Trying to Understand the BJD Industry

The vibe I'm getting from Hugo, after reading all 7 pages of comments, is that he's an opportunist. He's heard about BJDs, their cost, and their collectibility and, incorrectly, made an assumption that they are a durable investment item. He's in it to make money, not to enjoy a new hobby. He's projecting a typically American entitlement outlook onto a niche art market. He wants the BJD market to have the same kind of business model that a corporation like General Motors has. There is no emotion, no interest, no fun in it for him. Just money and how to make it. Personally, I've found his comments highly offensive.

Hugo, spend your dollars on land or gold, not dollies. They aren't the make money quick scheme you're looking for.

 

Understanding the BJD business:
If the original poster was interested in making money enough to be self-supporting with dolls as a small producer, I think this is someone who does it very successfully as a one-person business
http://www.enchanteddoll.com/

BUT..these are the caveats. She uses porcelain, not resin, and expensive materials. There is a good deal of individual variation in each piece, as they are one-offs and hand made. She charges much more for them than one would pay for a cast bjd, closer to the "real" value of the piece in terms of time spent and materials used. And this is ALL she does, 24/7. Every piece she makes has a little bit of her soul in it..she's totally obsessed with the dolls. A bit of a Faustian bargain, perhaps?
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Now, let's say you want to break into the bjd bsiness as a DOA-on-topic producer, in a clean, professional, state of the art factory, with high quality control. You'd want to model Volks, then, and you would want a side business casting resin parts for industry to support the doll side of the business, because making something that people buy for fun, rather than replacement hips, is extremely fickle. You'll need a dependable cash flow to fund the materials and fixed costs of the dollie biz. And THEN..

... You'll have to put up with an endless stream of annoying customer whining about: the shape of your doll's noses, the engineering of the joints, that you shipped 2 days late, that there were ridges inside the torso, that your sculpts don't have mermaid tails, or that you don't offer it in blue. Never mind that your resin in the best in the business, your side business of hip replacement parts lets you hire the most talented body engineer out there (cough*shinydollthaasa*cough), or that you have a logistics and warehouse manager that graduated from West Point. The only reason that you should ever get into this business has to be not to make money (that is what we have investment bankers for, apparently) but because you really, truly, love the dolls, the feel of the resin, the way the light shines through it, the glorious toxic smell, and the perfect little face that you lift out of the mold for the first time...

..Because that is the only way you are going to get through that 3 am call where the latest shipment to Europe got dropped off the side of the Nordic Star when the loading cable broke, and now you owe lots of money to all kinds of people in the EU, and that the ingredients that were just delivered to your factory were contaminated with pigeon poop , all 28 tons of it, now waiting in the rail cars pulled up outside the depot, and the shipper wants to be paid now, thx, he doesn't care about what's in the cars, and that dye lot no 12 is just a *hair* greener than the last batch, because there was a riot in Senegal and the factory couldn't deliver the pthalo green you needed, so they got Brazilian pthalo instead.

So don't say you weren't warned

 

I agree with you -- and pretty much figured the same. However, for someone who is hoping to make money off this (as unlikely as that actually is), he's going about things in a very strange way. If one wants to make money off something they have to learn about it and the people who will be buying it. However, it's pretty clear that he has little interest in what hobbyists have to say, so why even bother?

 

I saw on his profile that he wants to open a BJD factory. The word factory makes me uneasy, because I think he's envisioning the BJD creation process as some kind of slick assembly line manufacturing operation and it simply isn't.

He mentioned earlier that an American BJD company could step into the ring and be successful, but history has shown those that have, like Goodreau, aren't really all that successful with the larger BJD market.

