Touchy character traits..

The Lord doesn't hate gay people, anyone who says He does needs to open up their Bible. God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. Having sex with same sex is sin. You can't control the way you feel, but you can control what you do. The people who have killed homosexuals are cruel and cowardly so I understand how it feels.

 

I don't need to open up a Bible since I am a man of science and facts.
It isn't right to say making love to someone of the same sex is a sin, but you can say that YOU believe it is. Few words, big difference.

 

Are we...ACTUALLY having this discussion on an open forum, in 2012 or have I slipped into a deeply innappropriate time warp of hellish proportions where this sort of statement is still acceptable in polite society?! Have the last fifty years of enlightenment and education simply NOT OCCURRED?! I genuinely have not encountered this level of MIND BOGGLING viewpoint for about twenty years and frankly I am HEARTBROKEN to see that there are still people out there that hold such UTTERLY outdated and terrifyingly narrow minded views.

It's staggering to me that anyone, ANYONE, could believe that a loving, caring, sexual relationship between consenting adults with WHATEVER GENDER THEY WISH should be considered a SIN! You have a right to your views as much as the next person, but the rest of the free world and I don't share them, we believe in having the freedom to LOVE and cherish whoever you want, be they male or female so I'm going to ask you nicely, please don't bring this low level, passive aggressive hate mongering amongst us, we want no part in it.

 

This thread has degenerated from a decent discussion into a huge Bash Fest of anything the various posters do not agree with.

I am disappointed, DoA.

Tolerance goes both ways and very few people here are showing it anymore.


I have requested the mods lock this thread.

 

I fully agree with you 100% i think the fact this subject has come up on a debate about touchy character traits for dolls, really makes me sad. I have honestly added to my ignore list because of this thread, because i also want no part of that level of hate! I would rather talk to someone from THIS century.

I do agree that i don't like to see dolls getting "intimate" with each other, it makes me feel uncomfortable. But this is my own personal preference and it is regardless of gender of the dolls. It is why i like the fact DoA doesn't allow intimate dolly pictures. I don't mind kissing or hugging or anything that is could be considered "sweet" through. Something like this - http://softpoison.deviantart.com/art/Something-nice-for-Tekmanman-289845710 for example i think is sweet.

I can understand why someone would also have a problem with someone coming up to you and saying: "This my my doll, his name is X and this is his sexual orientation." Because it is a pretty weird thing to do, and shouldn't be the most important thing about the doll, it shouldn't be how you introduce them. I can understand characters being different sexualities because that is how we are, i can see why it would be reflected in our characters and our dolls. The same with bad/touchy traits (to keep this on topic), we as people have them, why not our characters who are often shelled into BJD form?

My personal view on the subject is, i think if you are talking to someone about your doll, and their characters and it comes up that they happen to be gay, or self harm, or they are into bondage. Then that is OK. However if it is like i said before: "This is my doll, they self harm." As a introduction to the doll it can (IMO) come across as ill thought and tasteless.

 

This is one of the best posts I have ever read.
I love you!

 

When people get accused of being flawed human beings for bizarre and offensive reasons, they're gonna get pretty mad.

 

Did you really just go there? Nevermind that speaking of personal religion really has no place on a forum such as this, but you should really have the sense and tact to realize that you don't just up and say that someone's orientation is wrong and SIN when there are people with such that sexual orientation on this forum. And lets not forget that there are likely many that do not share your religious views... myself included.

How in the world did this go from touchy character traits to "homosexuality is wrong and sinfu"? After all it has been made very clear that Homosexuality is not a character trait. Therefore, it needs to stop being brought up because it is not even relevant to this debate.

I see no bashing going on. I see people getting upset because a person just said that it is wrong for certain people to have a physical relationship just because those two people are of the same gender. We have every right to be upset. People feel strongly about that issue, and it's a can of worms that shouldn't have been opened in the first place.

And I will say it again: the issue does not even have a place in this debate. Sexual orientation is not a character trait. It should not have been brought up and after plenty of people have made it clear that it did not belong in this thread, it should have been dropped. What I'm disappointed in is the fact that there are still people out there lacking the common decency to keep something so blatantly offensive to themselves...

 

I can understand why religion could come up because it is personal to people, and for some people it is part of everyday lives. However i do think there is a balance to this, and i agree that telling people they are wrong because your religion says so, is not socially acceptable because we do not all believe the same.

I do however agree with you, that this thread should not be talking about if homosexuality is wrong, because it is not a character trait. Therefore we should move on and get back on topic.

 

This topic has been discussed and discussed and discussed on Den of Angels. It usually doesn't degenerate into this "type" of argument...but it's pretty apparent that the outrage and dissolution of the thread is coming from individuals. For the thread to remain open debate must return to character traits given to dolls and not how an individual member interprets sin. If this cannot happen and may not be possible because of the way the original "debate" was worded, then the thread will be locked.

Happy posting!

 

Thank you, Rosslyn and I agree with you. This entire derailing wouldn't have been necessary if we'd just kept the opinions of people we don't agree with to themselves and ignored it.

EDIT
Nevermind, Zagzagael posted just before I did.

In any case, I don't mind if characters have taboo character traits. But, as a writer, I'm much more interested in balanced character who's behaviour is logical considering their background and viewpoints.
I wouldn't even mind if someone came up with a pedophile. The story doesn't have to constantly underline that it's wrong, I'd rather enjoy a more neutral standpoint (because stories are usually much stronger when you're not trying to preach).

As long as you treat the topic with care, I'm all for it and might even want to read it. If not, it's still up to you to create a character you want, but I'd ignore it.

