What would Freud say?

My desire to own a male doll probably stems from a desire to 'own', or conquer, my desire to be male.

Since I was a child, I've wanted to be a boy- I've sublimated the desire over the years and am learning to be content with the body I was born in, but I'm fairly sure that was why I was initially so enticed by the concept of buying a male ball-jointed doll.
As for the gender problems, I think that comes from being picked on when I was little- it was mostly boys who hit me and said mean things to me, and because I was afraid of them I grew to view them as superior. Being male to me also means society expecting less of you physically. I'm not sure if this is a realistic view or not, but mostly I was picked on for being ugly and fat, and I feel that my appearance wouldn't have mattered so much if I'd been born male.

The insecurity that's stuck with me also gives me the desire to be better than I am so as to be able to respect / like myself, and if I view men as superior, then of course I'd want to be one.

Um, anyway.
Interesting thread.

 

I don't have any dolls yet, so I guess I can't completely relate to those who do have dolls. But if I'd have to put my opinion on it, I definitely think it has something to do with the need to nurture something, especially once deep feelings end up surrounding it. A doll isn't like a dog or a fish - they don't die and they don't grow old, they don't get diseases or end up going blind or deaf. They're something that *As long as they're taken care of* can be around longer than yourself and I think there's something comforting in that - knowing that you don't have to bury your doll...unless maybe it gets chewed by a dog or something o.o;

They're also very different from friends, and family, and lovers; they can't argue against you and they can't emotionally leave you. They don't spite you *Maybe they do by refusing to be a good model, I dunno* but they definitely don't just pack up there bags and abandon you.

Dolls are...in a nutshell...something that can theoretically be with you forever ^^ And who doesn't want to keep something around for as long as they can, right?

 

This is an interesting thread. I'll jump in, a bit late perhaps... Reading these posts, I found I was thinking about Jung, and his idea of anima/animus. Perhaps dolls are a manifestation of that sense of "soul" or of "shadow"? Thinking about Jung led me to think about the alchemists, and the quest for creating a homunculus, a small human, to assume the role of a god? Perhaps that is the root of all art, the desire to create worlds, and control them, a way of recognizing the sacred or holy force in the universe. Are they representations of ourselves and our myths?

For myself, I had a pretty happy childhood, a moderately tormented adolescence, and currently have a job I enjoy (teaching--so I get to nurture other people's adolescents) and a happy marriage. Kind of boring, probably. No kids, but a beloved niece. Watching her develop and play with toys, including dolls, has been a revelation. A lot of play with baby dolls is role-playing, imitating the adults around her. She loved to do whatever her mother did, including cooking, cleaning, and "taking call" (mom is a doctor). Her mom (my sister) and I grew up with dolls and doll houses, and we had relatives who were world travelers and who would bring dolls as gifts from trips. Our play was a continuation of dramatic and imaginative activities that included putting on plays, writing stories, and painting and drawing. Now I watch my niece (age 6) doing the same things.

I remember being fascinated by antique dolls and their completely outfitted wardrobe trunks as a child. The detail and miniaturization was compelling and still is for me. Our city is home to a Museum of Play, the core collection of toys and dolls once belonging to a wealthy local woman who, as a child, was reportedly given a shopping bag on outings and told she could have whatever filled the bag. She quickly discovered that the smaller the toys, the more she could have....thereby satisfying a desire to possess and amass, perhaps. Maybe to own things we can't practically have in real life?

I guess my psychological point is not to underestimate the importance of play. Play is essential to creativity. For my sister and I (we both collect bjds) the dolls are another creative outlet, and one that allows us to play, by ourselves, with each other, and with her daughter. The dolls are a sort of blank canvas upon which to work. I've been amazed, in this forum, by the sheer variety of ways in which people approach this hobby, some almost as novelists with characters and storylines, others as visual artists, still others as designers. Perhaps whatever motivates us to collect these inanimate representations of ourselves and our mythology, the ability to still play is a healing activity that moves us toward wholeness.

 

There are a few reasons that I could see the majority of doll owners relating with, like, feeling the need to nurture, admiring their beauty, etc.

