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What do you think about Hybrids?

Nov 19, 2008

    1. This was mulling in my head since I noticed Dollmore mentioning they didn't want a Dollmore head on other company's bodies when someone was asking about a Kyle Reese head back when I was flippping through the Q&A section before buying my Dollmore Kid.

      And the topic of hybrids also came up in the now locked Elitism thread.

      So I guess I'll start a topic since I guess it makes me curious.

      Are hybrids acceptable? Or ethical... I'm not sure if ethical is the right word for it... the word ethical makes me think of those deep philosophical grey areas where you worry about the cleanliness of your soul... Minus maybe worrying about how the doll maker's feelings are about hybrids, I don't think it's a particularly moral decision. I'm not sure if hybrids are a big enough market chunk to make companies worry about people never buying their heads or bodies or something.

      In some cases, hybriding is a way to cut costs. In some cases, hybriding is more expensive (especially when you count shipping. *_*). Sometimes the company's body just doesn't fit a person's wants or a company's head doesn't fit what a person wants. And some companies only make heads. And it certainly isn't the easy thing to do since you need to worry about resin-matching and what-not.


      So what do you think?
       
    2. to some ppl , hybrids are acceptable. bcuz of the low cost.
      as long as the head can fit with the body and the resin colours goes with it. After the clothes is worn on the body, sometimes other owners dun even recognise that the body is xxx brand, the head is yyy brand, as the clothes covers up the joint parts. unless the other owners take apart the clothes and feel the doll texture.

      but to some bjd owners , they maybe veri particular about the brand . like dod head must go with dod body, dod head cannot be used on AA body etc.

      in my country, some bjd owners that i know does that and dun mind hybrids.
      it is up to indiividuals
       
    3. I don't think it has anything to do with ethics. To me, making a hybrid is a way of customizing your doll. Some people open the eyes, others sand the cheeks and some make a hybrid (and then, you have those who do all the above).

      Practically all my dolls are hybrids. It's because I do not like my dolls to have the same body-sculpt. They have different faces, why then would it not be okay to have a different body as well?
      Some of the original body-sculpts didn't suit the character. Lord Alikaj for instance, is a very slender man and the Elfdoll-bodies didn't have what I was looking for.
      It isn't about lowering cost. Most of the bodies my dolls have are more expensive than the original (darn you Dollstown for making such beautiful sculpts!!).

      I do not have the impression that companies worry about hybrids. Bodies from all companies in the doll-fandom are used. So, maybe Luts isn't selling a body to me, because I want a DoD body, but my neighour prefers Luts over DoD. I think it evens out.
       
      • x 3
    4. I agree with Silk, making a hybrid BJD is not an ethical issue in the same way that knock-off dolls are an ethical issue. In one case you are customising your doll, in another you're stealing the work of another and passing it off as your own. In the case of the hybrid, people are all too happy to admit that the head is from one company and the body is from another, and explain the mods they did to get the doll together, and in the case of the knock-off, the seller won't admit that the doll is a fake!

      It makes me curious that people assume hybrids are a cheaper option because in many cases they're not. You can pay a lot for a head, particularly on the second-hand market, and tracking down the perfect body can also be expensive. Not everyone who creates a hybrid is doing it to get a full doll on the cheap, they want the posing ability offered by one company and the facial aesthetics of another and that kind of quality doesn't come cheap, particularly if you factor in shipping.

      I think some companies would prefer you to buy a full doll from them because it makes them more money in the long run, not because they're worried about 'artistic integrity' or protecting their customers in some way. Personally, I think there are enough WTS threads that show that even if companies won't sell their parts individually, there's enough of a demand for them that people will club together to get the parts they want anyway...and if you think about it, when has any company had the clout to demand that their customers only use their products in a certain way? I doubt someone would accept it if a company said they would not sell televisions and DVD players seperately and you had to buy their products together (loose analogy I know...) What if you only wanted a telly? What if you only needed a DVD player? You'd get together with someone who wanted what you didn't and you'd split the cost...or you'd move on to another company that wasn't so fussy.
       
      • x 1
    5. my hybrid was not cheaper, not easier, took work and time, so its not a case of an easy cheap route for alot of people. its just customization? i like jeongs head, want her to be older, voila = MNF body. i really cant honestly see what's wrong with that. does it lose the company money? no. because if i couldn't have jeong on an MNF body i wouldn't have got jeong at all!
       
