What would you do if...you bought a doll that had been stolen?

Chibihaku #254

I agree so much , I couldn't agree more , it's perfectly said
It's definitely illegal to keep stolen items in every country , everywhere in the world , and seriously illegal to hide information about illegal actions ...

To anyone who agrees with a philosophy that they don’t care and that it’s not their fault so they’d keep the doll (and of course info because those go together) I say …
The fact is that if you bought a stolen doll you have crucial information about THE PERSON WHO SOLD THE STOLEN ITEM , who might be the thief or able to lead to the thief ... Most dolls are pinched in conventions so informing paypal / ebay / doa / doll community about the person who sold this to you may resolve this (small) case . Imagine a doll been stolen in a convention and the thief never been found, then everyone will be suspicious of everyone and the thief will probably continue steeling dolls. It's like feedback of a scam company ... To hide info about where / from whom you found the doll just to keep the stolen doll is purely consent to the theft and covering up the thief helping this person to continue pinching dolls here and there.

And it can be really ugly case if it's a stolen good from burglary , or worse armed robbery ... I’m noticing here those posts with the “it’s not my fault philosophy” .
isn't really ?? but the next time this criminal repeats his/her crimes it will surely be your fault too (actually most of the doers- criminals are caught by tracking the stolen items that's why paintings are stolen rarely compared to stereos , tv e.t.c.).
The item in many of such cases is also needed as evidence and then of course returned to the legal owner (from whom is stolen)

Of course the common case is a doll stolen at a convention but such things are happening, and dolls it's less often targeted by non doll people by non doll people but the sense of "oh I paid money so I care for nothing else" irritated me the most … It may be not a doll but some jewellery p.e. a recognisable ring e.t.c. , the philosophy , I paid so I keep quiet to keep the goods” it’s the same .
Do you really have this philosophy no matter how serious were the circumstances of a crime ? I wonder ..

I think it’s a very serious legal and also moral issue , personally I’d share every information with community /moderators / paypal / ebay e.t.c. and give the whatever item or doll to owner if it was a simple case and If it was a serious case to police with a formal statement and every information without a second thought . .

 

You know what bothers me? The comments "doll owners should get insurance". I had a brand new €700 bike stolen in July this year and luckily for me it was covered by my equally brand new bike insurance, but I had to pay another €100 for a new bike insurance policy for my new bike (paid for by my insurance company). That's €100 the thief more or less forced me to pay for something I already paid €800 for (700+100 insurance costs). So I ended up with a €700 bike for which I ended up paying €900.
Replace "bike" with "doll" and the sentiment remains the same, because I don't like the attitude that the original owner should pay extra so that the person who bought the stolen doll can keep it with a twisted sense of clear conscious.

[edit] I'd like to add that my bike that got stole was of a special limited colour and the replacement bike is of a colour I like less. Imagine you have to pay extra to get a replacement doll in a resin colour you do not like. Where's the logic in that?

 

Well... sadly, life simply is not fair, least of all when it comes to crimes.

I do see your point and agree with you that the situation sucks as much for the buyer of the stolen doll
as for the victim of the theft.

But German law holds that you* (generic you from here) cannot purchase ownership in stolen goods, not even if you did not know it was stolen. Not knowing merely makes you safe from being persecuted yourself, knowingly buying stolen goods is as much a crime as selling them.

So you actually have no legal right to the doll at all, even though you are out of money.
The doll still belongs to its original owner who is not only morally but also legally entitled to get it back.

The only case you have, being the second victim in the case, is against the thief who conned you out of your money, and that puts it in your own interest to go the honest way and help persecute the guy.
Because that is your only chance to get at least part of your money back.

At least that is the legal situation in Germany, to my knowledge as a non-lawyer.
In other countries, it may differ, though I don´t expect it to do so too much.

