photos. I think that there is too much sexualisation about in some areas of this forum and it saddens me that people have to actually state that their characters are in a non-sexual relationship.

I'm a very tactile person and it is something that is reflected in the way that I pose my dolls. I don't want it to be the 'norm' for someone to see a picture and assume that there is sexual intent in what I create.

I want to add that I have no issues at all with homosexuality or heterosexuality. It's the sexualisation of dolls, whether same gender or a man-woman pairing, that is getting a little tiresome.

 

um...can someone please point me to the gallery of pictures?

I am having touble finding them.......

I'm looking forwards to being totally boring with loads of pictures......

 

Its on the middle of the forum's main page......Marked Galleries.

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

 

As the immortal Offspring once stated, way back in the 90s when flannel was for some reason still okay to wear in public:

The world loves wannabes, so
Hey, hey, do that brand new thing.

But on a more serious note, I think the only reason some people find the huge percentage of male on male couplings excessive in the doll world is that homosexuality is not nearly as prevalent in the human world. Some hobbyists unconsciously impart the standards of human society on dolls, and so without being entirely aware of it, wish that doll demographics more accurately reflected our own. The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force estimates that 3-8% of people of both genders are homosexual, so many of us are forced to wonder: why is it that well over 50% of male dolls are gay?

If one in ten dolls on this forum was gay, no one would blink. After all, acceptance of homosexuality as a valid alternative lifestyle is at a record high, with more than 50% of Americans in full support, and a far higher majority amongst America's youth. It's not that we are disturbed by images of homosexuality in dolls, it's that there's so much more of it than we would ever hope to find in human society.

So what's going on? Why are we seeing this gargantuan discrepancy? Fad-ism, for sure. Yaoi influences, definitely. But as a hundred other people have already stated in this thread: doll hobbyists tend to be people of a similar mindset. These people are, in a large percentage, straight white females with a penchant for Asian pop culture. (And if you are not, please don't flame me: you know you're in the minority as well as I do.) Why do straight white females idolize gay males in such an overwhelming way? The world may never know.

 

Myuumyuu, that's probably the best explanation I've heard so far.

(Also, a little off topic, but are those lyrics from "pretty fly for a white guy"? xD)

 

I think that's an interesting point and one that has some truth in it.

Actually, it's really not a mystery why women like boyxboy pairings There are already several very interesting threads on that topic. It's also something that goes much deeper than just being a fad. Interest in boyxboy pairings have been around a long time--long before yaoi hit the US. And lets face it, there are so many lovely male dolls, is it any wonder that this hobby attracts people that are into that sort of thing? That's how I ended up here and hooked one of my friends on it too.

I think the fact that there is an overlap in interest is exactly why you see so much of certain things--and not just boyxboy stuff. There are a number of other popular subjects that appear in bjd related stories and art. However, that's also the reason why I find it pointless to complain about things like this. So what if a number of peoples tastes happen to coincide? That happens. When there's a lot of something it's just because lots of people like it. There is no mystery and no need to fear that people are jumping on bandwagons and the like. Many things that people like to point out as fads have actually been subjects of great interest to people over a long period of time--it's just that a lot of people are suddenly finding that they can express those interests with dolls.

I really don't care whether or not people like any particular thing, and I enjoy being part of a community that has such variety and appeals to multiple demographics. What aggravates me about topics like this (and inspired my earlier rant), is that after awhile it can feel very much like people don't want to take responsibility for their own viewing--an attitude that so many debate threads are rife with. Whether it's a matter of being offended by something, or just not interested/bored with a particular theme, it seems to be expected that it's up to the artists to change what they're doing in order to suit the tastes of the unsatisfied forum members. However, that's not their responsibility. People aren't going to give a flip about whether or not you (general you) are tired of yaoi, vampires, girls in loli outfits, etc. This is a hobby, not their livelyhood and they're most likely to create what interests them not what interests you. To assume otherwise is to have a rather inflated idea of ones actual influence on the lives of their fellow hobbyists.

So what to do if there's something that you want to see that you feel is underrepresented around here? Search out those photostories and shoots (they do exist, really), leave comments (which might both inspire the creator and bump up the pics so more people can see them), support those creators, and if you're so minded and have the necessary equipment, start actually creating things yourself. It isn't up to the rest of the forum to make sure that there is a balanced representation of X, Y and Z or to make sure everyone is happily entertained. That's up to you all, and yes, it takes at least a little effort, but so do most things that are worthwhile. And before anybody says it--yes, on a forum this size you do have to pick through a lot of things you don't like. That's true for everyone, even if they do like yaoi and vampires and so on. It's what happens when there's oodles of people posting stuff.

 

Most definitely.