 

Here's one reason why people make dolls out of resin, rather than other types of plastic, Hugobopp: making silicone molds and casting resin is, relatively speaking, cheap to do. A lone artist can set themselves up pretty well for about a thousand bucks, which would include a pressure pot, air compressor, and all the materials needed to make molds and actually cast pieces. Not a ton of space is needed, either. Other types of plastic, on the other hand, require enormous pieces of very expensive machinery and use difficult to fabricate metal molds. That said, there are only a few types of resin available currently (from what I understand, there are 5 or 6 types of resin in the world), and I'm quite sure that if someone came up with a stable, affordable, environmentally friendly version, people would happily use it. Unfortunately, coming up with that sort of resin is a job for a plastics developer, not a doll maker.* There is supposedly a resin formula being used for some dolls that is less toxic, though I don't know much about it. Something to research. Lastly, part of the reason it's hard to maintain continuity of color with resin batches is because many of the dyes are thick and gloppy, much like oil paint straight out of the tube, which makes it tricky to measure and mix. I hope that helps to answer one or two of your questions a bit.


*as a side note, I do hope that someone, someday can come up with a good, sturdy, stable plastic that can be used for this type of doll that doesn't involve petroleum products. That would be pretty awesome.

 

Erm, well my personal opinion (which I'm giving because you did in fact, ask for it) is that BJDs are not a mass produced object. Full stop. That's just how it is- it may seem like they are, but really, that's most likely why there are so many limiteds- when companies want to produce something new, it's easier to make it in short batches. For producing basic things it's just as difficult- think about it, all these dolls are designed, sculpted and finished by hand- by HAND friend, and that's an awful lot of hands on work if you'll permit me the pun.

You can't expect perfection- it's impossible. Your precious GAP is producing products using machines that are calibrated to do exactly what the company wants. Those machines are placed in Work Zones in various third world countries where the clothing is assembled by workers that have no benefits for a pittance per day. If you'd like to talk about Green, then surely you'd like to talk about raising a family on $6 USD per month? Because let me tell you friend- that's no joke.

BJD companies are doing a remarkably effective job then, at creating this product that is so specific to consumer demands in a market that can't really be analyzed because it's generally subjective. For a group of people that probably didn't major in "dollmaking" they're doing an excellent job at providing us with products that we are pleased to consume. So basically, if you aren't with 'us' on this, then this is where the bandwagon stops for you friend.

 

They tend to fall short of getting the look right. To be really popular with the bjd market, I think a person really has to immerse themselves in it or they have little hope in getting things 'right', so to speak -- that's why to me, anyway, the Western abjd makers that have done a good job tend to come out of this community -- people like Lume Doll, and Tinybear for example. It's hard to step in from outside and really be able to understand what it is that people want, what their expectations are, what the competitions like without really doing some research. Perhaps that's what this guy is hoping to do, but research is useless if you don't actually use it, and since he either rights off people's replies or seems to ignore them, the whole thing is completely pointless -- unless he's really trying for a failed business

 

One of the most important aspects one must understand when starting a business is understanding the prospective customer. In this way, Hugo is spot on -- when companies expand into a new market, they need to understand the customer. In this hobby, however, there is a mingling of local-to-the-company expectations and typical Western customer expectations, and they've blended considerably. In part due to the cost of the items -- and I'll note they are high cost items rather than necessarily being high profit margin items -- people have typically investigated what to expect more than they might in some other industry or hobby. This means there's a lot of people who have come to understand what they're going to get, and why.

I see no reason to go after Iplehouse as a 'bad example'. I would instead use them as a very good example. They have posted notice of their upcoming move. They didn't have to create a special sale for their customers, but they did. I liken this to the 'end of the day' deals you find at some art and craft fairs, where people will sometimes be willing to offer a bit of a discount just to not have to pack something up and lug it home. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and generally speaking, there aren't a lot of those to go around; I'm impressed with Iplehouse that they took this approach. It's smart. It gets a lot of sales for them, and leaves them with less to lug around. More importantly, they were clear about the fact that this is exactly what they are doing. They gave instructions about what to do if we didn't find the exact doll we wanted in stock -- and have kept up with it, from what I've read in their waiting room. I bought a doll during this sale that I'd planned to wait a while to purchase, in fact. Was the site a little confusing? Sure. But I'm smarter than a ground squirrel, so it wasn't exactly difficult to figure out what to do.

