Violence and depictions of abuse in the doll world?

Ohhh, no, no, no....ok. My wording was bad, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean that it's unrealistic for anybody to have ever suffered rape/violence/domestic abuse/etc. I've done some minor social work in my past, and I know I haven't even seen a teeny bit of what goes on out there, but I have seen/heard enough to know that all of that stuff DOES happen far more than it ever should. (and even once is too much)

What I meant was more like the exaggerating tendencies that dollblue mentions. I know there are real people that have had some REALLY bad pasts and there are stories of dolls/characters that have tragedy that are well done. What I meant was more like when it gets to the point of people trying to outdo each other with their character's sad pasts, then whining or getting mad if somebody else tries to come up with a worse story. At that point, it no longer feels like people are trying to write a strong backstory for a character, but are just trying to be center of attention.

Silk - I meant "unrealistic" like your first example. The second would be very realistic, IMO. There's a BIG difference in a character dealing with and trying to overcome a traumatic event and in trying to give a character so many bad events that they don't even make sense anymore.

 

I have and will never post a disparaging remark about any person's doll (or photostory), regardless of what they do with it in the name of art or expression.

However, it is a mindset that I personally cannot understand and I won't view this type of stuff.

It can be and is a trigger to anyone who has experienced such events in the past and I am not limiting that to children. I cannot understand why people would choose to dwell on such dark things with something that (to me anyway) is supposed to bring joy and happiness.

Gore, violence, rape, abuse...these don't belong in a world of play, IMHO.

I love anime and video games, but will not watch/play one that is abusive or violent. There are plenty out there that do NOT have those subject themes. These things (like my dolls) are a safe haven from the world we live in and are meant to be joyful.

That is just my opinion, but I think that is what debate is about. Sharing each others' viewpoints.

I can respect the other side, but I cannot understand it.

 

If I know something might be triggering to me, it's my responsibility to avoid that. If wooden spoons are triggering me, I shouldn't watch a movie about wooden spoons, or anything that's likely to have wooden spoons in it. It's unfair to make a stranger like the artist, or someone close to me responsible for my emotional well-being.
Yes, something could be a trigger to someone, somewhere in this world, but I don't think that's a reason to avoid some topics in art. If we did that, we wouldn't be able to show or tell anything. Triggers aren't limited to performed violence alone; anything could be one - even the colour blue. We can't know for sure if something might be painful to someone.

A storyteller could give a powerful message in a harsh story (American History X), or only get off on the blood and gore (Human Centipede). I think it's not the violence shown, but what the owner of the photoshoot wants to achieve with it what's important.

 

I understand that completely. That is why I was coming from the subject from a purely personal viewpoint and why *I* (only myself) choose not to view those subjects. It truly is each person's own responsibility and not that of the artist.

I was simply saying that I cannot comprehend that desire - either to create or to view. I don't think that subject matter is art or entertainment. At least not for me.

I can appreciate the talent behind such, however.

 

I get that. Personally, I can't wrap my head around those stories that seem to dwell on misery, like those exaggerated stories CloakedSchemer mentioned earlier. I just don't understand what's so "zmg-cool" or "edgy" about a traumatic past and choose not to read any of these. For me, they place too much emphasis on the agony and the position of the (everlasting) victim and it almost looks like that's the whole purpose of these stories. I am looking for something different.

 

Whew! My comment turned into a thesis paper, so I deleted it. I will try to compact my thoughts and begin again later.

 

{STILL couldn't make a short comment here} I believe doll depiction affects us, while creating it, sharing it, discussing it, viewing it. At least momentarily, even if only the slightest blip. Does it affect our behavior statistically/officially/according to research studies. OPINION OR RESEARCH BASED? There is some debate out there among the researchers themselves. And even they don't necessarily set aside their own biases when studying things. I have a degree in Sociology/statistics, and whether there is total objectivity in research can be a question in itself.

It is human nature to respond to violence and sexual abuse from an emotional, intuitive, inner place. Very hard to sift out opinion. DOES IT AFFECT REAL HUMANS? Well, duh. [Wait, please don't feel attacked or attack me.] Will it cause someone to decide it looks like fun and begin their plans to molest or attack. The behaviors we are talking about [not depiction, which is the question here] -- but the behavior depicted IS evil by the way. I wouldn't dignify anyone with a response who wants to argue about that.

Can these doll depictions give some strength to the pull of such urges or appetites in some people? If a person has something within them that creates pleasure in, or even an interest for such behavior...I think looking at the images will create a rise in desire. How much would be on a very individual basis, even for the same person, from one day to next. Depending on their struggles and stress with life itself.

