What would you do if...you bought a doll that had been stolen?

Very interesting thread. I share the same opinion as mostly everyone else that should I find out that a doll I bought was stolen and it wasn't a scam, the doll would be returned. I also follow the thought process of holding onto something I suspect might be lost, and returning it in case I ever find the owner- though this seems to go with items that are pretty distinguishable. If it was like a generic watch or phone, I'd bring it to a lost and found.

I do have an interesting hypothetical though... What if a long time has passed since the initial theft? Like you've had a doll for years that you got second hand. It has tell tale signs of the previous ownership, like initials in the head cap and custom tattoos. Perhaps you've modified them a bit to better suit your tastes- sanding down the nose, widening the eyes, changed the faceup, things like that. You love this doll and it couldn't be any more yours.

Then you go on DOA (or another dolly forum) that you visit frequently and for some reason you find an old thread you didn't see before about a doll that was stolen. It was from years ago, the doll was the same sculpt of your favorite of your collection- the one you modded and came with awesome tats. It appears the doll was stolen around the same time you got yours. The doll was never found and the original owner gave up and has since bought a replacement. The stolen doll happens to have the exact same initials and tattoos your favorite came with. Even the wig and eyes yours came with from the seller were the same- though your doll may or may not be wearing them at the moment. The pictures look exactly like how your doll came to you. It turns out that your favorite doll, one you've had for years was actually stolen property.

What do you do? Does anything change?

 

I don't think it would change much- I would still feel compelled to get in touch with the original owner (again, assuming that there is no doubt that this doll IS the one that was stolen), but if the original owner has replaced the doll, I would be surprised if they wanted it back. If they did, though, they are still legally entitled to it (as far as I know) even if it would tear my heart out to do it. If they did ask for it back, I might ask them if I could buy it from them legally, but I don't know- it would depend on who the person was, I think. In some ways, while it would be heart-breaking, it might be easier to just let the doll go.

In that situation, though, it could be much harder to get a refund from the thief who had sold the doll, which would suck. There is also a chance that the police might not be interested- I know some crimes can only be investigated or prosecuted for a certain amount of time after they have happened, but I have no idea what the time scale is for theft.

It would be a really crappy situation to be in, though, that's for sure.

 

I had been thinking about this thread today (I really hope it doesn't get locked, because all-in-all, I think we're keeping relatively level-headed here) and I was wondering about something.

It's hypothetical, and I really have no clue as to what to do here, though I think the actions should be the same as in any other stolen scenario, but here's a scenario I had wondered about: (editing to make it different from the previous scenario)

Say you've purchased a doll, second hand. When you go look at the stolen BJD section, you see a thread posted a year or two ago, discussing the same kind of doll that you have, and they give evidence to see if anyone has purchased this doll, and basically everything to make you check out your doll. Lo and behold, the description given matches your doll to the letter.

As you're going to contact that person about how you might have their doll, you notice on their signature or somewhere in their profile that they either have left the hobby a year before.

What's the best action someone should take with this?

Personally, I'm thinking that I'd PM them first, then maybe wait 30 days to hear back from them. If they've left the hobby, and didn't respond, I might contact any people in their friend's list (if they had any). If not, I'm not exactly sure what I'd do. If this doll went missing a year or two ago, who knows how many people this doll has been handed down to; it might be extremely difficult to find the thief in question who started all this.

Truthfully, I'd still contact the police, just to be safe. I don't want anything possibly making me a suspect if I can avoid it. If the police tell me to wait the 30 days, and see what happens, then that's what I'll do. If after that, they tell me to keep it, I'll keep it. I wouldn't feel right keeping a stolen doll after I found out it was stolen.

If the shoe were on the other foot (in this scenario) and I had already replaced the doll in question with the exact same one, and rebonded with it, if someone contacted me after all this time with my doll, I think I'd just let them have it.

(also, from what I've seen from court shows, the statute of limitations tends to be 2yrs, I think - except in terms of murder and maybe rape/assaults)

 

No matter what the scenario, I would have a ethical (if not legal) obligation to attempt to contact the original owner, and failing that, go to the authorities. I can't think of *any* situation where this would not be the case.

