Uncanny Valley

I think those dolls creep me out because of the shape of their heads. Most bjds have small chins and jaws; these ones have larger ones, and it makes their shape a little too realistic. That, and they look really unhappy to be there. (I always find that creepy--it's like they're trapped doing what their owners want. I always empathise too much with inanimate objects, including things like tables, let alone dolls. >_>)

Their cheeks are also a little chubby--this is what I found unlikeable about most porcelain dolls, the fact that a lot of the time they had child-like, chubby faces on elongated, more teenage-proportioned bodies. That, and their smiles, and their wide eyes, put me off. (It puts my mother off, too--when I was small, she made me a Princess Elizabeth (I) doll, and had to look for ages before she found a non-smiling head.)

That's what I like about most of the mildly-realistic bjds--they don't smile too widely, their eyes aren't too wide, and the apparent age of their heads fits better with the apparent age of their bodies. That's why bjds aren't in the UV for me--that, and their size. It's impossible to think that they're human, but they're certainly human enough to empathise with.

 

A lot of Dollmore's dolls are kind of creepy to me because they have very realistic faces but the bodies don't really match that. I like realistic dolls, and I like less realistic dolls too, but when you mix the two it just freaks me out a little. D:

 

With me, at least, most of the Uncanny Valley effect exists between the battle of emotion/non-emotion. For example, I can try to make my doll look "happier" by painting a new faceup. But is it really happy? Maybe it doesn't like it. But then, dolls are inanimate objects and don't really feel.

It's a battle between logic and creativity. My creativity wants the BJD to think and to feel, even though it can't move on its own. Granted, this wouldn't be all the time, but some of the time I'd want it to be true. My logic tells me it's no more alive than a painting or a sculpture, something I can relate to, having created several of each.

At the same time, I'm taught to "respect" inanimate objects, almost as if they were alive. For example, I own a deck of tarot cards. There are a few key rules that you absolutely don't disrespect them by neglect, damage, or lack of respect towards what they could embody. You don't step on cards, leave them somewhere to rot, etc.

A doll is certainly expressive. Without changing wig, clothes, or faceup, a doll's facial expression can look different based upon angle and lighting. This gives an illusion of a certain, albeit limited, range of emotion. I don't find my doll disturbing, however. Really, more traditional American-style dolls are creepier, and I think it's because of the difference in proportion. I don't mind child-looking dolls, but not all children are chubby. BJD to me represent a more accurate portrayal of human proportion at any stage of life than most other style of dolls (This is not to say 60cm is adult, 45 child, 20 young child, etc. some 45s look very young, some older; but they seem to accurately embody SOME age. Some other dolls seem to me uncanny because many features are obviously human, but the proportions don't fit with any human I can associate with.)

There are times, however, when this difference between wanting to imagine emotions and the reality of the absence of gets to me and does put me in the uncanny valley. But unless I'm really thinking about it while looking at my doll, I don't mind.

 

Huuumm... a very very interesting topic...

After reading a couple of pages, I'd say I have to agree with the factor of animism comforting me- the idea of an inanimate object possessing a sort of life of it's own. I come from a rather superstitious family, mostly stemming from my father's russian-ness ( : P ) and this sort of thing comes naturally to me... My logical brain may tell me otherwise, but my genes tell me something else. Occasionally we've done things like "purifying" items that seem to cause us bad luck by sealing them in a box of salt, ect ect. It's a small jump to treating something human-shaped as human.

Most dolls frighten me with their helplessness and their staring eyes. In particular I am alarmed by baby dolls- especially old ones. They're "trapped" forever as these... strange... make-uped beings, forced to remain as infants in a sort of purgatory of porcelain. Those staring eyes seem accusatory, especially on the older ones.. *shudder* I think I find BJDs less lifeless in their mobility and in their sculpts and more lifelike eyes. they seems like homunculus to me- little people who are not quite people that we have made in our own image. So far, every time I have met one or held one, I am charmed. I do not like things that remind me too strongly of death, and these do not not remind me of death, although they are not alive...

I don't know if this has been brought up, but the resin BJDs are made from is largely what makes them appealing. Porcelain, rags, wood, these things look profoundly dead when made into a human shape- but resin does not. It is partially translucent, just like skin, and it reacts to light and in photos much the way our own skin does. Because of this, even the palest BJD will look beautiful and alive when a soft light hits it. Ironically, this semi-translucent quality is what damages them- and perhaps we're even attracted to this- they may not survive us, like a porcelain doll would. No-one knows how resin will hold up after 100 years. They age without aging...

 

hmmm... I start finding dolls really uncanily creepy when they look asian, specifically korean. Like the souldoll dolls. My room mate calls them jay chou look-alikes wannabes. Its the pop-star outfit. I'm expecting the dolls to act out a korean drama when im asleep. that is if I ever own a souldoll lee-min-woo.

 

Good one. It never occurred to me that perhaps it's our gender's specified biological role that dictates why there's an overwhelming female to male ratio in the hobby. It just never dawned on me I suppose. So using this logic, is it possible that women are less susceptible to the uncanny valley theory?

