Uncanny Valley

My doll sometimes looks creepy, but I've never quite had an uncanny valley vibe from him, and likewise with most other ABJDs. Blythes and some of the dolls from the Pullip family I find rather creepy, and also CG characters who have been made to look too realistic but still don't quite look real.

 

I can certainly understand some individuals "fear" of anything related to being human-like and yet, not moving, especially with the way that "Hollywood" has perceived how some of these creatures come to life, such as ax wielding clowns, corpses coming to life and brain-eating zombies, and so I can see some having the fear of all dolls in general.

Yet, for me I think of BJD's as being a part of the art movements and a thing of beauty.

Each person who owns one, has taken painstaking steps to achieve them to the beauty that they wish them to be, so I have a hard time thinking of them as something "creepy" or "scary", but one of breathtaking gorgeousness.

 

The very first time I saw bjd's that kinda happened to me. I was freaked out by the hyper-realistic dolls, I think one was an Iplehouse ^^;; and I remember thinking it was WAY too realistic and creepy...

Now I just appreciate it for its artistic quality XD

 

The only dolls who fall into the Uncanny Valley for me are porcelain dolls. I don't like their starey eyes. I've never been creeped out by BJDs or other dolls, I just think they're cute or beautiful. When I discovered this thread I'd never heard of the Uncanny Valley before, then not two days later I found this: http://www.timhunkin.com/a158_uncanny-valley.htm. If you have time it's worth a look. Tim Hunkin is the host of the wonderfully 80s science show "The Secret Life of Machines."

 

I've loved reading this thread. I'm fascinated by the uncanny valley, it's part of the attraction of BJDs for me, the more real I can make them look the better. I have to say I've yet to find a doll that affects me the same way as corpses, I'm not sure perhaps the doll would have to be much more realistic or more human scale (although 'real dolls' dont bother me either, maybe if I saw one up close). Sometimes pictures give me a bit of an uncanny valley vibe too, photographs where people are looking intently out at you especially heads at lifesize scale. Or even some photographs of corpses. I also find if I stare at my own reflection in the mirror too long I freak out (but maybe that's just my face!). I have to say, I think robotics still has a way to go before robots fall into the uncanny valley, for me at least.

I'd love to know what exactly goes on in our brain to make us react like that. And how to reproduce it in dolls or artwork. How subtle does the oddness have to be? Does it have to hit some particular triggers in us? It's so instinctive, there's no room for intellectualising just -bang!- "that's wrong and it unnerves me".

This is a fairly interesting article, apparently monkeys have a sense of the uncanny valley, too.

ETA: Thanks for the link, Bohemian, it's a really interesting.

p.s. muzikluvr I'm listening to plastic beach right now, you icon is a helpful visual aid ^_^

 

Even though I've always had dolls and loved dolls, they've always scared me too. I could never keep my dolls in bed with me at night as a child even though I adored them during the day. It was because my mind would play tricks on me and make me feel like they're breathing or moving on their own. I've only had a small amount of trouble like this with my doll and usually only when I'm already feeling creeped out. But yes, I do get the uncanny valley feeling sometimes.

 

I just thought it was kinda funny: I looked up "Uncanny Valley" on wikipedia to read a bit more about it, and in one of the "related searches" thing at the bottom it had "Ball-jointed doll"

But yeah, to the point, I don't really get the "Uncanny Valley vibe from my doll. Or any of these dolls really. The only real vibe I get is from the dolls that have the joints shopped out. It's just, to me, I know they're dolls, but they don't look like dolls, but they're DOLLS. So, in short. No. I don't think these transcend the uncanny valley.

 

I don't usually have much of a sense of the Uncanny Valley. I think the closer something is to reality, the more there will be a sense that something just isn't right. Most BJDs are not that realistic! Some can look more realistic if they are sculpted and painted and dressed and photographed a certain way. But usually, one still knows that they are dolls that can be mistaken for real humans at a glance--and that may creep some out, but not me--since I know they are dolls. I'll just marvel at how life-like they seem!

