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What if seller on MP refused to sell doll because of planned customization?

Jul 18, 2015

    1. I just had a strange private conversation with a person on the MP who refused to sell their doll to me most likely because I wanted to experiment and use oil paint to stain the resin.

      The seller seemed to have a problem with that because she came back to me by saying she couldn't do that and that "oil paints and pastels would ruin the doll" and "it even says so on DoA." I responded by saying I had started a thread about oil paints and that it sounded like no one has tried them yet but that I believed they could work and the results could be amazing. I then asked what she would be willing to let the doll go for. She responded "No thanks."

      I gave her a chance to explain why she wouldn't negotiate with me and asked her if it was because I wanted to try oil paints. She said she would "no longer comment on the matter." I said I'd be willing to pay full price for the doll and asked if that was okay with her but I haven't received any response.

      So my question to people here is this - Would you refuse to sell someone a doll if you didn't approve of their planned customization? I think it brings up a good point for debate here on DoA and I'd be interested in learning what everyone's thoughts are.

      For me one of the strengths of the DoA forum is the sharing of ideas and learning from each other's experimentations and experiences. Afterall the whole nature of BJDs is about custimization and personal vision in every way. So to have someone refuse to sell a doll because of what another may want to do with it doesn't sit well with me. What if I'd had wanted to do a full body tattoo? Or mod the head to give it horns? Or dress it as a Amazon from a planet in another galaxy? I'd LOVE to follow a doll I sold if the buyer had such plans for it. And I'd have wanted to see what would happen if my buyer wanted to try oil paints.

      In hindsight, I should never have mentioned that I wanted to try oil paints on this doll. But then should we have to censor ourselves in order to buy a doll on such a creative forum?

      I understand that people become super attached to their dolls but if you list it for sale on a marketplace in a community known for its creativity then I feel you should be willing to sell the doll to someone who may have different ideas than your own.
    2. I don't care what someone does with a doll I have sold to them once I have received the money for it, they have received the doll, and the transaction is over. If you want to ruin it, that's your prerogative and your money lost.

      However, on the flip side, sellers do have the right to refuse a sale to anyone for any reason they want and will not be in violation of any marketplace rules if money has not exchanged hands. You can't make them agree to sell you the doll, and you've prob dodged a bullet because I can't imagine that transaction going smoothly.
      • x 1
    3. Yeah, actually you made a good point. I didn't think about that!
    4. Personally I find this attitude strange. If you sell the doll it no longer belongs to you and you have no say in what happens to it.

      I guess it could be an issue of the buyer damages the doll then sells the doll on with undisclosed damage and blames you. .. although it's the current sellers responsibility this can happen. I once sold a doll for a 50%discount due to damage, the buyer sold it on full price and when their customer complained they told them I had undisclosed the damage and I ended up on bad dolly deals just because someone decided to flip a profit off my honest pricing and their buyer never questioned that they would sell a doll without knowing the condition of it.
    5. There's one doll I had, that, if I had known what the new owner would do to it, I probably would not have sold it to them. It was mostly because I personally didn't like what they did and because the doll had been very dear to me before. And also because it was a pretty rare limited head.
      So from a seller's point of view, I definitely understand that someone would want to refuse a sale, because it would taint the memory they have of that doll. I mean, in this case it could be the doll had meant a lot and they now see it as being discarded for experiments. Or maybe they feel they'd rather sell the doll to someone who would keep it in the state it is now.
      I was going to say that I wouldn't turn down a sale if someone told me they were going to experiment on "my" doll. But I'm honestly not sure if I wouldn't. I think that as long as I have the doll in my possession it would be weird to know what the buyer wants to do with it. I'd rather just not know!
      On the other hand, money is money, so, ya know.

      I think in this case the major red flag for the seller must have been the oil paints. The other mods you have mentioned are pretty much reversible. Staining from oils, probably not so much! Oil paints and any product containing oil is such a big no no in this hobby. But you're obviously not a newbie, so it's not like you're going to give it a sharpie faceup either lol.