 

Of course, Chibihaku.
A lot of my enjoyment of this hobby comes with taking photograhs and putting them in the forum. I whole hearted could not keep someone else's doll because the pleasure for me the in the doll would be lost. Having to keep it a secret. I couldn't buy the doll before hand if I knew the doll was stolen! However if it was taken from some one during transit, how could I ever know that? It's not likely the theif would let me in on their scam after I had paid for the transaction, when they know they could get busted. All in all I have given the most honest opinion on this 'debate' as I could.

 

1. Say the s word.
2. Say the s word again very loudly.
3. Say the s word while dancing around in a panic.
4. Say the s word while flailing.
5. Calm down, contact original owner, show proof of transaction, then....
6. Repeat steps 1-4.
7. Reunite owner with item.
8. Count my loss, more than likely.
9. If possible, find a method of being reimbursed.
10. File a claim.

 

A lot of people really seem to be relying on the fact they'll get their money back. Just curious...
A question to all the people who replied with a 'give it back to the owner, get my money back' comment.
In all honesty would your opinion change at all if it looked highly unlikely you would get a refund? A, maybe the owner gets the doll back but you might not get a refund, situation.

(This is why I always buy straight from the company.)

 

I have to point out on the insurance topic, that my dolls while insured are NOT replaceable. If one was stolen then his faceup, history, flaws, personality and all the work I spent on him go with him. I could take the say $400 and buy a new one of the same model, pay for shipping again, work 5-6 hours on the faceup, sand his seams, acquire the same clothes, but every second I spent on the clone would be a reminder of someone out there stealing a very sentimental item from me.

He would never be the same. It'd be like someone killing your orange dog with floppy ears so you buy another orange dog with floppy ears, but guess what? It's not the same dog. It'll never be the same dog even if it has the exact same personality and features. Why you ask? because you'll always know that your dog is dead.

I'd be left with a doll I can't bond with and raised premiums on my insurance. Not fun.

 

I would certainly return the doll to the person it was stolen from. If not for the legalities issue of receiving and retaining stolen goods at the very least for the moral issues. I feel that keeping something that was stolen from somebody else is wrong, whether or not I paid for it. For me, the doll would be coloured by that negativity. I doubt I'd feel good about keeping it. I'd feel much better for giving it back.

 

Saiko, you're absolutely right and I couldn't agree more with you. Indeed, I can assure you that from the legal point of view in our country you have to return stolen goods, even if you bought them unknowingly.

I am well aware of that, but the point I wanted to bring forward was just that I don't believe that most people are going to obey the law in certain circumstances. I don't know, call my a cynic, but I have experienced mankind to be otherwise as soon as much money is involved. There's this saying friendship ends where much money is involved, well, this holds true for moral as well. It usually ends, too, if too much money is involved.

 

I might not do step 5-10 in that order, but I'd definitely be doing 1-4.

I think most of us who say we'd work to get the doll back to the original owner would at least try to get our money back from PayPal or the original seller; however, I also think that most of us know in the back of our minds that we'll probably not see that money, or all of it, again.

It's just a risk you take when buying a doll from a non-company seller, and you also take that risk with a legit company (I read that CCC thread from a while ago). It's kind of why I prefer to stick to what I know unless I've heard almost nothing but good things about a company or seller. A good reputation can be like insurance in some way.

 

Not ending up with a criminal record is worth something even if you end up without your money. Dutch law is constructed in such a way you can be charged with buying stolen property when it was possible you could have known the item was stolen. Someone offering you a Bermann for $600 for example. It doesn't matter the thought it could have been stolen didn't occur to you, because if someone offers you a Bermann for retail price, it's possible for you to know there's something fishy going on.

Having a criminal record isn't fun. It will hamper you finding a job or even bar you from certain jobs and getting a loan or mortgage will be difficult.
Consider being tricked into buying stolen property the same as being robbed of your money or scammed out of your money. You file a police report, contact your bank/CC company and hope you can get your money back.

