Uncanny Valley

I kind of agree on the movie Final Fantasy the Spirits Within, they looked kind of dead. They did a much better job on Final Fantasy Advent Chilren. Not sure it is because they got better at making the animations or because of the less realistic feel to it.

 

I'm never spooked by dolls, but I do have a certain degree of empathy with them. Probably not because they're small human figures, but because they're art. Still, I've not found myself in the Valley with dolls. I know that they have no relation to life whatsoever and as such, it's impossible for me to find myself in the Valley enough to be disturbed by them.

 

nah, I never felt this sort of thing, but I always thought my dolls have souls, because I can feel this presence coming from them when they're here, but they dont feel very human to me, maybe because I think their eyes are way too big for a normal person's eyes?

i am more freaked by those robots that have human like skin and stuff in Japan, I always have this feeling that those things should be destroyed before something goes..wrong. O.o

 

I don't get creeped out by dolls, but I do feel... hm... disturbed when I see dolls with stuff like veins and freckles and other blemishes. Same thing with FF: The Spirits Within. I just couldn't stop thinking, 'what's wrong with her face? Why isn't it perfect?'

 

BJDs don't do this for me, in fact I can only think of one doll that did that to me and it was because it was made to look dead and rotting.

 

Dolls in person don't fall into the uncanny valley with me, because of the scale. And most photoshoots, you can see at least some joints if not something showing scale. My brain can take those, add up to "doll," and appreciate how lifelike it is.
A photoshoot with everything in scale and all the joints hidden/photoshopped out? Creepy. I'm used to people who have pupils that dilate and flesh that shifts.

 

I haven't experienced it with dolls, mostly because even the more realistic ABJDs are stylized enough that they aren't 'real' to my eye.

In part, though, I think it's because I do work with 3D human models on pretty much a daily basis, and as a result, my uncanny valley has shrunk to barely hold enough room for a patch of pukis. The models are 'closer' to humans in some ways, but still obviously -not- in all but one case that I've seen. I'd see if I could track down that image and link to it, but it's not 100% work safe, even though it doesn't involve nudity; that person did a stellar job of recreating a scene down to a number of tiny flaws that aren't commonly perceived.

That's an enormous part of it: flaws. Humans: we have them. Many of the 'near human' replicas don't in the same way, especially 3D models, sculpts created from them, and other things that are designed to be as symmetrical as possible. While you can't get -perfect- symmetry sculpting by hand, you can still get amazingly close, and closer than is commonly found in nature. Variances in skin coloration are another enormous thing. Forget the farmer's tan, but hold your forearm up against your cheek and look in the mirror, and you'll probably see a difference in the two. Even outside of the arm and inside. Dolls don't have these visual cues, for the most part, even if they are very nicely blushed, blushing usually creates a more 'segmented' appearance than a 'natural skin pigmentation' appearance, and focuses more on false shadow to enhance the appearance of the sculpt by drawing the eye to the details.

So it isn't things like 'oh, it has... strange jointy things... ' that tweak this nerve in my head. They just mark things off in the 'not real' category in my brain immediately.

 

well, this has been a very interestng read! I had never come across the term before, but it is a really good way of explaining it.
while I have never seen the reborns, except in certain tv-shows and then only really short I have something to say in their defense, for some people they offer a bit of comfort, or a way to deal with a loss.. as such they can't scare me at all, since I know where a feeling like that comes from having experienced such a loss.
dolls in general make me feel happy, although the bjd's are easier on me then say, childrens toys. the fact that most bjd are a little older in their sculpt feels nice, it's easier to bond with then a manically grinning doll from a toystore XD
anyway, great topic!

 

I had only come across this term once, when someone posted on a picture of one of my dolls. They merely posted "uncanny valley" and I was puzzled at the time because I had never heard of it.. Learning of it, I have never felt the "uncanny valley" feeling.

I dont think BJDs fall in the valley very well. They are not life size, they are too "adult" like to be considered baby like.. They do stand and can stand for a while if they are strung well and well balanced (they just cant move or stand up on their own.) They do not look dead, where as most baby dolls have a very dead look in their eyes. I would think most doll owners would agree that they "feel" real and alive more so then other things that would be in the valley.

And so to me, BJDs do not fall in the uncanny valley. I think most who would get that feeling from them are not knowledgable enough to feel otherwise. I think most the time those who look at the dolls will first think they are a real person, and then get the uncanny valley feeling when they learn they are not. I think the shock is the only reason someone would feel that way.

 

I finally found some dolls that make me uncomfortable, besides notdoll lab/ secretdoll, and those were just a bit off to me/ not my taste.