 

Queen of Spades: While I have to admire your bravery in putting out a highly controversial opinion, I can't say I agree with your idea that money is more important than being a generally decent person.

Well thats okay, I admit my ideas at this moment were probably wrong and I haven't think about it deeply before posting. The more that i'm thinking about it i'd feel too bad to keep something that expensive that probably have a lot of sentimental value to someone, and anyway I have no choice of returning the doll since I will gladly report the thief and in that case the "stolen item" have to go back to the owner, that again I totally understand even if I will loose a lot of money... BUT there is a way to explain instead of jumping on people like other persons did because my opinion was different.

I don't want to continue this conversation since my english is not good enough to explain myself better but I remember now why I don't answer to these debate topics, some people can't debate without being rude or bashing on "different" opinions instead of having good discussion.

Thank you for those people that instead of jumping on me with useless comments, have explain to me why my ideas were "wrong".

 

Hm.

Many people say that it would be a hard decision, because they paid for the doll with their hard earned money. Interestingly when thinking about this situation I actually feel a little bit of giddiness at the prospect of giving something important back to the person the doll was stolen from. It wouldn't be a hard decision for me at all - I think I'd practically throw myself at the original owner.

And it's not like I'm a millionaire who has an infinite source of money. I have to work really hard to get my dolls... But it'd still feel quite satisfying to cause someone such happiness - especially after they suffered the loss of their doll.

I'd definitely ask the original owner to go through the proper legal channels though, and partially so I could take some action against the thief and maybe get my money back. I think it's also worth mentioning, that I cannot see myself buying a $1000+ doll secondhand. I'm too paranoid to do that - if it comes to secondhand, I mostly buy only heads...so my monetary loss wouldn't be as much as in a limited fullset grail doll scenario. In that - impossible for me - case I might mourn my money a bit more, but that wouldn't deter me from doing the right thing.

For the question where the doll has been stolen years ago and the original owner has already moved on. I think I'd very politely ask them to think about me if they consider selling the doll - because I'd be glad to buy it from them. I hope that as a gesture of gratitude they would indeed offer me first dibs on the doll (not a discount mind you....just the opportunity to get it....properly this time^^)

And if I found a doll somewhere - I'd definitely post everywhere I know to try and find the owner. I wouldn't have gone to the police though before I read this thread - I assumed that they wouldn't deal with cases of plastic dolls. But now I know better - so police it is. And if they still don't find the owner and I get it back after the search - I think I could go two ways. If I really liked the doll I might keep it (of course if the real owner turned up after a while, I'd still give it back to them). But I wouldn't keep a doll in a box infinitely just waiting for a hypothetical owner to turn up - if they didn't even after extensive search and a long waiting period, I would make a fun contest, or I don't know...find someone who really wanted that doll but couldn't get it for some reason...and I'd give it to them as a present.

 

My 7 1/2 cents. When you buy a stolen doll, you have been scammed. It's the same, morally, as buying something that is never shipped, or buying a Super Dollfie and getting a Barbie in the shipping box. In this case, you may have a physical doll in your hands, but the seller has scammed you by selling you something s/he did not own. When you find out you've been scammed, you report the scam to the police; the person who sold you something, but did not deliver what you contracted to buy (a legally obtained doll), committed a criminal act.

The original owner isn't responsible for your losing the money that you spent on the doll; the original owner isn't responsible for your emotional loss because you liked the doll so much. Both of those acts are the responsibility of the thief and, if they aren't the same, the person who sold the stolen goods.

In a well-run world, the original owner is profusely grateful, and the police catch the bad guy. Sometimes the world isn't well-run. The only way we can improve the world is to behave the way we wish other people would treat us.

(Note: Obviously, by "the seller" I mean the original person who sold the stolen doll. If you bought it from somebody who got it, as s/he thought, legitimately, then s/he got scammed, too.)

 

I would always contact the owner of said doll to try to return it if it was obviously their doll. If they left the hobby, I would try to use the email function offered on DoA to email them and try to see if they possibly had a LJ or FaceBook or Twitter or possibly friends still in the hobby who could help point me in the right direction. I do not keep stolen goods.