As to sold out items appearing on various sites, while I can understand this may be frustrating to someone who wants to make a purchase, I view this in the same way I view a portfolio: "This is the sort of work I can expect to find from this company." When I had my jewelry site up, I had a gallery of sold pieces for precisely this reason -- and all of that work was one of a kind. I see the same thing on a great many artist's and craftspeople's websites, and considering that these dolls are artisan crafts, it does not surprise me in the least to encounter the same practice. That's actually what I expect to find on an artist's site. It surprises me that someone who extensively collects art is aghast to find such a thing, actually. I also find that seeing these items on the web site lets me know what -- while I might not be able to find it direct from the creator -- I might want to look for on the secondary market, how much was paid for it, and that gives me a good idea of what I would be willing to spend for it now.

Edit: Also, I have to loudly applaud fishcake's post. It's spot on re: the frustrations of manufacturing. Those aren't now-and-again crises, either, they're the everyday reality. Good to keep in mind.

 

And I think that many of us would agree that imperfection is part of the charm. Even the most beautifully sculpted doll will have quirks, because human hands crafted it. That's certainly very appealing to me.

 

This is why I don't mind seam lines on my dolls...I do find them oddly charming.

 

After reading through this thread, Hugobopp? I have only this to say.

If you're that unhappy with what the BJD companies sell, then;
1) Don't buy it.
2) Make your own ball-jointed dolls. Work with resin yourself, and let's see how perfect your dolls are, hm?
3) As for imperfections in dark/tan resin- most companies, if not all, warn you explictly, due to the nature of the resin, any imperfections there are are going to be more visible, or there may be trouble matching up colours. Buyer Beware, mate.
4) I think what you're trying to say is that there should be no imperfections, but you know what? Nothing, not one single thing is this world is perfect. Everything in the world, and everyone in it, has flaws. Get over it.

 

Also, some companies do use more environmentally friendly resin. I think there are far more important things to worry about environmentally....

 

surreality hits on a lot of what I think.
I really only read the first page of posts before getting frustrated.

I totally see where Hugo was coming from because I've been in the same boat starting a company. It's easy to criticize someone else's business practice.

I recently help start a company after leaving a company that was run very poorly. It is very common for artists not to have the best business sense and not properly manage things. I know, I've LIVED through the horribleness of an "artsy" run game company. My current biz partner DOES have an understanding of business and how to run things.

Point is that understanding a customer base IS important. But I also agree that the business plan for a company creating what are essentially hand made goods HAS to utilize a different strategy than a mass-producing chain would. As many people pointed out already, the production of resin BJD is very dependent on circumstances associated with weather.

However, I have to agree with Hugo's frustration about having Not-for-sale dolls up on a page if they do not plan to restock it. I don't think it's wrong but it can be frustrating if it is 90% of what's on the page. If it's for portfolio purposes, a gallery I think is better suited for that. Unless there are plans for a mass restock, in which case, OMG when will they be on sale again I can't wait! (Ahem, I mean, excellent advertising strategy...you know your customers well. )

 

In the case of Iplehouse, having their sold out limiteds pictured does serve a very practical purpose since you can order those faceups with their CDS system.

 

I've been reading this from page one, all the way to page seven and went to bed probably
still subconsciously reading it.(and I tell ya this will probably go into a resin archive all it's own)

But the biggest thing that baffled me was the griping about the costumer service and products, while
in fact, America itself has the worst costumer service you'd probably ever see!

Speaking to a rep that was polite and actually tried to fix your problem was a GODSEND when
I first came into this hobby! And again, the bad stories you hear about are NOT the whole of the buying
experience in this hobby! How can you tell foreigners how they should run their business when you talk
to a Costumer service rep over here in the US and they barely care about your business? @@

I know that's not the whole of the US, and my point is, is neither is it the whole of
these businesses either. How can you complain about missing good service you don't even
get in your own country? And in my opinion, there is nothing abnormal about the way they
run their businesses.