      For me personally, I would feel better if the buyer was not entirely new to the hobby (if they had told me they want to do extensive mods and such), but in the end I don't think I would actually refuse to sell, because I wouldn't want to deal with the fallout arguing that would follow.
    6. It doesn't bother me what someone does to my doll after it leaves my house. I like it when my buyers tell me what they will be doing with the doll, even if I hadn't thought of doing it when it was mine. On another note Immortality of Soul just used oil paints on their new Tauros sculpt and it looks pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxn0tioCXY.
    7. Hm, personally, I would consider selling a doll to mean that I no longer had any say in what the new owner intended to do with that doll. I do understand that we become very emotionally attached to our dolls in this hobby (I know I am to mine!), but I think selling a doll would be where I would have to draw the line and consider that doll to no longer pertain to me.

      I do also agree that the experiments of others is VERY beneficial to the hobby as a whole, so I love following new ways that people have come up with to change their dolls and new materials they have used. This collective information breeds creativity and also aids fellow hobbyists from falling in an unintended pitfall that could damage their doll. So kudos to everyone who dares to trek into new forms of modification!
      Also, thank you so much for posting that video, AmberLeigh! I loved watching it.

      In terms of oil paints...I think there is also the permanence of the modification to consider. In most cases, we tend to want our modifications to be temporary (or reversible) in this hobby. That way the dolls remain an endless palette for our new ideas. But, being in the middle of a rather intense and detailed customization myself, I can understand how there are some instances where we would want to make a modification as permanent as possible. Either because we have put SO MUCH work into the customization and wish it to be permanent, or even just for durability issues (say keeping color in the joints of a doll, for example). In that instance, I think oil paints would be a very interesting solution and staining might even be something desirable rather than anathema.
    8. Honestly you have the right to refuse whoever for whatever. Personally I think it's a little strange. I mean if you don't want the doll anymore then what does it matter what the new owner does? Or maybe for the (not quite) seller these dolls are art and you'd be "ruining it" with oil paints? I've noticed the huge divide; One side is "BJDs are art! How dare you!" and the other is "OMG! It's just a doll to do with as you please."
    9. Another possibility is that the idea of the doll being damaged made the seller realized she didn't want to give it up after all. I had feelers out to sell a doll once and the moment I heard someone mention wiping her face, my gut clenched up. I realized I did not actually want to sell her as the thought of her being changed upset me.

      By the by, I have purchased a "project doll" that had been painted with oils. I, very literally, had to sand it off. So, yeah, it has been done and it does not work, first hand account.
    10. Except if you do want a permanent stain which is what I'm after then sanding off the oil isn't a problem. It sounds like your "does not work" experience is exactly what i'm after! Lol.

      The video is awesome, AmberLeigh. Thank you for posting the link. What I saw is exactly how I pictured oils to work. The reason I want the oil to be permanent is to take away an orange cast in an original tan resin.

      Now the question I have is if, after sealing the sculpt with a matte finish, you can still give a doll a traditional face up using pastels, watercolor and acrylic, etc. And then I'd like to know if you can remove a face up without altering the oil stained resin.

      That cute Bobobie doll could've been a real asset to everyone.
    11. Sometimes I have dolls that I put on the market because they are gathering dust and I want them to go to a home where they will be appreciated and admired in a way that I don't have time for. In these instances the idea of someone turning them into a project doll and possibly ruining them beyond repair would give me that gut reaction. I still like the doll, I just don't need it in my collection. That doesn't mean I want it destroyed though :(
    12. Interesting, I guess the attachment for that doll is still there for the seller. When I sell something, that means I have no feelings for that thing and I just want it out of the house. The buyer can burn it or tear it to pieces, it's their's to do as they please once the money exchanges hands.
    13. I would not refuse to sell the doll to them if they were the only person contacting me for it because once I'm set on selling a doll I want it out and I want the money. But I would definitely feel bad after.

      I know it's just plastic, but I still have some odd attachment like a parent's whose kid is moving out of the house. I don't think any parents want their child to stay home FOREVER, but obviously they want their kid to be safe and happy once they move out. so similarly I want the doll to be loved and in good condition.
    14. I know that in some cases the person has no choice but to sell their doll. Whether it be financial trouble or whatever. So in some cases they may still be really attached to the doll. However, if I was just selling a doll to get rid of it, I wouldn't care if you threw the doll away, I got my money you got your doll, what you do with it is up to you. I think it'd be cool to see mods on it personally.
    15. I might be in the minority, but I actually do care to some extent as to what happens to my dolls after I sell them. I would prefer that they go to a good home where they would be taken care of, rather than end up being someone's "experiment" doll. I do get the other point; I have their money and therefore what happens to the doll after that should be none of my concern, but I do have preferences.

