Violence and depictions of abuse in the doll world?

They are not real events that have happened to real, alive people with real consequences. They exist only in their fictional depiction and in imagination. To me, that's fantasy and not something connected at all with the real world that we live in.

 

Why should anyone think it's cool? Calling it fictional doesn't mean all the emotions are completely excluded. It's not cool. Most people don't think it's cool. And to claim it's cool, while clearly not understanding why it's bad to think that it's cool is sad and frightening at the same time.

 

I stated that I think that someone who is violent to another person by copying something they see may possibly have mental issues.

Example: Some kids once copied the rape scene from A Clockwork Orange.

You stated that you think that people who express violence and such in photography are trauma victims.

There's quite a big difference, because one person is doing something fictional, and the other is doing something seriously harmful.

 

I was just going off to bed when I read that. Gave me quite a pause...

How about this? Why is it cool? Seriously, why? Fictional still needs to exist in your mind somewhere. It doesn't mean you take out the fictional from your head and toss it aside when you're done reading or writing it. If you said that something well-written, whether it has violence or not, is cool, I'll understand.

But we're talking about violence and abuse being 'cool'. Rape, assault, family members pounding their kids. How is this in any way cool? I don't get it actually. Perhaps I don't understand your question. But in my personal opinion, slapping the cool label on something like violence and abuse in fiction seems a bit too far out of touch with reality.

 

They were, however, created by real live people who have to deal with real live consequence and are read by those who live in the real world. They are in the real world. They are produced for and consumed by the real world. We should not take away from that. These are real people who create and consume these images and stories. These are real people who may be negatively affected or not affected at all. But they are real and they do have real consequences for those who read them whether it be enjoyment or it be influence or imitation.

 

I mainly agree, but at the same time you have to remember that some people have different opinions and will find something 'cool' about the subject of violence/abuse/etc. Plus it's not quite so terrible when it's based around a fictional expression.

 

Not what I'm saying. I didn't say it's sad that people find it cool. I said it's sad and disturbing that people don't understand -why- it would be bad to think it's cool. It's a slight wording difference that has a huge difference in meaning.

 

I think it's just shocking to others and very hard to understand why violence again anything is cool. Unless it a necessary part of character development, and we are going to see a positive moral to the story. I think it's something that will take a lot of time to wrap my head around.

 

Wellhey. Fair enough. XD

I agree with you there, now that I understand more what you mean.

 

Why are zombie movies so popular with the masses? We don't assume that just because someone enjoys a zombie film or finds a zombie slasher 'cool' that they're disturbed...
Why, then, do we say people who find zombie dolls 'cool' might be disturbed or in need of therapy?

EDIT: Sorry, incorrect quotage XD This is a general statement to all

 

Celebare, I'm talking about Real life not Fiction. I have never said that anyone is in need of therapy and I certainly don't think someone with a zombie doll needs any mental help. Personally I find those dolls interesting since I can not so much as pierce my dolls ears.

 

I'm going to clarify myself a bit regarding that 'violence and abuse in fiction is allowed to be cool' bit. I myself sometimes read darker themed manga. Drawing of a lot of violence and such. So, do I think violence is cool? No. Why do I read this type of comics then? Because I find the subject different. I find the subject interesting. I find the style different from other genre. And I like a different pace of reading sometimes.

Having an interest in horror and such is one thing. I'm sure many people can say things like 'oh, zombies! COOL!' But I personally don't say things like 'oh, rape and abuse! Cool!' and the thought that someone might is a wee bit uncomfortable to me. To each their own, though.

 

Sorry V chan, I quoted the wrong post ^^; Didn't mean to drag your statement into mine. Changed my post.

 

I think it's just important to realise that something fictional containing something bad can be entertaining - but you also have to realise that that does not make the bad thing 'cool', but rather how it's portrayed.

Solike.

Saaaay.. Someone gets stabbed in the head by a zombie in a movie. I'd think that was damn cool, but I accept that no-one should be stabbed in the head, that's horrible.

 

Maybe it's because I have always had a very clear grasp of what is real and what it is not, but I've always had trouble wrapping my mind around viewing fictional violence as being just as bad as real violence. I'm an extremely passive, easygoing person who likes peaceful resolution to conflict, but I admit that I love violent movies. I'm with you in not believing that violence in the media is the cause of the violence we see in the world.

I can't think of a single person that I have talked to that has seen 300, to use a recent and popular example, and found the scenes of battle violence to be offensive or emotionally traumatizing. The usual description was "OMFG THAT WAS SO COOL DID YOU SEE THE GUY KILL THE *insert slain enemy here*!!1!!11!" Do I think any of these people would react the same way were they to see a man behead another man in real life? A definite no. I don't think violent doll photostories are any different than 300.

I think there is nothing wrong to owning up to the fact that you enjoy reading or watching movies about things that you're not supposed to like, or do no condone in real life. I don't think people should be held accountable or judged for their fantasies. The only time I think that should happen is if they are actively trying to recreate them in real life and are actually, you know, hurting people.

 

What I don't understand, then, is why it can't be the same way with our dolls...? Just because there's a hole in my doll's head doesn't mean I think that's ok in real life.

 

You stated "I have to mention, I am of the belief that anyone that is seriously influenced by gore, violence, abuse, rape, etc. in media or art has much more important issues to worry about." and that is precisely what I said, that people who have a preoccupation with violence have issues that need to be addressed in therapy.

Many zombie movies are comedies, along with many slasher movies. Jason Goes to Hell is funnier than 90% of comedies released nowadays if you ask me. It's movies more like Se7en that speak of being disturbed, to me. Your zombie dolls don't bother me, and I'd never put them in the same category as violent rape condoning photostories.

 

I definitely agree with the second being more interesting. However, that may be because love is something I find more interesting, particularly when something goes wrong with it, than violence. Or rather, the mental states that could happen intrigue me more than physical. Of course, if I knew why Bob hit Susie, maybe that would catch my attention. I think depth is most important no matter how "controversial" (an odd phrase considering the debate is about how rife violence has become) the base idea is.


I would like to note about the 'conventions' example, that desensitisation is a VERY different matter if a person is experiencing it first-hand and I don't think it can be applied in the same way to dolls or TV. I was brought up allowed to watch pretty much whatever I wanted (Mum sent me to bed when I was... 10 maybe? when A Clockwork Orange was showing on TV.) and I still feel shock when viewing even photographs of REAL violence or its results. (Anyone ever ventured into /b/ on 4chan? It's not a nice place.)


Also, on female fantasies of rape- that is VERY true. I remember that there was a study about sexual fantasies of men and women a couple of years ago. Someone (I think it was my Mum when we were discussing it, and it was certainly just opinion) said that women potentially find the worst thing about actual rape is the fear that something else bad will happen to them- mostly, if their rapist will kill them, not the actual rape itself. (THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT BASED ON FACT, IT'S JUST AN IDEA.)

 

Who said that? I wonder if you are meaning this:

I don't think anyone has said, if you own dolls with violent themes then you are disturbed. But a few people have mentioned that people with an obsession with violence who express it through dolls (NOT just everyone who expresses violence through dolls) are in need of therapy. However on this board we will have no idea if people have a real life issue with violence and abuse, and who is just creating fictional works with a twist.

I hope you are not feeling something personal towards you. I can safely say I have never seen indications of you being disturbed!!

 

I think it is okay, actually. XD I fully support fictional expression, I particularly support dolls modded to be different and express something new and interesting, even if it happens to be violent.

But it does irritate me you get people who post violent photostories and such acting like violence is this beautiful, precious thing and oh, oh no-one can understand their poor angst.

There's a difference between displaying violence and glorifying it.