 

Ok Dollie people, lets end this sexualaly oriatated discussion.
1.Dolls dont have sex! thats why the Doll Market is so boyent.
2.IF there is a God, He/She made us that way.
3.THE END

 

I didn't actually think that their would be a "taboo" trait for a doll, but actually i think something like a paedophile would be in my opinion. I would feel very uncomfortable with the idea, even if there was a well explained backstory behind it. I don't mind so much in stories because you need sometimes to have bad people in stories to make them more interesting. However because people tend to love their dolls so much, and grow really attached to them. In a way i think there is where the creepy line would be drawn for me.

I do however agree in a lot of cases that a well balanced character is a good thing, and this does include bad things that person might have. But as i said in my original comment, the bad or taboo thing shouldn't be the defining feature of the doll, that you introduce your doll when you meet someone new.

 

I know, which is why I'd love to read/see a good story about the topic. I don't think dolls are the appropriate medium for such a thing, though, but that is my personal feeling on the matter.

Still, one of the best movies I recently saw is The Woodsman. For once, the writer decided to let the main character struggle with paedophilia. I thought it was a strong move. Although the writer does not condone the main character's sexual preference, he made him a likeable human being. It allowed the story to have a very profound message, that also questioned, and showed the consequences of, the way we sometimes treat people who are (suspected of being) a paedophile.

The more we talk about things, the less it becomes a taboo and I think this is a good thing, no matter what the topic is.

 

Wow, that was an entertaining dip into the reactionary sideshow backwaters of human thought, for awhile. I thought I heard banjos. OP, steer clear of those whirlpools and just make your scarred BDSM doll. Tell your story as you see fit. The only rules you have to follow here are the content rules for this forum. If your story skews adults-only in language or photo, then move it to an 18+ forum.

If you overthink your character & build him according to what some pack of diverse strangers thinks is acceptable, the character will never ring true to your own ears. He'll also be flat & unbelievable, because he was filtered through so many other people's filters. So make him good or bad or controversial or bland, but make him true. If what you create offends some stranger out there, they'll hit the Back button. Just get on with it.

 

Oh i think for a film or a story that is try to show you different view points it is OK to talk about things that are taboo. I think things like films and stories to try and show understand from another point of view can be a good thing. But that is a whole new debate.

Why it would bother me for a doll, is that they are often objects that we love. And for me, it would be a little be to weird to have a doll that was a paedophile. I think it is because a paedophile upsets and hurt others. And in a way i feel like it shouldn't be glorified, and having you doll, who you love an cherish in a way could be seen that way.

Where as other things that are taboo, i don't feel so strong about, which is why i wouldn't mind someone's doll who was into bondage or something like that.

It is true that your character should come from you and you shouldn't worry about such things, but i think (minus the backwards movement this thread took) it is kind of an interesting subject to debate about.

 

this is like the first line someone who is homophobic (or racist or sexist) ever says when accused of being so.

most people in the GLBT community claim that you are 'born gay', but i personally ask the question: why does it matter? if scientists one day can prove that you can't be 'born gay', that entire defense falls out the window for us. no person who is GLBT wants that to happen (and if they DO prove you can be born gay - in other words there is a "gay" gene - that's also against the interests of the community since you will have homophobes rushing to find a "cure").
in short, regardless of whether it is "natural" to be gay or not, society needs to accept that it is simply not wrong. and ftr, i think that people can be both born gay and become gay and that in neither case is their sexuality invalidated.

safe from what? the ignorant views that perpetuate homophobia and anti-gay discrimination/violence, such as the ones you are expressing?

yet again implying that being gay is a 'flaw'

when i was 5 or 6 years old, i did not know what being 'gay' 'bisexual' or 'transgender' was. my parents did not allow me to watch TV or movies unless they supervised me the whole time, only allowed me to read certain books, absolutely no magazines, and back in the early 90s there was no internet in our household...aside from the fact that i was too young to use it anyway.
i had absolutely no exposure to the media and was basically sheltered/shut in by my parents except for going to school. but, i was in love with one of my female friends at school. i knew that i wanted to kiss her and and i remember plenty of times i felt attracted to her or she did things like touching my arm/playing with my hair/etc that were sexual to me, even though i did not fully understand it. i asked my babysitter if girls could get married one day and she said no. upset by this declaration, i staged a marriage between two of my Barbie dolls.
i'm pretty sure that a lot of other people can tell you similar stories.
even if you believe that the children are being 'turned gay', aside from the fact that it doesn't matter if that even is the case (see my point i made earlier), we can also look to the animal kingdom. many animals have been shown to conduct homosexual activity and i have this funny feeling that it's not because they went to a gay pride parade.

again, this is one of the first things people who are discriminatory will ever say when called out. you have "nothing against" them BUT... you are against them.

we are all imperfect, i admit. some of us are homophobic, for example.

i know at this point this post has nothing to do with dolls so if a mod wants to step in and reap justice they are welcome to. normally i would ignore the topic but this is something that is hard for me to ignore when someone is saying things like you are saying.
ftr, if anyone wishes to know, i don't identify as straight or gay. i have been attracted to both males and females since i was a little girl which is why i have such strong feelings about the issue.

 

Sooo, back to "touchy" character traits, it seems that there is a sliding scale for what is "touchy" in the first place. You might think you are conforming to the normative, but depending on where you post you could blend in or come off as a right-wing extremist or a degenerate heathen. I don't know that there is much else to say, other than what's been said already: chose your venue wisely, because the Internet doesn't forget.