These are quirks to the hobby that you not only learn to deal with
but really kind of give meaning to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

 

Wow. You really don't get this hobby at all, do you? Your arrogance is astounding - that you can sit there and all but say that you have all the answers about a hobby you don't understand is insulting to those doll owners and creators who have spent years studying and designing these beautiful dolls. To have them reduced to a commodity that is "dying out"...well, I'm shocked.

Like I said before, do yourself a favor and invest in something that you can actually understand.

 

Eh, I already called troll--and I'll repeat it--because this is some of the most blatant missing-of-the-point I've seen.

DoA will be "increasingly irrelevant"? DoA is just a forum, almost certainly run at a loss, not a for-profit company or an activist group.

And again with the tax season thing. I don't think Americans account for as large a share of Iplehouse's sales as you think. Nor do I think they are just so many Americans awaiting that tax return that have such large holes in their wallets that closing for two months will doom the company. We don't even know the exact reasons for the move in the first place! How can you make a sweeping judgement about that?

Possible scenario: expanding operations to a new facility, estimated time to full production, 2-3 months. If they move now, they can make summer convention season: a way more important time for their industry than the tax season of one country. There's always another sales opportunity in the future if you know what's most relevant.

And you repeat a call for dolls to be non-Asian... again missing entire point of the forum! Will you next suggest to a painter's forum that they should all switch to cameras because paint is dying off and increasingly irrelevant?

I would say since you seem to consider yourself a "corporate hotshot" of some sort, you underestimate what a cottage industry actually is. The point of a cottage industry is that its participants are small and cheap. Cheap to start, cheap to fold, cheap to run. One person in a garage working weekends can start a "company" like this. If an existing company fails, it fails. Says more about the individuals running the company than the industry as a whole though.

I think you are stuck in Bigville, where ventures, companies, sales and pretty much all numbers have to be big. Conquer the world with the Good News, right? As much as I like them personally, I'm not deluded enough to think that the world at large--that millions instead of thousands--will ever share that enthusiasm. There are too many other things in the world--iPods, Porsches, the Gap you love so much, gasoline, food--just to care about silly dolls.

Other countries can and do have their own doll scenes. BJDs as they exist now were inspired by many such European creations in the first place. More power to them. But they are irrelevant here.

For they are off-topic. Just like you.

 

I really doubt BJDs are going to go the way of the hula hoop because of one company. One company went out. How many new companies came in this year? There are new people joining the hobby all the time. If anything, it looks like it's still expanding to me. Maybe I think this because I don't have a super special business sixth sense, but I just don't see it.

 

You act like people are incapable of holding on to that tax refund money until the store opens again. Surprise! People who want the doll will wait.

it's cute that you think the hobby is going to omg change because of people who are "like you". Surprise again! We're doing quite well, thank you, and while some companies flounder and fail, find me an industry similar to this that doesn't have its ups and downs. I'd love to see you explain the rabid masses who collect ancient My Little Ponies, TY Beanie Babies, and other very old toys. There's no investment. There often is little satisfaction in the companies' newer products in these lines.

As long as people like these dolls, they will continue to be sold. And as long as these oh-so-woefully unsophisticated people keep sharing the genuine love for the hobby with new people, more newcomers will buy new dolls, customer bases expand, and slowly but steadily the doll hobby grows.

Please try harder to tell me my hobby's businesses are failing, when it's painfully obvious when comparing the number of companies that are around today, in comparison to a year ago, and a year before that, and all the way back to the start, the number of BJD businesses has grown incredibly.

Also I can't wait to see your oh-so-thought-out investments being significantly less valuable in a few years' time. You want to save your money somewhere? Get a bank account, put the money in there, don't touch it. Interest will do the rest.