      That being said, communication over the internet, especially over short PM messages, can lead to some misunderstandings. The work "experiment" in itself has different meanings to different people. As in, "I plan on using this doll as an experiment with oil paints" to me sort of sounds like, "I am going to do something to this doll that may cause irrevocable damage and end up either re-selling the doll if I fail or it may end up in the garbage" , although I am sure you didn't mean it that way at all. Using the word "experiment" also conveys a certain degree of non-caring as to what the end result may be to the doll.

      So, I think in this instance, if I felt the doll was going to be neglected or damaged, I would also think twice about selling a doll to such a person. I am all for customization and wonderful results do occur, so don't misunderstand me on that end. I think it just may have been an issue in communication.
    16. I've sold a good few dolls over the years and I rarely ever get to see what the new owner does with them, which is disappointing for me! I don't think I could ever refuse to sell a doll based on what the new owner has planned for them, as that is entirely up to them :) If I had any kind of gut reaction to a buyers plans though I'd know for sure that I shouldn't be selling the doll at all!
    17. Here's another take on things --

      As a buyer, it's also hard to find a doll you like, that's affordable, that will let you move on with your plans only to find that the seller won't sell. It's especially frustrating when you see that they've bumped the thread several times so you know they are interested in moving the doll along. It makes you feel like you and your aesthetics are being judged without bothering to ask more about the buyer's intention.
    18. While I can see being annoyed having the transaction canceled after agreeing to a price, and paying, before? Honestly I don't really care why the seller wouldn't want to sell to me. Whether they don't like what I plan to do with the doll, don't like my offer, don't want to sell after all, or just don't like me personally, it's just not a big deal imo. They have the right to sell/or not to whoever they want to. I would just move on.

      That said, personally when I sell an item, it's because I don't want it. So the buyer can do whatever they want, once i get my cash.
    19. I understand not wanting to sell your doll to someone who will do something you don't like to it. These dolls are valuable, whether I love the doll I'm selling or not, there is a value for it, and I can see myself not wanting to sell it to someone who won't appreciate or maintain its value (and some don't care what happens to the doll once it's out of their hands). The idea of "experimenting with oil paints" would make many doll owners just as anxious as a Sharpie face-up. Whether the oil painting turns out well or not, the idea of it ruining a valuable doll is enough, I think, to turn down a buyer. The seller doesn't know what the outcome of the experimenting would be, after all. The rejected buyer can always look for another doll.

      That said, that oil painted IOS skull looks amazing. I wonder if there would be any long term damage to the resin? Or how durable it is? I also noticed it looks glossy, I wonder if it can be made matte... I don't imagine you could use MSC over an oil based product.
    20. To be fair, a seller does have the right to refuse a sale for any reason they see fit, even if it's frustrating to you as the buyer.

      As a counterpoint to that, I think any regrets about what might happen to the doll when it moves to the new owner would suggest to me as a seller that maybe I don't really want to sell that doll after all. (I felt a little sad when I discovered a doll I sold many years ago had been resold and split up, honestly, though at the same time I don't really wish I had her back, either.)

      For me, personally, once I sell something, it's out of my hands. At most, I'll be curious what happens to it in the future! And for me, when I buy something, it's now mine and I don't feel any need to justify any decisions for what I do with it to the former owner. Currently, I own four dolls that came to me second-hand and have undergone (or about to undergo) some kind of mod on arrival here. One was just a body, and I'm sure the original owner has no idea that it's being modded; one was expected to be modded when sent out; one, the owner's actually very curious to see what the result is; and the last was from an owner who left the hobby*.

      This is definitely a hobby that thrives on experimentation, and there's always going to be another opportunity or avenue for the experiment. I've seen plenty of "spare parts" out for sale on the marketplace, which are always great for experimentation!

      (*Disclosure: I felt a little bad doing the mods on this one, since from the pictures I've found, I can see the doll was quite precious to the original owner before she left the hobby. But at the same time, the doll is now mine, and as a result of the work I've done, has in turn become precious to me, as well as unrecognizable as the same doll.)