A lot of these dolls do it for me. It's almost an uncanny valley reaction- though perhaps not quite. Just click on "gallery" in orange at the bottom of the screen, scroll down, and take a gander. I sort of like some of them, but there's also something that repulses me a little bit, and I'm not sure what. This one, for just one example, stuck out a bit to me. Part of it is that he reminds me of my next door neighbor when I was a kid... just... dead-looking?

A lot of them do this. Anyone else feel similar about these guys? Or is it just my insomnia talking?

 

Scary... o__o;; The more grown up ones don't bother me as much but for example this totally gives me the creeps... I think for me it's the child dolls that I find creepy, since I was little I never wanted that kind of a doll (what with hearing horror stories about them growing green nails and killing you in your sleep...)

 

I think that Reborns and life-like child dolls, especially the ones that are the same size as real children, would set off more alarm bells in our subconsious mind/primal instincts than ones that look like adults because dead babies/children are horrifying. The emotional reaction to a dead child is much stronger than it would be towards an adult, and even if you know that it's just a doll, part of your mind still connects "non-moving human figure" with "death".

BJDs, I think, are a little less scary because, as people have said, they're obviously too small to be humans. But some people will always have strong reactions to such things whether through conditioning or subconsious association. I do think actually having the doll around for a while and being able to play with it makes it a little less scary though. Maybe if kids were able to play with their porcelain dolls without fear of breaking them, they would seem less scary.

 

That's a really cool concept, but I don't get that feeling from BJDs.

I do get it from other forms of dolls though, like porcelain dolls and other dolls you see in the broader doll community. The ones that look like babies always creep me out

 

LOL! if she was so cheeped out by the pale skin, I would tell her to go visit a goth club! LOL
Seriously, I love pale skin in real life, so of coarse I'm going to love pale dolls!

 

Oh, it's not just you. The fact is, many of them actually look freshly dead, and seem to be displayed to suggest that. they remind me of those old pictures they used to take of the dead. I would like to own some of those pics ever since the first time I saw them in a movie. Part of me also want's one of those dolls for the creep factor. I like creep.

Oh, and many of the ones that still look alive, look deathly sick... like the plague sick.

 

This is why to make an appealing CGI character, you have to make it cartoony and unreal. Pixar realized it with the problems they had with realistic humans on the first Toy Story movie. Humans afterwards were done cartoony...even the more real humans in Toy Story 2 had cartooniness and exaggeration. The toy collector guy was an opportunity to come out of the Uncanny Valley from the other side...the realism was so exaggerated in that one scene where you see him sleeping it became funny-gross ala Ren & Stimpy.

However, as a rule CGI characters look best when they are more cartoony. Good examples of this are The Incredibles, the humans in Wall-E, and the characters in Up.

The only time I've found one of my dolls to "creep out" people was when a friend of mine saw me tweaking the old-school neck connector in my Obitsu boy Zetto. This requires taking off the wig and the head cap and futzing around inside the head. Zetto is also more realistic looking than my Volks Dollfie Dream girl Yumiko, and has glass eyes instead of acrylic ones. Those are the kind that give that "follow you around" effect when you look at them from different angles.

Volks Dollfie Dreams are appealing because they are Anime styled and done "cute" instead of "real." If you put realistic looking eyes in them, however, they cease having the cute look and instead look odd. Volks Animetic eyes or similar are the only way to go on them. I find that my Yukino-type, Yumiko, is almost universally liked by people, because she's got those Anime looks that say "relax, this is not a real miniaturized human."

My Mini Dollfie Dream girl Namiko is even less realistic due to the big head and smaller body. She's more "Chibi" in proportions.

Here she is...



Now you're getting into Tetsuwan Atom and Betty Boop terrain. And everyone loves Betty Boop. Including Tezuka-sensei, who basically invented the Japanese Chibi character under influence of the Fleischer Bros. and Disney animation studios.

 

i think the only doll that falls into uncanny valley for me is the dollmore lusion/dahlia. i'm pretty sure that if i saw one of those in person i would have to back away slowly and panic a little. it's not that they're not beautiful, it's that they're the size of - and some have been modded to appear like - children. creepy for me.

otherwise, i have no problem with any other bjds, not even remotely.

 

Some of the celebrity MNMs give me a slight creep-out, precisely because they are too much like a sculptural portrait rather than a doll. For me, a doll must possess a certain degree of stylization, even a "realistic" one.

 

Even without the relationship to dolls, this is an incredibly fascinating concept. Must investigate further....

 

I rarely have the UV reaction to my dolls but I have been working on a MEr character and he was given a different pair of eyes to his defaults and they do the followyou round the room thing and at certain angles he has a creepy expression when being held...

I usualy get the feeiling when seeing the zombie/corpse themed dolls and some of them when the joints are hidden by rags and tattered clothing are definately on the not in my house list. i can appreciate the art behind them from behind the sofa!