However, if dolls get more and more realistic, the more I will begin to (maybe) feel the Uncanny Valley, unless the doll really are just so good that there IS no Uncanny Valley--they look like people with no bit of oddness to freak anyone out. For example... in 3D animation, the creatures and humans that are supposed to be absolutely realistic can often look really fake because it's so easy to tell that something just isn't quite right. Hyper realistic 3D humans used to be avoided because of this. Stylized looks (like most BJDs--and like FF characters, for instance) are more acceptable since we know this is fantasy/fiction/game and they are characters there, not in our world, walking among a mess of regular humans. But 3D is getting better and better at reality-- with LotR's Gollum (well, he was creepy anyway, so any Uncanny Valley is all to the best with him), and "Avatar" (also... they are aliens, so Uncanny Valley feelings may be acceptable to some degree there, too... although they need to by sympathetic, so it can't be felt a LOT). So far we don't see 3D humans that mix with live-action humans because they are not quite there yet with simulating reality well enough to avoid the Uncanny Valley... but I'm guessing it's only a matter of time!

Having super-realistic BJDs, no matter how well-done, might still be a bit freaky since they are wrong size... and even if life-size... they will be too stiff and unmoving to be comfortable for most people...

I think an amazingly well-done Android could diminish the UV some day... but maybe not!

 

Very interesting topic. I have not heard of the Uncanny Valley before. I love learning about things you don't find normally in everyday conversations. For me I have to agree with what others have posted, my dolls do not fall in that category but I can see how for others they do. Take several Youtube videos that talk about dolls that are alive. For some watching those videos freaks people out but for me they just seems silly. I do not believe in a lot of mythical stuff although I do enjoy it. I am gonna have to read more about this subject.

 

Normally for me I don't have these problems because I know it's a doll, but I've encountered several non-doll people who do. I've noticed that people have a real problem getting on an elevator with a doll. I even had one guy hesitate at the door and then step in and mumble a comment about how at first he thought it was a real child an then realized the proportions were off. I also had a friend who was not alarmed by the doll in his fully clothed/wigged state, but freaked when I yanked off his wig and head plate to show her how to change his eyes.

I believe the problem with the Uncanny Valley comes about with people who are not expecting to see such a realistic doll in the hands of someone who is generally considered too old to like dolls. People get by on heuristics (commonly accepted knowlege) because we don't like to have to think indebth about every little thing we see. Therefore dolls = for female children and stylized. The surprise and fear comes from the fear of the unknown. People don't expect to see an adult carrying a doll, so they don't see a doll, they see something else. It then will force someone to think deeply about what they've just seen and this also generally makes people uncomforatable.

Er, I realize this sounds mean and shallow, but I'm taking a social psychology class right now. It's very difficult to try and sum up an entire semester's learing in a short post. None of this is supposed to be derogatory. It is based off of many studies and facts about how the human brain deals with everyday life.

 

Oh, not mean or shallow at all! I think it's fascinating. True, people do get quite ruffled by anything that disrupts their typical experience. It's kinda cute. Heuristics, huh? I'll have to look that up. I've always wondered what preconceived notion forces a non-doll-person to see a baby when we (bjd folks) know it's a 63 cm adult male doll who happens to be wearing medieval clothes and is very skinny, with a beard! How strong these preconceived ideas are! Really just intriguing.

 

Yes, I have my floating ryu head on a stand I made for him out pf a turkey baster and a box, and there were two ways his head could sit on it; looking down or looking up. I leave him looking down because the light in my room is more flattering to him that way. His eyes are tilted upward, as though he is looking at something to his left, and his stand is to the right of my full doll, and elfdoll soah. One day, his head is tilted upward and toward her, and with his eyes and smile it looks like he's flirting with her. And then I remember he's a floating head.

 

The only time i've felt the "uncanny valley" feeling is when I've seen photos of re-bron baby dolls.
I find that very unsettling.

BJD's are fine... the resemblance isn't close enough. Even ones with extremely lifelike faces... the bodies are ball jointed and therefore still "doll like" to me.

