What would Freud say?

Got the hubby's medical bills the otherday, I'm ready to quit being an adult and go back to infancy with my dolls

I DO have Mommy issues! She's dead and can't be having fun with me and my dolls!

 

It is generally agreed that Freud's work is outdated and as Amphetamine quite nicelyput: his sample pool had no variation. I'm personally not a huge fan of Freud's psychoanalysis methods and tend to find all his interpretations too overtly sexual. So, if we are to analyze ourselves in Freudian thinking I believe he would say that the reasons we like dolls is because:

1. We all had negative childhoods where we had to grow up to quickly
2. We like the power we have over these beings
3. We are Paedeophiles
4. They are a fetish (as Phanuel said)
5. self-infantalisation (such as Lolita)

Generally it's not very nice and makes us all out to be pretty pathetic. I think that you really have to analyse people individual as we all have very different reasons and life histories that bring us to where we are right now. I personally think my reasons are that I am quite childish and didn't want to grow up. Being a child is often a safe environment and trusting which is why many people regress to that stage during a "break-down" for example.

I'm also artistic, so the customisation and photography of them really appeals. I just generally believe I like them, just because I do

 

I've considered this for years before I even got into dolls, as ashamed as I am to admit it, before I got into dolls that is what I thought of adult doll collectors. That they were all people who didn't want to grow up, had mommy issues, money/power issues (like collecting made them feel supioror to others because they had a big, expensive collection of something), couldn't have children, were depressed or else were sexually abused at some point, most likely in their childhood. And who could forget peer pressure/trends? I've seen alot of people get into dolls because their friends got one and then they suddenly decided they wanted one too, no real other reason for that except they'd feel left out without one.

But as I realized when I got into them, that isn't always the case. I got into them solely for photography, not even really for the dolls themselves, originally. I need a model, I cannot afford to hire a model, I know no one who would model for me. Then I ran across BJDs - they pose so wonderfully my creativity just flowed as I learned more and more about them, and of course just had to have one of my own for my original hobby!

That being said, I almost wonder if my love of MSDs and Yos is because when I was young I was homeschooled and we moved 3 or 4 times a year, so I never got to interact with many children, I only got to play with kids next door, who were usually 3 years or so younger than myself. I didn't start getting to play with kids my own age until about 14 years old.

My brother keeps asking if I like the child-like dolls because I want to use them to simulate interaction between children the way we never got to or something. And after realizing that my first doll I have planned looks almost exactly like my best friend ever when we were 10, I'm starting to wonder myself. It's going to be really weird if I suddenly start using my two planned MSDs to simulate her and me, then the other MSD as my brother or something. If that ends up being the case, I'll be sure to head back here and let you know rofl.

:EDIT: And originally I had no intention of really 'playing' with the dolls, I didn't intend for them to have personalities, to interact or even have names! But then I read a bunch of people's photostories and thought: 'Huh, that looks like fun. I might give that a try.' But really, anything that can be said about a doll collector can also be said about a writer and in most cases, a singer or actor too. :EDIT:

 

Hmmm.....amateur psycho-interpretive analysis using the broad jumping off point of pondering what Freud would say about asian ball-jointed doll collectors....

One hopes that the assumptions being put forth in this thread in regards to what Freud would actually think about modern-day collectors of abjd are a poke at the dead analyst and not self-examination or self-analysis, or gods forbid, a general blanketing of the subconscious motivations of all of us.

For me, from a Jungian point of view, there is a symbolic interaction between collector and doll in this hobby. The idea that objects can project a "soul spark" which in its turn speaks to the journey of the collector, perhaps even acting as guide, is far more palatable an interpretation than....uh, paedophilia. YMMV.

 

Zagzagael- I'm certainly not giving a sweeping generalisation of the BJD collectors being "paedeophiles"! I frankly think the idea is absurd- but the OP wantied us to analyse BJD collectors using Freudian interpretations and considering his sexual deviancy and obsession with it: I think he would happily throw some of us under that blanket: either as suffering with it, but more likely past victims of it. YMMV (I had to look that up hehe

 

I have a lot of the more stylized sculpts, and I don't think of them as looking particularly childlike. They could be made to look like children more easily than some of the ultra realistic dolls out there (I find stylized dolls to be more flexible in terms of assigning ages), but I don't look at them and think "oh, that doll looks like a kid". However, I do know a few hobbyists that do see them more in that way. It's really one of the many things that is up to personal interpretation.

Which is the issue behind trying to analyze the hobby in this way. All hobbyists are different, and many of us have different reasons for being here. My dolls are very special to me--far more than mere chunks of plastic. But...that's not because I secretly long to nurture a child. I don't and never have wanted kids. Freud could say a lot of things about my dolls and doll related activities I'm sure, but I doubt he'd come any where close to the truth which is in fact: that they capture my imagination and inspire me. They tap into all my creative impulses. I realize that's not nearly as interesting as being a lonely single woman unable to grow up and subconsciously longing for a child, but there you have it

 

I completely agree!
Being an artist of many mediums and subject matters, I see ART dolls as yet another form of expression. The great thing about BJDs (and another artist's doll I collect and photograph) is that the palet changes! I can simply change the clothes, wig, eyes...and setting and I create a whole new image!
I assure you...there is nothing deviant or remotely Freudian about it. I'm a creator. Dolls are my medium.