I've seen in various scientific discovery magazines about how girls tend to play with humanoid objects more so than boys. A quick google search can verify this.

I've even come across articles where female owners are more in tune to their pet's needs than male owners as well as having a higher tendency to adorn their pet with collars and outerwear. I think putting a dog in a parka is a way of making it more human-like and thus closer to it being in the uncanny valley. But this could be irrelevant and probably is so.

I don't consider myself a nurturer. To be honest, I despise children and toddlers. So perhaps pursuing ABJDs fulfills an integral and maternal desire for me. It'd be cool to research this further. Like compile facts and figures of male vs. female children and to the degree of uncanniness they voluntarily expose themselves to in their hobbies/activities. I have a feeling female children are more accepting of uncanny objects than their male counterparts.

Perhaps it satisfies a biological need to nurture human and the young of livestock [isn't that sort of the original point of having a pet?] for survival?

 

I couldn't agree more.

I think that, perhaps the translucence enabled by using resin causes an even greater uncannyness [as opposed to using porcelain] in that it more realistically imitates the properties of flesh. Perhaps we all just want androids? xD But I agree with you on that, it does add a dimension of life like quality that many other mediums lack. Perhaps this is why we strive so hard to have eyes and wigs that incite the greatest hint of realism possible.

Perhaps we're all just striving to be Dr. Frankenstein?

 

I think part of what I like about the BJDs is that, for me, I don't have any uncanny valley feelings about them. Maybe partially because they are not life size. The reborn dolls, and most very realistic baby dolls, creep me out big time.

 

I'm an Agalmatophile. The uncanny valley works backwards for me. You know, the old "I like you, but they way you move and are realistically human freaks me out. If you were a statue, of course, I'd date you, you're a really nice sculpt, but I'm sorry. I think we should see other people/things."

 

I just recently figured out why a certain mold gives me the creeps. I don't think dolls are creepy, just like I have no problems with clowns (something else people find scary, because they are not like a "normal" person.). However, the Zaoll Muse mold makes me feel uncomfortable and at first I didn't know why, because it's not an ugly sculpt.

Ugly I could spot pretty easily and it's not an ugliness that bothers me, but it's the mouth that has the uncanny valley effect on me. It's open and it shows teeth, but the mouth is not smiling and to me it doesn't look like a relaxed open mouth a real, living human being would have. It gives me the impression something is off. Like a dead fish staring at me.

At the same time the face-up this zaoll muse has, manages to counter part of the uncanny valley effect for me. Most likely, because the face-up colours are unnatural (grey and yellow mostly) which makes her look less like a "normal" human being and if she's not supposed to be a "normal" human being, it's okay for her have something that is not "normal" for a living human being. At least in my eyes it does. Black and white photographs make the uncanny valley feeling return.

I think it is part of human survival instinct to be repelled by things that look sick (so you won't get sick yourself) and things that look "wrong" or "unnatural" may be a sign of illness. What is "wrong" is partially based on what a person as come to accept as "right" or "normal".
Seeing a doll without a face-up does not bother me, but I once was at a doll fair and some ladies who were not familiar with ABJD came up to me and someone else. We both had the same type of doll, but my doll had a face-up and the other didn't. The ladies indicated that something was not quite right with the face-upless doll, but they couldn't say what exactly. (I think it was the absence of eyebrows and natural colour differences in a face.) My face-upped doll was adorable, while there wasn't much difference between the dolls in clothes and wigs.

Just like that someone else may find the mouth of Zaoll Muse perfectly normal.

 

I don't know if I've ever felt affected by the Uncanny valley. I think that as far as realistic androids go, I would be more hostile toward a female than a male, but that stems less from how "wrong" she may look than from the face that a realistic female android (a walking talking RealDoll, basically) could start to replace human females. It could go the other way also, but since there are more men in positions of power, especially in Japan where those dolls are being developed, it's more likely that women would be replaced rather than men.

As dolls go, however, I've never been afraid of them. I am only grossed out by corpses because I dislike feeling dirty (I used to scrape under my fingernails when I was ten, after every time I went outside to play), and that includes the sort of mental dirty feeling when you touch something you know is unclean, but not exactly why. Clowns and dolls never bothered me, in fact my maternal grandmother collects porcelain clown dolls, and I've always thought that most of them were gorgeous (not the gaudier ones, but the pierrot style ones, which are mostly what she collects). She even bought me a few cheap ones once, with cloth bodies and porcelain faces. I loved them. I had both Barbies and American Girl dolls growing up, and I loved both of them.

I would only be afraid of my dolls if they started moving around. XD As it is, I think they're lovely and wouldn't have them any more or less lifelike.

 

I probably should have put in a disclaimer. I was speaking from personal experience and I wasn't trying to generalize the dollie community. I personally think that my affection for dolls [pets, inanimate objects and etc...] stems from my, personal, maternal nature. Although strangely enough, I don't exude this great "mother of all" nature to just anything. Usually friends, dolls, dolls of friends - you get the idea. Now regular strangers, they can piss off and be hit by a truck.