But, at least for me, I started getting into BJDs because it was another way to express my artwork. I appreciated their beauty, but I found it a challenge to create something unique from a blank form that several other people own. Later on, I realized that doing faceups, making clothes and figuring story lines for each character was a stress release. Whenever life got too crazy and I needed an escape I could focus on creating something beautiful to keep my mind off of negative things going on. My sister escapes into her writing and books, I escape into sewing and painting dolls.

Its different for everyone. And since there are infinate senarios and personalities, I don't think there could be a blanket answer for why we all enjoys these dolls so much.

 

My mom freaked me out before i got my doll. she warned me agianst it because she thought that he would become my boyfriend and replace the void where a man would normally be in my life. Granted im 16 so she thought that i would totlaly abandon this very expensive present (that she didn't even pay for) when i did get a guy. i don't know if this is true or not but at the time it really freaked me out and i was really thwarted mentally from getting him but in the end decided upon it for "art" but it comes off kinda as an excuse. IT IS BECAUSE HES FRIKIN ARTSY and fraking beautiful but i felt like it was a natural evolution of what i already liked.

And he really does feel like a natural part of my life and a natural thing to have. He's different and a solid culmination of what i find eloquent and amazing! I was even worried that he would express the eloquence TOO much that i wouldn't feel the need to try and capture the eloquence in painting and music or whatever. i don't know if thats true yet either.

but he is a nice presence to have in my room and you could say as an only child its nice to have a little inanimate friend but some would say that that is a fake way to find company and that i should be spending my time with other people and stuff. BUT its ironic because once you have a doll you are immediately into this little club of Doll-people which is a blessing and a new experience of JOY! i swear i was walking around the Anime Expo and i talked with so many doll peopla and even answered questions about my own. i fealt proud. i do catch myself looking at pretty faces and wanting them to make a doll face like that and i worry that im getting to into this! haha! ah well. the stranger you are with this hobby the better because the world needs unique people and a variety make humanity all the more beautiful.

but i do feel like its a very real extention of how you would like to look or a past life or sumthing. cause it could just be unconsciously the way you choose the doll. the way it feels the most familiar or the most desirable. like i was finding the perfect name for a little cloth doll that i made and i went through like two days of naming him and in the end i came up with the perfect names list and then narrowed it down to the perfect first name and last name and without thinking of it i had picked the same initials of my name! i was astonished because it felt like the perfect name! ah well. its just so interesting!

ahhh, sorry for the rant. ya get me going and i just can't stop! so yea.

 

I think Its because i have instant attraction to things I define as beautiful, due my mothers harping on my image, I love to try to beautify everything in my path and collect things i find beautiful. From a shiny penny to an expensive dollfie, I love the beauty.

 

I have read Freud, semirans, but thanks for any clarification you gave.

I think it's interesting how anyone can analyze any one hobby/interest and read into their own motives for getting a bjd, especially since most dolls those of us in the Western part of the world have been given to play with have been virtually stripped of almost any thing related to sex; an exception being Barbie's plastic molded underwear.

But personal aesthetics come into play too, especially with BJDs where you have more than one type of face and body to choose from, unlike the vinyl Barbies. It's neat to see all the different choices you can make, and what could be said about that!

 

Dolls, to me, are a work of art I can afford! Can't afford an Old Master painting or even a Whistler, Degas or even a Cabot. So my dolls take their place. Its a comfort knowing I have some beautiful French resin that can become valuable over the years.

 

Oh I see a lot of our American dolls have almost everything to do with sex!

I have a Peter Pan complex and I'm not ashamed of it...my childhood sucked and I have some mental issues b/c of it.

My psychiatrists etc LOVE my dolls...they all have thought it's a great hobby for me to get into...I have expanded my creative horizons and have met people because of it. We use my dolls in my therapy as I'm CONSIDERABLY less stressed when I have a doll with me.

One had brought up an interesting point. I have severe joint problems and these dolls are known for their joints...and their movement fascinates me...so there is probably a very real connection there.

Freud would have something sexual to say for sure...esp. since many of our dolls are anatomically correct. Seeing as I have all tinies and mostly girls he'd have something to say about that too!

 

I suppose there are various reasons why i feel attracted to bjd.

My boyfriend often tells me I am a huge controle-freak. I just like things to be arranged in advanced and I prefer no unexpected things to happen while doing something but yeah ... Dolls are something I can completely control, the looks, the characters and what they do. When I'm taking pictures they are not like humans, moving all the time (except falling over from time to time).
For years I've tried to have my BF wear some medieval/fantasy clothing, since I absolutely adore it, and he always refuses ... Dolls are my boys which I can dressup the way I want it!