Is one person responsible for how another person will be affected by what they do? Not always, but sometimes. If there is any question about that, personally, I would want to proceed cautiously. On one side, I struggle with not letting other people's opinions control me. If someone doesn't like something doesn't mean it is wrong. I have to decide for myself if I want to alter my behavior or expression of myself for the sake of, or to please another person. If another person misuses something I create -- the line can get blurry.

I believe nudity in art can be amazing and beautiful. Tenderness and physical love expressions are wonderful. But I've heard it said, fire in the fireplace is beautiful. Fire in the curtains is something else. I would add, how close to the curtains do you want to set your fire? Especially when you have a fireplace. What do you want to burn in your fire? It's your "stuff" but if you spread a fire in your neighborhood, you are responsible for it. ~In my opinion~ SOOOOooo, when are the depictions in question, "fire"? Are they ever "fire"?

I agree that self righteous behavior is not good. I'm a Christian, if it is OK to say that? -- I noticed that Jesus is most angry with self-righteous religious people. Being judgmental is not a good thing. Having judgment is a good thing. That is a hard line to draw sometimes, especially in our politically correct environment. It is not my wish to be judgmental. I can tell you I don't have my own sexual issues in perfect order. Does anyone?

I've seen some absolutely incredibly talented people choose some very dark depictions with their dolls. I don't care to look at photographs depicting rape or abuse. However, certain images are abstractly dark. I don't know if it is a good thing, but, ~ honestly, for me, some are fascinating. The details are pure genius. I wonder if that comes out of the place that makes humans tend to slow down, not to be safe, but to have a look at an accident. The art is disturbing to me personally, some more than others. Most often, I'd say that is at least part of the point.

Art is very often focused on expressing disturbing things about our world. I know I have used my art to make contact with and try to deal with pain. I do agree that there is an element of coolness that is given to the topics focused on in this question. When I was growing up, I thought smoking a cigarette made me look tough, cool, grown-up? Do you think these depictions sometimes are in that vein of humanness? I think ~ probably. But to glorify these topics or make light of them is unfortunate. The movement of our world as it is today, in general I think is, is...[search for words] apocalyptic? But again, every generation has had reasons to believe this about themselves.

I am glad we have a warning system to give notice that there will be violence and nudity contained, so people have a chance to avoid it if they want to. It is helpful for people with sexual addictions, as well as people who would have triggers of pain and memory of terrible treatment they have lived through. And it is OK for some people to find it distasteful, for whatever reason. Having some navigational control over what you are going to run into here is a good thing.

And last Where does this come from? This is a big world view question.
MY world view: The FALL = where all evil and violence was given birth. Where death came from. Same place. It isn't new. I'm not sure if it is on the rise. It seems [not a thought based on any known stats for me] like it is on the rise. We have to factor in how we can now talk about and depict these subjects more easily than some other generations. It is critically important to give constant reassurance to victims that they are not to blame, and they are NOT somehow less because an evil was done against them. These/we beautiful people who have some experience in this area can benefit from knowing they/we are not alone. I believe in the option of becoming stronger in broken places.

Do the depictions have a place in that process? Getting tougher as some people see it? Or in other ways helpful? I can't answer in brief, to-the-point-sentences. Sorry.

Sexual violence has always been a part of humanity. The ancient writings, the Bible, is full of stories, and many are "depictions" or accounts of it. King David's family had a terrible incidence of incest that tore his family apart. Brother raped a sister, and the account of the consequences rings very true. Whether you believe the Bible has a tie to actual facts and to God, they are writings with details that came from people who at least WROTE about it a very long time ago. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to violence and human cruelty, or struggle with sexuality.

 

I used to be big into fanfiction when I was in high school, and you saw this same sort of thing going on. It almost seemed like a competition to see who could make the character into the biggest angst-muffin. I saw rape, torture, cancer, AIDs, suicide, double suicide, etc. Since the BJD-hobby and fanfiction authors have similar demographics (teenage females), I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for some girls to be fascinated with these subjects. For many teens, it is the time of their lives where everything seems the darkest and most depressing.

Just my .02. I grew out of it, and now seeing those topics discussed so casually makes me uncomfortable.

 

Really, i just never understood how depiction of rape and violence in any form of entertainment is enjoyable to anyone - just don't get it in the doll world, in movies, anywhere. I do think that violence depicted in entertainment (not art) can strip it slowly of the truth, glorify the damage it causes and perpetuate it. It's a very fine line between art and entertainment though, very fine.

 

I would venture that for some people, stories including fictional depictions of rape and violence are interesting in the same way that reading memoirs of non-fictional war survivors and such are, because where the victims are the protagonists, they are often also stories of strength against adversity and the triumph of will.

8^)