I came to this conclusion soon after my initial posting. I'm creeped out by babies, I get that "uncanny" feeling around them. Perhaps it's their dysmorphic humanoid shape that I find to be anomalous. Or maybe I'm just weird. Maybe it's the fact that they have the ability to move that intensifies the uncanniness for me. Who knows, children and realistic dolls in the shape of babies [Reborns] do it for me. But not wax figures, robots or ABJD. Just babies..

 

Hrm... Women being replaced. No. What can a man do that a woman can't? Obviously there are areas that men are most frequently better at, but also the same areas robots win at: heavy lifting, math and navigation. Biological functions like making more women are the hardest things to reproduce. I wouldn't mind if women were totally removed from the recreational sex machine. If we enjoyed, or wanted to enjoy recreational sex, we wouldn't involve men.

Okay, that was really OT. Sorry. Just found this comment really interesting.

 

The only time that I ever have this feeling is when I have the head off of the body and there aren't any eyes in. Only when both of those things are met do I look at the doll with a feeling of..."ooo that's weird."
Usually, though, I love my boy and my girls and its a lot of fun.

 

I don't know if is this to me but some molds of dolls make me off, most of the sites were mentioned. I don't know if is about the realism, they usually look sad or in despair and this creeps me.

 

Exactly- it's all in the resin and how people react to it... I personally get a more "dead" feeling from solid plastic ect.- but I find the resin does NOT. I think some people may react in opposite manners- I find this interesting, because I am not sure what the typical reaction is.... then again, the Doll I am planning on will be white-skinned, and this seems to bother some owners.... hummm... *ponders*

there's a question about android dolls around here and if people would want them or not *lurks frequently*. I found the variety of answers to be interesting. Some people jumped at the idea, provided they were still to some extent customizable while Some thought the addition of mechanics would take away that idea. Some people liked the idea of a walking, talking doll, but others seemed to dislike the idea of having any element of the doll out of their control.

I think we all do, deep down, have some element of the good doctor, yes : P
*disturbed by this tought*
ecch... at least I won't abandon my creation on the operating table.

 

What? That's totally wrong. Lots of us women enjoy recreational sex, especially with men (and even without). Sorry, I just had to comment on that.

Back to the subject at hand : I'd love a doll that could move and act on it's own, but at the same time I wouldn't then want a legion of dollies like I do now. Can you imagine how the doll might react, if it became aware that the lifeless dolls were the same as it, just immobile? You think WE get freaked out by the Uncanny Valley, I wouldn't want to subject our own creation to it.

 

I don't put much stock in the Uncanny Valley, really-- I see why people see it, of course, but I guess I'm just the kind of person who also likes it. For example, old fashioned porcelain baby dolls or dolls in that style, even broken ones, strike me as both incredibly pretty and sad, and it makes me want to care of them. Like my dad's old stuffed plush Curious George. Even RealDoll style doll faces are only a little creepy because of what they are.
The thing is, I'm much better with a "blank" or a neutral or sad facial expression than an artificially happy one. Static big smiles alarm me-- especially smirky, smug ones, or playful grins on children. It should be a flash of light, here and then gone, not a painted on carved in smile. And that's hard to do with dolls. I can see why that gives people the jibblies, but not a doll with a small smile or one looking needy and sad. I have pity on inanimate objects-- and I like that, I wouldn't want to cure it. But creepy? I wouldn't consider a doll creepy by itself without a circumstance to make it so (like "haunted" dolls) and even dolls intended to be scary like Little Apple dolls don't spook me.

Now, introduce movement, and it's a whole other kettle of fish. (Like with smiles-- no one smiles *all* the time without ever even closing their mouth. Some things are spooky when they move.) Remember Jude Law in A.I.?

 

I don't think that the dolls fall into the Valley either. The fact that they just resemble humans isn't enough for me, plus they are way to small to be considered human in my mind. Things that do fall into the Valley, like rocks, trees, animals and corpses, are all alive in some way or have been alive before. They are a part of nature and therefore must be treated like a human, in my opinion at least (maybe excluding the rocks XD). These dolls aren't real to me in the human sense, but they do hold a certain air of imitation, not like that's a bad thing.
My doll only creeped me out once. His eyes are a really weird color and in a certain light at a certain angle, it kinda looks like he's going to murder your soul O.o but it only scared me the first time. After that, I just adapted the look to his personallity, and made him cooler

 

Oh, thank goodness it's not just me. I'm at the age where a lot of people I grew up with/coworkers are starting to have children. While I am always happy for friends when they have a baby, and I can appreciate the joy around a new birth, seeing actual babies in-person creeps me out. I've gotten very good at hiding it, but there's just something about them that gives me the heebie-jeebies... It's nothing personal, it's just a weird instinctive reaction I have to all babies, but it's so hard to explain to people so I just hide it. Baby dolls (especially Reborns) also do this. I saw a Reborn in person for the first time a few weeks ago and it was almost a visceral gut reaction of fear.

I've always just assumed that baby dolls creep me out because they are in the same scale as real babies. As others have said... The fashion dolls and action figures I grew up with are so obviously out of scale (and BJDs as well), that it doesn't bother me one bit. Even the more realistic BJDs don't elicit a UV reaction, because they're just so small to be truly "believable" as real people.