Though honestly, while an interesting question, I think the chances of someone selling a doll stolen from a private individual on DoA are really pretty slim. Even if the person the doll is stolen from is not a DoA member, other people at meet ups frequently are and the word gets out pretty fast. I remember when a non-member had her dolls stolen at an anime con, and DoA members attending the con got up information on the missing dolls before the con even ended. People on DoA also tend to be on the look out for stolen dolls to help try and return them to their rightful owners. I've seen people post if they think an auction on eBay is suspicious. And not to say there aren't scammers here on DoA, there definitely are, but when you consider the sheer volume of transactions on DoA, the majority of which end satisfactorily for both buyer and seller, it just seems unlikely such a case would occur if you bought from DoA.

In the case of finding a doll, I was one of the people with Kim who found the doll in NYC. I remember we had decided to make an organized effort to find the owner ASAP which involved first asking at the Gershwin, then to make sure Pat Henry was alerted at the 2nd day of the Dolpa, and if the owner did not come forward at the Dolpa itself, to contact the mods at DoA to start getting the word out. We were sure that the rightful owner would be found and none of us were ever tempted to keep the doll.

 

Here's what you're not getting:

It's not your doll. You paid money to a thief for a doll that belongs to someone else. It does not matter how much you love someone else's doll, it's not right to keep it.

You should get your money back. But you should not get the money back from the original owner of the doll. You must get the money back from the thief.

 

Both for purposes of covering your own legal involvement, and for getting (possible) reimbursement, either from a credit card company or (if you are really lucky) ebay or the thief, you absolutely MUST go to the police first. THEN you can contact the former owner. If you have gone to the police and turned over the doll to them, the former owner cannot turn around and claim that you are the thief. A scammer will not go to the police in turn for fear of being found out (before police will turn over stolen property to the owner, they will require not only proof of original ownership, but evidence of a report of theft being filed, I believe.)

But the first thing you must do is go to the police.

 

Well, on the bright side hopefully you have the thief's actual address to actually address police complaints to.

The way I see it. You are out money unless you get on the thief's tail hard enough. I would see it more as the doll didn't actually arrive, then being tempted to keep it.

As someone else above mentioned, I would enjoy the joy the original owner would get from getting their doll back.

But I can barely afford the dolls I have, but the doll is, in my mind, not even there. I didn't even get it.

 

I think, as far as being rude is concerned, it would depend on the situation and the owner's personality. If they offer a reward for the return of their doll, I'd probably not ask, since it's obvious they value the doll itself more than the money. If, however, it had been a while since the theft occurred, I would ask with the thought that maybe they've moved on, and would be okay with selling it to someone they know wants it. As I said before, the worst they can do is say no. Let them think me rude if they so desire, but on the off-chance the doll I wanted so badly could still be mine, I'd risk asking.

 

I might be a little more cautious than I should be, but I don't think I'd risk it. For a recent theft, I don't know how many resources this person has used to get the word out about their doll, and I don't know the kind of bond they had with it, either. I'm thinking that they'd be in a nutty emotional state (if not about the doll, about being the victim of theft), and offering them money might send them off a tirade of hate mail, or something.

I think I'd just give back the doll, and work on getting my money back in any way I could, so I could buy from someone else, or from the company. I can't even say that you can go by the seller's feedback; you don't know how many hands this doll has been passed down from, and maybe they all had pristine feedback because they didn't know or check?

But this got me thinking (once again) about the very few who would keep the doll, or sell it back to the owner. Yeah, they've pretty much quieted down because they have been put in their place about this, but I'd still like to throw yet another curve ball into this mix:
What if this was about animals, and someone was going to try to sell back your cat or dog because they had invested time, and attention on it?

 

There's no question about it. Turn the doll over to the appropriate authorities, report the person you bought it from, and let the law handle it.

I don't care if it's a car, a doll, or a stick of bubblegum, if something falls within my possession that had been stolen, the only right choice is to do everything within my power to see the wrong righted. I know how horrible I would feel if someone stole Ivan or Micah, that empathy for a fellow doll owner alone should prompt us to act. We should be as willing to fight for our fellows as we do ourselves.