 

this is really interesting and fascinating!
could I ask you if you could provide some lecture and studies to learn something more? I'd realli lke to learn more in general.

something like the guy hesitating at the door happened to me too. I was taking pictures outdoor, in a nice garden, and a woman almost yelled at my back "Oh my god that's real?!"... and immediately after realized it was just a doll... and started to get uneasy... it has been a strange experience to me, it was my first time out with the doll... and I still don't know what to think about it XD I remeber I just stared at her quite blankly, saying "of course it's a real doll"...

I guess I've to agree with the UV effect about reborns... and that's because, i guess, newborn babies (real ones) creep me a little. they're human, but not adults, not "right".
the same I can say about that youtube video about the bjd slow motion. I felt really uneasy. it's not supposed to move, and mostly not in that... way. was natural and unnatural all together.

otherwise, I've never had that feeling with bjds, neither in real life, nor in photos. I see them like dolls, or, quite often, like an expression of art...

thank you for this interesting discussion!

 

Idk, my little one has so many little quirk it's hard to consider her completely devoid... without even trying I'll set her down just so that she's sitting up and not falling over and she'll go into a perfect pose ready for me to take her picture... or when I'm changing her clothes she'll make random very human like poses... I know there more coincidence then anything... it's just that she constantly has so much living quality to her I almost forget she's a doll ^^;

*only ones I actually find creepy are the ones that don't look human in general... mainly the ones that try to look too anime

 

I can't handle porcelin dolls at all. They terrify me. And bjds did too, at first. But now they don't frighten me at all. However, I still can't handle the more anime like bjds! Weird, isn't it? I like to have my bjds on the realistic side, because the more anime styled they are, the more UV effect I feel. I think because they are clearly not human but my brain is trying to register their appearence as human? Fantasy styled dolls help remove that effect for me though, which is why the first bjd I truly wanted is fairly stylised, but also has lovely big elf ears.

Real Dolls are very dead faced UV for me. Reborns, not so much, mostly because I love babies, and those dolls look like unappealing dolls to me. And CGI humans! I can't handle the more realistic CGI humans, not at all. Way too creepy.

 

I've known someone who is terrified of cotton wool balls, so, frankly, the fact that some people are scared by dolls doesn't surprise me at all. I've never heard the phrase "Uncanny Valley" before, I think people are rightly unnerved by corpses as they are a reminder or our own mortality surely? Robots and dolls, don't unnerve me in the least, nor waxworks really and I'm lucky in that they don't bother any of my family/friends either.

My only experience of this was many years ago being in a bar at Production Village near Cricklewood and there was a display of props from Hellraiser (yes, THAT long ago!). I'd been standing with a group of friends quite near to the Hellraiser display and "admiring" a really hideously gooey skinless corpse that was stretched out on the floor in a crawling position when it suddenly came alive and scuttled away across the room! That freaked us all out and made everyone else in the bar fall about with laughter as this had obviously happened many times before. Sudden movement often starteles but the thing had looked so realistic it really did unnerve me, but I have to say, a tiny BJD corpse, however realistic just wouldn't have the scale to make that association in my head.

 

I think i have done with some people's photo's they look almost real but not quite right. So yes i guess i can see that going on!

 

sometimes visitors to my house are freaked out by how much my dolls can pose, and look too human for them, I guess it is the resembalance to humans that attracted me to dolls as and adult collector in the first place. I especially like the bjd's for that reason, and they are fun!

 

You know what sets off my Uncanny Valley is, modern beauty magazines (Vogue, Elle, etc). These days, models are now so completely distorted and Photoshopped and airbrushed that (A) they're now eerily & unappealingly shaped like dolls, like badly-sculpted fashion dolls, and (B) their skin has zero texture so it looks like resin with an airbrush faceup. They don't catch the light like human beings, they're no longer shaped like human beings, they're no longer textured like human beings... they don't register as photos of human beings. They register as "not quite right". Models themselves are being physically erased from the fashion industry.

Makes me wonder: Why don't they just use dolls instead? Dolls're already perfectly smooth & hairless. They're already inhumanly thin. They've already got unrealistically long legs and unblinking stares. And, unlike models, dolls don't get strung out on cocaine, have tantrums & throw things at photographers, or binge on 72 cupcakes & then vomit blood trying to purge afterwards.