They are also some way of expressing my creativity. I quit art academy last year since I was too busy with school and I always have my dolls with me, so whenever I have time I can decide to do something with them, it's not bound to a schedule.

For the rest I think it has something to do with the fact that I prefer to be alone. Ever since I remember I was living in my own little world when I was alone in my room, pretending things and now I have a few "persons" to "interact" with who keep me company. Before I had my first doll I often talked to my fish, which has slightly decreased since I have them, but still, it's a habit. I have more companion now ^^ xD

I don't mind others to be around me, but they just don't have to interfere with the things I do and since that always happens, I think I just prefer to be alone once in a while, to calm down a bit and come to myself. Doesn't have to be all the time, I like going out aswell, but I need those moments, whitout I go crazy! xD

I suppose I'm just some kind of a weirdo... But hey, at least I feel happy the way I'm living and I'm not freaking out or behaving too weird... (i think)

 

I was also picked on mostly by guys my whole childhood. :/
Until this day I can't feel comfortable around most of them and that's really a shame because there are also a lot of nice guys in the world.

I have 9 dolls, 4 of them are guys but I dress only one as a guy. My other three boys are very feminine and wear dresses. I wonder how psychiatrists would analyse this! XD
This is what I think: I like feminine characteristics and dislike typical manly behavior and looks.
So I made my boys sweet, soft and beautiful as a girl would be. Somehow I think a feminine guy would be the most perfect beautiful being in the world. Or I should call it androgyne. Androgyne beings feel safe and are not threatening to me.

Edit: oh, and most of my girls look cute. But also have a don't-dare-to-mess-with-me-attitude. I like strong girls. I want to be one! XD

~

a former psychiatrist of mine thought I didn't want to buy more dolls if I would have friends. At that time I just had bought my third doll. And after a while I got really good friends thanks to this hobby. That didn't stop me to buy more dolls. :P
I don't buy dolls because I'm lonely. But to expres myself in a creative way and get to know the real me a little bit better.

 

All sounds about right (then again I think Freud was kinda cooky and a bit insane....not to mention the coke and mommy issues....yeah he himself was probably touched in the head.) XD I took Psych last year and am taking again this semester in college. I can't wait to see what my teacher says about my boy if I ever bring him to class. I'm sure it'll be some crack about me having unfulfilled desires or something, especially where I'm such a tom-boy. Freud would definitely say it was because I have penis envy or something.

On the other hand when I explain I'm really an art major I wonder if that would make it better or worse. XD I bought my boy as a representation of one of my characters first and for most, but I also got him for drawing posing

 

Well, I believe, a lot of emphasis is put on women's looks in Western society. And I look like I fell and hit every branch of the ugly tree, got up, and did it again!

I noticed through my travels around the internet, that there seems to be a common phenomenon of really ugly people (I have only noticed men doing this. I'm sure there are women like this, because I am like this) desiring really beautiful sexual partners. A lot of these internet people often have really high expectations of their partners. Maybe to make up for their own inadequacies? I dunno.

What I do know is that I have a high standard for male beauty... The problem is that Western society does NOT value beauty in men. The Western woman looks for "personality" or (the typical biological explanation) "resources." Nothing wrong with looking for someone with a nice personality, but studies show that Western men put a lot of emphasis on looks for women. It's one of those gender double standards, I find. Girls are sluts, men are studs sorta thing. And since Western women are not socialized (like in some cultures, such as one tribe in Africa, men must do a beauty pageant sorta thing just to attract a mate!) to look for beauty. Hence why most guys are... well, not beautiful, that's for sure!

I find my biggest problem is that my ideal human is best represented in bjd form. A very feminine youthful face with a nice masculine body. This ideal doesn't really exist outside of one of my favorite models, Roger Garth (and he is intersex). So, dolls to me are representations of what I consider to be ideal male beauty. Which is why I end up selling them so quickly when I can't achieve the "perfect" effect.