 

I cut off the last part, because I want to reply to the first part of the above. When you bring a found doll to the police you can still get the word out in the doll community to help the police get in contact with the rightful owner. A simple "I found a BJD doll in city/town X and brought it to police station Y." posted on doll forums will help a lot. Not too much information so that greedy people cannot come claim what isn't theirs, but enough information to direct the rightful owner towards where to get their doll back.
You can still do your own work to track the owner down even when you handed the doll to the police. ^_^

[edit] I wanted to add the following regarding finding out that the doll you bought years ago was stolen from someone else and then sold to you. I'd still try to get in touch with the original owner. Although it may not be possible to get my money back from the thief or even file a police report when too many years have passed, I can't tell how the owner would feel about the doll. It could be that the owner doesn't want it any more due to too many negative associations attached to the doll, but that's up to the owner to decide. It could be that the owner really needs a "Wow, I can't believed that my much loved doll is returned after so many years. Miracles do exist!" at that moment. I would just say that even if I can't get my money back in this theoretical case I would have had many years of fun with the doll and maybe get to have some fuzzy warm feelings from making someone happy.

 

I would, of course, try to get my money back by any means possible and give the doll back to the righteous owner >_<

 

It would be a difficult situation. But, as harsh or unmoral, or whatever this sounds, I wouldn't just gift her the doll back for free. I think I would contact her first, and talk about what to do about it, and then I would contact the seller, asking her to give me my money back if she doesn't want me/the owner to go to court. Something like that
But just loosing so much money is impossible for me- I'm just a student, I don't earn money, and every doll I buy is a huge investment for me. (And I also think that, and this sounds harsh again, the original owner is to blame more for the doll being stolen than me. If you take an expensive doll to a meeting, you should keep an eye on it. Of course you want to trust all the people there, because everyone is nice, and has the same interests, and so on- but sadly there always are black sheep. Just look after your doll, and this won't happen)

 

As much as it would suck, I'd have to give it back to its rightful owner. I'd let the seller know what they had just sold me, and hopefully get my money back! But chances are it would be a loss on my end. But if I didn't give it back and I knew it had been stolen, I couldn't live with that guilt.

 

If I somehow ended up buying a stolen doll, guild would eat me alive. I'd never be truly happy with what I have. Heck, even the doll would probably puppy eye me. So if I could, I'd contact the true owner of the doll and try to get the doll returned. (She'd pay shipping though, I wouldnt charge her for the doll at all.) I know I'd lose out on probably a whooole lot of money but giving joy to another person if worth much more than any form of monetary gain. Joy is priceless. I know I would want the same done for me.

I'm a broke jobless student and buying a doll is an investment for me as well, but there are just some things that should be done. Of course I would try to report whoever was responsible for stealing the doll in the first place (it could have been passed on many times before it was discovered to be a stolen doll) but the most important thing is to give. Give and you will receive, right?

 

(1) Don't try to handle a theft privately. First of all, the police are better at it than you are. Second, if you resolve one theft privately, the thief will probably keep stealing and reselling, so somebody else is going to be a victim.
(2) "You can't afford to lose the money" doesn't acknowledge that you have already lost the money. You paid for something that the seller didn't own. It's exactly the same as paying a seller who never ships you the doll. The seller stole money from you.
(3) Wow, the victim-blaming is amazing here. Theft only happens to people who deserve it? Interesting world. We've had people on this thread discuss having dolls stolen from the locked trunk of a car. We've had people who lost dolls in burglaries. In your world, all those people are at fault, not the thieves who stole the dolls.

If you are ever the victim of a theft -- I was, my home was burglarized -- you'll realize that bad things happen to people who don't deserve it, and that the universe punishes the just and the unjust. The cops who took my theft report said that to be safe, I should replace all the windows in my house with double-glazed glass so that a burglar can't break in. Was it my fault that I hadn't done that? If I can't afford to replace all the windows, is it going to be my fault if somebody breaks in again? No. It's the thief's fault. (note to self: really must buy and floor-bolt safe.)