 

No, it wouldn't, just because I already lost that money the moment I bought the doll. Also, to me, making someone else happy is worth more than all of the money in the world. Money is just a thing. It comes and goes with time. You earn it, you spend it, you find it, you lose it. Dolls come and go with time - you buy them, sell them, they work, they don't work.

If you make someone happy, genuinely, really happy, that lasts. That stays with them forever. You might forget, but that person, the person you made happy, will remember your kindness and generosity for the rest of their lives.

 

As someone whose fiance's doll was stolen, I would give the doll back. Her doll is (was?) a Bambicrony Bella Bambi Marianne. She herself is offering a huge reward for a good Samaritan who returns her little doll- a doll of that person's choice or the equivalent in money.
Not just because she's a good person, but because that doll means so much to her.
Sometimes doing the right thing can net you a bigger reward than keeping an ill-gotten treasure.


(Her account on here is being approved; she just kinda lurked while I looked around)

 

I would probably contact the police before I do anything else. Yes, the police, and not the owner, comes first. I would tell them the exact situation - who I bought the doll from, to whom I think that the doll belongs (the supposed original owner), how much I paid, in which form (PayPal or bank transfer etc.). I would give the doll to the police and ask them what I should do next (if there is any chance for me to get my money back, if I should try to contact the seller, etc.).

I would only contact the supposed original owner afterwards and tell them that I turned over the stolen article which I bought unsuspectingly to the police.

And you know why I would contact the police first? I might be paranoid, but I don't believe anything said or written on the internet easily. There are old men out there taking on a role of little girls, and women who pretend to be men, and there is a whole lot of ANONYMOUS and identity-switching.

Just imagine the crazy situation in which the "original" owner is an accomplice of the thief trying to get the same extremely expensive doll again to sell it once AGAIN to an unsuspecting buyer, because they know that the real owner is not on DoA (yes, not all people are). Or the "original owner" being a friend of the "thief", the doll never having been stolen, and them both just trying to get money from a fraud, by selling the doll and then getting it back for free. So, to the police it goes, and the police in turn can return it to the owner. I just wouldn't want to enable even MORE fraud in case the supposed owner actually isn't one.

I strongly suspect I wouldn't get my money back anyway, actually. PayPal doesn't really give your money back unless they can get it back from the seller. And bank transfer cannot be undone. So no, I would have no hope.

I wouldn't just keep the doll because it is against the law.


To Moi-Dix-Mana: I would advice your fiancee to contact the police too.

 

We have physical proof that the doll, if found, belongs to her. We're not sure if we can contact the police since she was stolen in a different state. My fiance lives in GA and the doll was stolen while she was in AL.

 

Nope. I'd return the doll even if I got nothing in return. Because I'd want someone to do the same (even though I'd probably find a way to give the person SOMETHING for their trouble). And seeing that person reunited with their doll would probably make me forget about reimbursement. Sometimes, a happy memory and a new friend is worth more than lost money.

contact the police station in the city you were staying in at the time of the theft. You can file a police report over the phone in this case.

 

I'll have her do that and we'll file one. We have the people that run the con looking out for her. I'm really glad to see that everyone here seems honest in their intentions. We've run into problems in real life with dollfie theft before (a friend of ours, not us). We're helping her resolve the issue in small claims court, but it is just awful watching someone go through that.

Dollfies are like children, so its hard to understand that people in the community itself would perpetrate the act. I'm glad to see people being honest, even those that dissent a bit. While I don't agree with all of the symantics, at least everyone is being honest. My two cents xD

 

Illegal or not...It was someones dolly and i would return it no matter how much it worth. I can't even imagine how painful it would be to loose such close friend. $100 or $4000...i'd return it. No doubt about it.

 

I would do that. but at the same time. i dont very buy my dolls for the marketplace or ebay (no way on ebay) because i wonldnt want take that kind of rise. so i buy my dolls for the site.

 

I think I'd probably cry. Going through the saving up and anticipation to find out what you bought is not truly yours. There's no doubt, I would definetly give the doll back to the owner. I'd just be really depressed to have been tricked.