Strangely, I know this to be true but I don't feel the same way myself. I am personally attracted to female dolls and have not even considered yet the possibility of buying a male. If we want to get Freudian, it's probably because these dolls represent an ideal woman: beautiful, graceful, delicate -- qualities I aspire to as a female. But that's really a discussion for a different debate thread, lol. In short: I don't see the appeal that male dolls hold for some women. I know the appeal is there, but I'll be darned if I don't feel it for myself.

I'd be interested in a debate more geared towards this topic, actually. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents here in the hope of offering some sort of consolation for both sides of the discussion. It's a question that a lot of people would have to dig really deep to answer, but I have to wonder why there is this idolization of gay males among straight females, and what it means to have that fascination played out with dolls. Maybe I'll go searching for a thread along those lines, or start my own.



I think it's true in every way that people should do what they want with their dolls, and the OP could have asked his/her question in a more sensitive way. Instead of asking "why the glut of similarly styled dolls," he/she should have asked instead "what is the reason for all the like-mindedness?"

 

People can definately do whatever they want with their own stories and dolls. I do however think a lot of things are overdone, or just not well done in general. I've yet to see a realistic male/male relationship portrayed in a photostory, but that's probably because like myuumyuu said they are made by straight females. Extreme angst is another overdone topic I think. I'd much rather see a character battling with a complex psychological issue like avoidant personality, and hiding it with a smile, than "Adonis was raped by his father as a child, and beaten every day, then when his whole family was brutally murdered he was forced to become a prostitute and cuts himself every day." Angst that is subtle, realistic, and well done is great to me (you can identify with it) but a ton of doll stories just have every horrible/angsty/sexualized thing piled on the character to where you don't believe it and don't care. I'm in no way trying to get people to change their stories, but I just wanted to express my feelings on it.

One thing that really annoys me though is that because doll crossdressing and male homosexuality is SO prevalent, people make assumptions about every doll. If I even dare to have 2 male dolls in a picture, I get comments such as "omg they are such a cute couple!" It's not the content of the pictures that would make them think that,(they could be just standing there not even posed) it's the dominance of yaoi. -_- Also since dolly crossdressing is so common, I've seen girl dolls with feminine sculpts, long hair, girly faceups, and girl clothes being mistaken for boys. What the heck?

 

Here's a link to a thread I think you'd enjoy if you haven't found it already. It's here in the debate forum, and has some really interesting posts in it: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155501&highlight=objectification

 

I don't know what a persons reasons are for doing things. I'm just trying to speak for the people who are getting their heads bitten off. I'm hoping we can continue this conversation maturely and without getting angry with each other. I personally don't really care. I don't like having things shoved in my face, but I don't care if it's there. there are things that bother me, but this isn't one of them.

 

Sometimes I wonder why people waste their time on things they don't like? this is where I'd say that people only want to see what they want to see, in this case, people want to see what they don't want to see. If you're tired to see drag/gay.etc type of dolls then move on and be happy, live and let live, that's one my mottos *crosses arms* it's not that homosexual dolls are done to death, why should they? homosexuality has existed for thousands of years so I wouldn't call it a trend.

[cali] if I hear the same songs for many hours on the radio at the place I work, I'd just change the station myself for something that would satisfy me or bring my ipod (there is ALWAYS a solution for everything except death). I don't see your metaphor as convincing, since you're basically trying to say that you're tired of yaoi and it should stop. I'm assuming that you don't care for yaoi anymore that's why you're tired of it. I, for one, love yaoi and I don't mind seeing it everywhere I go and NONE of my dolls is gay or crossdresser but I do have androgynous dolls because they're both kids and most kids are usually androgynous.

I don't like yuri so i avoid it, you all who don't like yaoi or don't care about it(I'm not saying you hate it or are against it) should do the same.

OHH! this reminds me of a song I've been listening to for many hours/days/months and instead of getting tired of it, I love it even more! "don't worry, be happy!"

 

Wow uh, after reading this thread, or as much of it as I could, I suddenly feel really bad about planning to make my doll gay. o_0; And the funny thing is, I'm not really one to think that yaoi is really all that great. I mean, I like it and all, but most of it is just...unrealistic and icky to me. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm huge on realism. D;

Personally, it's not the actually homosexuality part that bothers me, it's how it's portrayed. It's just so unrealistic! I understand people have fantasies and such, and I respect that. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything, but it does get tiring to see your typical, Oh I'm so helpess "uke" figure, and you're typical emotionless anti hero "seme" figure, especially because most gay couples do not work like that! If I were gay, I'd be kind of offended if I came across someone who seriously thought all gay couples worked like that...

I don't really see the homosexual aspect of it to be a trend, but it's portrayal to be a trend. Does that make any sense?