    6. Agreed. There are a LOT of companies where I like the heads, but not the bodies, and visa-versa. Both the apperance and price are a factor, although appearance takes priority.
       
    7. How in the heck can taking a plastic doll head and sticking it on another plastic doll body be unethical? *_* That's insane. These are glorified barbies we're talking about.
       
      • x 2
    8. This is mentioned in the OP's post, but it's sort of buried in the middle of a paragraph, so I'd like to emphasize it.

      There are quite a few sculptors who only produce heads, and some of them have been working since fairly early on in the existence of BJDs. Here are just some, the ones I happen to know about:

      Alice in Labyrinth
      Minawadou
      Migidoll
      Ninodoll
      (Until recently) Ricky
      RML

      The logical consequence of this "debate" topic is that those sculptors are doing something unethical by choosing to produce heads alone, instead of full dolls. If making hybrid BJDs is unethical, then it follows that it's unethical for sculptors to make something that must inevitably lead to hybridization.

      By logical extension, they should be stopped from doing this, or at least boycotted and denounced so that they come to understand and repent of their sins.

      Does anyone really believe that?

      Please tell me this topic is intended as satire. :eusa_pray

      Please?
       
      • x 2
    9. @Cynthia in FlintHills The reason this was brought up was due to the closing posts of the now-locked Elitism thread which started to discuss the idea that hybrid dolls were "abominations" and perhaps unethical in some way.

      ...I'm having a hard time getting round the idea that hybrids are looked down on in some way at all. I'm going to have to have a long hard think about how to even tackle my thoughts regarding this before I try and make another post ^^;
       
    10. This topic is one of the silliest I've seen in the debate forum yet. There is nothing that can be called unethical about sticking one company's doll head on another's body. It's just another part of customisation. You can dislike it all you want, but you can't call it unethical.

      The fact of the matter is that we're talking about dolls. People can and will spend their money on whatever they want. If you're going to discriminate against people for that, then perhaps you'd better look at your own priorities, because thats pretty judgmental, petty and elitist.

      This post wasn't directed at you OP, I was just pretty shocked at some of the comments I read in the other thread, and I think the fact that this topic even exists is pretty disgusting.
       
    11. I see no problem. My Kiss has a wonderfully masculine, strong body... that doesn't suit the girly man he's meant to be. He's going to get a new body. He'll be a hybrid, because his body is plain wrong. It's like painting a new face on them, it's just making the doll right.
       
    12. I can't think of anything more intelligent to say than, 'lol wat'.
       
    13. While i don't find hybrids unethical, i'm worried about how the aformentioned elitists would feel about certain hybrids. I understand fully that some companies only produce heads for the purpose of hybrids, and i dont see why anyone would have a problem with one of those heads on any body at all, but i'm more personally worried about my own hyrbid girl.
      Cynthia in flinthills: I think what is being pointed out isnt necessarially those sorts of hybrids, but more like having a hybrid of a head from one company who produces and offers their own bodies on a different companies body.

      For example, my hybrid is a volks school b on a luts senior delf body. I chose the hybrid cause i really dont like volks bodies, and i'm generally not a volks fan but i love this head and she needed a body. Cost-wise, it wasnt much different, less than a hundred, i think. I just like the general look of the sdf girl body better than volks. Plus i'm a sucker for double joints. The match was perfect, and the head fit, and i love the body, so it was a perfect choice for me. (if the head fits, wear it? ^^;; )

      My concern--and i hope i'm not overstepping the topic or anything, but i do feel its quite related--is what'll happen if i take her somewhere. Meets aren't a problem for me, everyone in my area is really nice and awesome, and there are hybrids abound, but what if i wanted to go to another dolpa? Its at least fairly understandable if the company is a little bit off with me bringing her in, but what about the other dolpa-goers in that case? I'm probably paranoid--i hope i'm being paranoid--but i just feel like if i took her in i'd get people telling me i had no right to be there or something because im disgracing the company or something by having a hybrid. I don't even want to know what it'd be like to explain to one of the actual volks people why she's on a different body ^^;; I just don't think thats quite fair, y'know?

      i hope this wasnt too rambly ^^;;
       
    14. *Runs away from thread with his hybrids*

      Originally Posted by usagi665 [​IMG]
      You don't have to be opposed to the aesthetics of a hybrid, you can dislike it purely on "ethical" grounds. Maybe there are some that are visually appealing because they're owned by a good artist, but that doesn't mean you agree with what they did in the first place.