This is also why I like this hobby so much. It's easy to blur the lines, and have beautiful female heads on male bodies. And cross-dressing is generally accepted. The problem is that beauty standards, in my opinion, are too high for women (but I am biased due to my own ugliness). But the bigger problem I find is that there are no beauty standards for men. At least none with any traits that I find beautiful. At the moment, Japanese/Korean/Chinese men are the closest to what I consider to be the ideal male beauty. So, it really helps when they are the ones creating these dolls. And the dolls are sometimes based on these real ideal males.

I wouldn't consider it penis-envy, so much as privileged-envy.

Edit: So, I guess to sum it up into something that makes sense... BJDs are to me a way to escape a culture of female sexual beauty (shoved into your face at EVERY turn) with NO corresponding male sexual beauty (again, this is my opinion on male beauty. I notice most women don't share this opinion).

 

Truthfully, I don't care about nurturing a child or something comparable to a child. I'm seventeen, and in American society, it is generally frowned upon for someone that age to have a child. I do not view dolls in that way at all. I am drawn to dolls because of their beauty. They are aesthetically pleasing to me. I could stare at pretty dolls all day just to dissect what I find so beautiful in each doll. There are so many artistic ventures to find in the hobby. Photography, sewing, faceups, jewelry making, etc. Just picking out the colors of eyes and wigs is an artistic task in itself. Also, I forgot to mention that I was scared of dolls as a child. I feared they would come to life and kill me. I might place part of the blame on Chucky movies. =___= But yes. I am addicted to BJD beauty lol.

EDIT: Lycansea, I can agree with you about the high standard for female beauty and the virtually nonexistant standard for male beauty in the Western world. The only exception to this would probably be celebrities like Johnny Depp or Leonardo Dicaprio. They can get away with good looks without being branded as "gay" because they're so famous. Just one good-looking man like themselves garners so much more attention than twenty women that are on par with him. It's just because of the rarity of those men in Western society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, but straight men generally don't want to be labeled as such. I feel like Asian societies accept nice looking men more than Western societies. I think there are definitely more gorgeous asian men than western men on average. /so biased
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I see my dolls as art too, the represent me. I all doll owners put a little bit of themselves into these dolls. It's a safer way to express yourself, there's much more freedom.

 

I think a lot of it, for me, is the subconcious wish for lots of close friends with absolute loyalty and selflessness. The sense of ownership over someone and their whole world is of course a sign of a serious power complex. It's also why I'm into BDSM.

 

As far as I've thought about it, I think I can analyse my doll-collecting on two levels;

1) I've always collected things. Figurines, shiny rocks, cuddly toys, those things out of the Kinder Eggs, pieces of fancy fabric and all sorts of stuff. Not with any intent to have a "Complete set" (though that sometimes comes into it) but just to have more pretty/interesting/cuddly things. So having a shelf full of dolls is about par for the course.

2) I've got a lot of pretty disparate "creative" hobbies - I like painting, writing, drawing, sewing, sculpting, photography, woodworking and a dozen other "flavour of the month" things, and it's nice to have a central anchor that I can hang all those things off on occassion. Want to paint? If I'm stuck for canvas, I can give a doll a tattoo. Writing inspiration dried up? Plot out a story about dolls. Fancy sewing something extravagant, but can't afford nine yards of brocade? Make it in doll scale. And my ongoing quest to sculpt my own BJD is definitely improving my sculpting skills faster than flitting about between other projects.

On the other hand, I could just be compensating for my boring appearance and life.

 

Sexuality, unfulfilled needs and desires. Most people buy dolls of the opposite gender.
The interest to create characters appealing to the owner and his individual needs.

 

I don't know if anyone has chimed in with this yet but I have self-analyzed myself over the years and best answer I could come up with for the toy collecting comes from a suppressed desire to dominate others. The toys I collect are all representative (creature or human), no abstract toys, because I have a naturally dominant personality. this is unacceptable to society so I repress it. Instead of controlling people I channel that into control of dolls and figures, even changing their looks and personality to suit my whims. If this is a route cause it would definitely more common in women (such as myself) as society is less tolerant of domineering behavior from women, then it is of men.

 

Well, based on the short time we studied Freud when I learned Psychology at school, he would probably make it to do with sex in some way. Like... 'one can live their sexual fantasies out through humanoid dolls'. Although others might relate it to a maternal/paternal instinct or as an artistic outlet for theraputic methods.

Personally, I don't think we all fit into the same category although I think the above reasons I mentioned are likely to be the most common guesses.