 

I'm sure he'd all say we're all sexually repressed and are hiding some kind of deep dark perversion.

I loved everyones answer to this thread. Doll nerds are so smart.

 

The doll and its role in Freudian analysis makes up a big chunk of Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex. I read it about 25 years ago, so please forgive if I have it a bit scrambled, but (my understanding of) her analysis takes a different tack, that the doll is a penis substitute for those lacking. (It always comes down to the cigar, in Frued, it seems )The adoption of the doll in childhood as penis-analogy causes a child, through doll play to invest identity in the concept of 'other' - outside the body, be it physical, emotional, or societal.

::shrugs:: it's kind of an interesting idea - not sure if it's 'nail on the head' truth or anything, but there's lots of food for thinks that can be extrapolated from the concept.

Another odd thot: Sigmund Freud would make a hilarious subject for a Minimee!

Though much of what Freud proposed has been found to be -at best- terribly biased if not downright false, his work did take mental health issues out of the hands of exorcists and into serious consideration as medical conditions, worthy of rational discussion and treatment.
Besides, where would we be without the 'Freudian slip'?

 

Hmmm... might repeat some things, but I'm just kind of typing what I think of while I'm typing. Of course I mean no offense to anyone and this isn't my point of view, just answering an interesting question. Besides, I always feel like therapists/psychologists are morons for the most part, so even I disagree with a lot of the stuff here. After all, not every little things a person does has some deep sexual/childhood tragedy behind it.

-Control or self image issues. Since people don't choose their genetics, people feel the need to customize their doll to realize the hair/body/face/eyes, etc that they wish they could have or wear the clothes they wish they could wear.

-An outlet. Too many things in a person's head can lead them to search for an outlet. A lot of hobbies are outlets. They are outlets for emotions, wishes, or that creativity that clutters up your head. They relieve stress, too. Or maybe there's too many character. Some people draw, others right, other act... and if you can't do that, dolls get them out of your head.

-Independence issues. Maybe a person needs something that is only theirs in order to separate themselves from family/spouses, etc... By having something that is only theirs and doesn't have to be shared they feel more independent or fulfilled.

-Maternal instinct. Perhaps we just want to brush hair, make pretty clothes, and otherwise dote on something, anything. Too young to have a kid or kids have grown up and moved out... or maybe not in a relationship to have a kid or in a financial situation to raise a kid. You can get out all that swooning and doting without actually requiring a child.

-A need to be different or to belong to a group. Maybe someone gets a doll to be 'different' or 'unique' because they don't want to be 'normal'. They do it stand out, to be known even if it is as the 'crazy doll lady/guy'. Because then at least people see them. Some people like being different so they can go to someone else and say how horrible their being treated because of what they love and how unfair the discrimination is to get pity. Maybe they get dolls just to be a part of the doll hobbyist group. If they get a pretty doll, someone will talk to them. They'll at least belong somewhere.

-A need to be praised. If they get a pretty doll, if they can do pretty face-ups... maybe someone will tell them that they are worth something. Some people just like being praised and some people feel like they need to be seen and to be praised.

 

This is really interesting!

Well, they couldn't pull the "replacement" theory on me since I'm perfectly capable of modifying my own appearance, had a reasonably enjoyable childhood, and have never shown interest in children. I've also always been mature myself and tend to like serious dolls in the more mature range. Even my child doll doesn't reflect any infantile tendencies.
So the depression reason would probably be used on me.

Ironically, I have no interest in my dolls when I am depressed. I just like beautiful things, I'm also fascinated by the engineering of the doll's bodies, and looooooove to customize. Plus it's an excuse to sew, lol. all of that's too normal for a psychologist to consider though. :P

 

Freud and his Oedipus/Electra complex, right? lol

Well, I always thought it was partially because BJDs kind of look like children. I have a 1 year old sister and she's got the big head, big deep eyes, thick eyelashes and cute little face of a BJD, so I always thought that the love for BJDs partially came from the subconscious maternal instinct to love whatever looks like our young.

 

Now this theory I love. I do believe that socially we as humans strive to be part of a tribe. You find that those who cannot find similar minded souls feel very lost in the world. Sometimes, people who are outcast in society create their own boundaries, hierachies and norms in order to belong (for example the tragic gang culture at the moment is all beause of children lost in a world they feel they don't belong. By building up a norm - ie having guns and shooting people- gives them something to look to. It's terrible but true).

It is possible that we have these dolls and our love of them is built more stronly because we become part of a world (such as the forum hereon doa) where it is the norm and we know where we stand within it. It has rules, boundaries, a hierarchy and we are like minded but with enough give to at some of our own self into it.