      It's like saying you can't hate a fake Chanel bag just because it looks nice.








       
    15. I'm all 'lol' at this thread at the moment....

      Yet at the same time I would like to go to a dolpa with my School C, who is on a Dollmore boy body. Not cause I can't afford a volks body (I paid $400 for the fucking head D: ) but because It wasn't right for his character... Volks doesn't do slim. But it annoys me to know I wouldn't be able to go to a dolpa cause he is on another body.

      Yeah, I love hybrids, I have 3 dolls that will be hybrids, my Elijah (no body to buy with) and my Miho (again the same) and my SchC.

      But hey if people want to be close minded bigots then let them. No skin off my back D:
       

    16. You'd be surprised, I think I remember hearing that Hypermaniac used to refuse to sell again to anyone that sold on their dolls? But in the current market especially, there are so many up and coming companies that are as obliging as possible in order to get a hold on sales, that if any established companies were being a bit.. divaish, they've probably rethought things by now.

      I think, as the OP suggested, that rather than being a question of ethics it's more about the companies 'feelings' or whether you're treading on their toes, and that's really up to the company. On the one hand, you have companies like AOD who actively try to find out what resins their dolls match up with and offer several different resin tones because their dolls are so popular as hybrids, and most companies offer heads and bodies seperately by now, which presumably is for the convenience of people looking to make hybrids.

      I think it'd be a bit overly sensitive if any doll manufacturer was hurt that people wanted to buy part but not all of their doll. I mean, you can't please everyone, and their sales will be higher if they can sell a doll to one person, a body to another, etc, than if they flat out refuse to sell anything except a full doll.
       
      • x 1

    17. Was that from the other thread? Daaaamn. No, it's really not like saying you can't hate a fake designer bag because it looks nice, it's like saying you can't hate someone for wearing a bag from one designer and shoes from another! Hybrids are a totally different thing from knock-offs of someone elses work. They're parts from two legitimate companies that each worked hard on creating something beautiful and unique. And maybe another argument that could be made for hybrids is that Company A put more effort into their heads and Company B into their body sculpt, so by making a hybrid you're showing off the best aspects of both companies.
       
    18. I do it all the time with my OTs, one guy just for a hair color only one company makes, others are because I put different head sculpts on a body I like. 2 companies make nice bods but boring heads. If I owned a company and people did it I'd be happy I was selling the parts they were using then I'd look in to why and try to come out with a product to fix it.

      One of my hybrids was bought at the Volks store in LA, the staff was rather interested in the head and happy I had chosen 'the best' for his body. Not needing a head I had more money for doll shoes. :)
       
    19. Why? If people are that petty, why give them a second thought?

      At the end of the day, dolls are products. I paid (Y) company for (X) doll head: therefore, the head is now my property. I can do what I like with it. If the company doesn't like it, I'm going to roll my eyes. Would they have preferred it if I hadn't purchased one of their products at all, just because I didn't like their body sculpts?

      In a lot of businesses, if a customer doesn't want to buy a product, it makes good sense to find out why, rather than act snotty towards the customer because they don't appreciate your speshul artwork. For the love of Jimbob, not everyone is going to like the same things.

      Myself, I have my own preferences 1/3-scale regarding bodies:
      It has to be adult-looking and fairly realistic.
      It has to pose well and/or be double-jointed.
      It has to be easily available, and come from a company I trust.
      It has to have a competitive price. (No more than $400 for the body by itself, at most.) There has only ever been one doll I've been willing to spend more than $600 on (Feeple Ashley... alright, maybe Cali, too. And Iplehouse Akando. Okay, when I said one, I lied.), and that's because their bodies seem to be engineered really well.

      If a company's bodies doesn't fit my preferences, then that's just tough. No-one's entitled to my money.
       
      • x 2

    20. Click the blue thingy next to the username D: It'll take you back to the post lul...

      I find it's a pretty bad comparison myself... I would say it's like like using another brand's shoulder strap and stitching it onto a chanel bag... You just really altering pieces and mixing parts to come up with a pleasing, unique product :3