However, this is more socialology than psychology

I am loving this topic- everyone is so very intelligent.

 

Just speaking for myself here...

Somebody mentioned Peter Pan syndrome. I had that way back when I was 11 years old. I remember back in 5th grade, everything changed, and everybody grew up in a flash. I was happy with the way I was, so I didn't change. I even had a discussion about this with my mom (oh here we go, mother issues), and she encouraged me to not strive to be adult-like in a hurry like everybody else was. Now that I'm an adult, I pretty much just use my adult responsibilities to enable my free time to be completely immature time. While this has influenced my interest in dolls, I think it's hardly a main reason behind it.

Somebody else mentioned a desire to be something they weren't. I went on and off a few times over my childhood and briefly in adolescence with being unsatisfied as male. I remember learning in 2nd grade about how there's this one part of the world where boys wear dresses until they're 4 years old. Outwardly, I was like "YUCK!" Inwardly, I felt a kind of longing because I kind of liked the idea of wearing a dress. Now that I've got dolls, I get to play with dresses and other womens' clothes. I really like the clothes

What I think Freud would have had a hard time describing is a penis envy sort of scenario for me. I don't entirely wish I had a vagina, but I totally wouldn't mind being a woman if the planets aligned that way one day. Dolly time is kind of like girl time for me. I turn the sweetness way up and the masculinity way down. I guess you could say I live being female through my dolls. I don't wear pretty clothes. I don't have a feminine body. But my dolls can do that. That's why I don't have any male dolls. I get enough of being male when I'm not doing doll stuff. I need a change sometimes!

Pedophilia? Not me. I like my dolls to be at least mid-teen-looking. The more around 20, the better. That's when femininity kicks in, and that's what I like to admire. I might not even get an SD10. I'd prefer to get SD16 dolls, but I'll probably settle for an SD13. I do like lolita fashion, though. It's so pretty!

Somebody also mentioned maternal instinct. I guess I feel motherly when I dress and pose my dolls and take pictures of them. It's such a warm feeling But going back to Peter Pan, I don't think I'd have the patience to raise a girl of my own, so I only desire to experience being a mother in a scenario where I don't have all the responsibilities of it. I can just put away my dolls when I'm done with them. I can't do that with a human being. And this is kind of a dichotomy with the fact that I don't like young-looking dolls, but what can I say? I'm a complex individual.

 

Whatever Freud would say about it wouldn't interest me in the slightest, because he had a very lopsided and incomplete understanding of psychology. He was closing in on some truths, but didn't ever quite figure it out. A sad, sick man.

Like some others, I'd have been much more interested to hear Jung's view on it.

This. *sigh* I wish there were some way to easily convince people that depression does not equal "sadness" but rather ineffective functioning of brain chemistry. It basically grinds you to a halt, including removing desire to do pretty much anything that usually gives you satisfaction. Antidepressants aren't "happy pills." Yes, I know what I'm talking about from way too much personal experience.

When I'm doing well? THAT's when I have a ball with the dolls.

Personally? I collect them because I like them and because I can. I could be an old woman wearing purple, or however that poem goes. But I collect dolls




GREAT thread topic, btw. What an interesting bunch of ideas

 

I honestly don't know or care what Freud would say. Though I wouldn't mind hearing Jung's opinion.

My own thoughts on the matter would lean towards a rather dull analysis that I am predisposed to like customizable dolls based on the way my brain processes the world around me. I am a tactile learner, so I like to have things I can manipulate and touch. I am a visual thinker, so I work with images better than words. Add these two factors to the fact that I like to tell stories (which I think is a fairly common human experience), and having versions of my characters that I can see, touch, and move makes a lot of sense.

 

Personally, I've never liked Freud much... I like the cognitive-behavioural side of things more. But if this were an exam question (I wish!), this is the way I'd answer it.

Dolls are a way of expressing our unconscious. During the superego-libido conflict, unacceptable feelings and thoughts are repressed to our subconscious, and the remaining surface to the conscious level and become at least part of our ego personality. As dolls are inanimate and cannot threaten social stigmatisation to the person, they are a safe way of expressing these unacceptable thoughts and feelings. For example, a person who secretly fantasizes about having a homosexual relationship, and where this is barred by his/her superego, therefore repressed to the subconscious, etc. may project these fantasies to thier dolls and make them a gay couple.

Another Freudian explanation is that playing with dolls is simply a manifestation of the defence mechanism, regression. Faced with ego threats, people (according to Freud) have automatic psychological defence mechanisms to avoid a complete breakdown, for example they curl up with a comforter, hug a doll and suck their thumbs. This brings their subconscious back to a childhood state where thier parents sheltered and provided for them, therefore eliciting a feeling of safeness.

Obviously, there is more... but like I said, I don't like Freud, and besides there are a plethora of cons about this approach that just makes cog-behav. psychologists throw up their hands in disgust. So maybe I'll leave the rest to other psychologists on the forum...