What would you do if...you bought a doll that had been stolen?

It really has nothing to do with doll community vs other communities. It's really just plain old human nature. It's really not that uncommon for a person to justify at some point or another why they should be allowed to do something that is morally (or legally in this case) wrong. A vast majority of people will do this at some point or another in their lives, though most of the time it probably won't involve something big like theft. So, please don't let it turn you off of the doll community at all!

I'm very glad that this thread brought up going to the police no matter what. I seriously would never considered that. I would have never thought twice about going straight to the original owner, never once considering the possibility of a scam or maybe the owner assuming that I was the thief. It's sort of sad that those types of things do happen.

 

Adding onto my previous post on the page before this one: Laws are there to protect people and are essentially the overall thought of the population of the country. So if theres a law on it being illegal to "SELL" back a stolen item, obviously the law is there because its a bad thing. :/

 

It depends on the situation I guess. But in the end I would probably give the doll back to the original owner, because I would just love it if someone found my doll, had it been stolen.
I have to be honest that I would probably try to get something of an arrangement ($500 for instance is not something you want to lose obviously) but I wouldn't ask them to pay what I paid, that's just cruel.
In some cases you could even try to get your money back from Paypal or something.
I'd be sad if I bought a new doll and it turned out to be stolen, especially if it was a rare mold. But I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt :/

 

Do you mean you want to get something of an arrangement with the person who sold the doll to you? Don't negotiate with thieves, report them to the police. If you meant an arrangement with the rightful owner, you could make an arrangement regarding shipping costs, but not ask for a compensation for your loss. The owner didn't scam you.

 

This thread has been fascinating. Overall, I find it uplifting that the community comes down so clearly and firmly on the side of justice. As for those few who admit their own whims are more important to them than morals -- well, at least they are honest. And I don't mean that in a snide way. I am genuinely glad they are honest about it. It allows the rest of us to make informed decisions about dealing with them.

It does, however, amaze me that there are people out there who are not only willing to keep stolen property, but also eager to try to justify it to others as though it were an acceptable thing to do for any reason. The fact that they think it can be excused at all is rather sad, especially when the excuses given are all things that could apply to the true owner as much as to themselves. I'm poor. I love the doll. I did modifications to it that make it unique. It's not my fault it was stolen. But it's mine. I deserve to get my money back. There is a complete inability to see the situation from any position but their own. It's an immature -- not to mention selfish -- manner of dealing with the world, and it's rather disturbing.

What also amazes me is the blaming of the original victims. None of the people who have tried to justify keeping the stolen doll or selling it back to the true owner have seemed to place any real blame for the situation on the thief. Somehow it always comes back to the true owner being responsible, which makes no sense. It's almost as though they want to punish the person for having the rightful claim to the doll they want. How completely childish!

I hope that it will turn out that those saying they would keep the stolen property simply haven't finish growing up yet. I really do. The alternative is too disappointing to think about.

 

No I meant with the person it got stolen from. And like already I said, I wouldn't ask for money.

 

To counter the argument "I can't afford to lose that much money" you must realise that you have lost the money the moment you were tricked into buying stolen goods, just like you have lost your money the moment you hand it over to a scammer who then runs off with it. The only way to get your money back is to go after the person who has your money, which is not the rightful owner.

It may look logical to use the doll as leverage to get money, but the owner does not have your money. Asking the owner to compensate you for your loss is wrong, because it was not the owner's fault you got tricked. The owner never even wanted you to be tricked into buying their doll.
Just the thought some people are even willing to consider to make someone who is already suffering from a crime suffer some more is appalling.

 

I'm really glad you brought this up as I hadn't even considered it. I too hope it's simply a case of normal immature selfishness here, rather than adults who have already got their moral compasses wonky- and will continue to be wonky forever. Now I think about it, it seems quite likely. We've all made mistakes when we were young, and did things we regret now we're older. I know I certainly have! In the past I have said and done things that I now think were, if not morally reprehensible, at least pretty stupid. I try to make up for it by being more circumspect now.
On that note, I would urge people not to damn other members for what they're saying on the basis that they are evil people- it could be simply that they're not mature enough to quite grasp the ethics of the situation, and will hopefully grow up to realise the error of their decisions.
If, on the other hand, they are actually grown adults who should know better, well, I don't know what to think!

 

Why do people keep insisting on protecting the thief/seller of stolen goods? They have scammed the buyer, sold them goods that were not as described. If you shelled out for a second hand doll and got something completely different you did not want, you'd go after the seller, and not the company, right? So how is a stolen doll different? Or is it okay by you because it's absolutely perfect apart from one flaw which is the fact that another human being had it taken from them? Instead of resenting the person who unlawfully took your money, you resent the person who it rightfully belongs to, the victim who doesn't ask to be linked to that doll in such a way, who never ever wanted it to be taken from them in the first place? And then demand a fellow victim to compensate you? I understand that you want your money back, and it has to come from somewhere, but why the victim? Why not the thief?

I don't understand how even a young adult could put this thought together in their heads without realising how utterly selfish and unevolved this sort of logic is. It's like some kind of primordial reaction to resent the entity that you perceive to take something away from you, when really it was never rightfully yours. The only thing you are entitled to is your money to be returned from the thief. And the only person who unlawfully took something from you and owes you compensation for this is the thief who sold stolen goods.

 

This is the excuse that really floors me. So you're poor. So what? That means you get to keep somebody's stolen property? Are you seriously excusing your behavior because you don't have as much as somebody else?

There will always be somebody richer and somebody poorer than you. Always. So if somebody poorer than you found your stolen doll and decided to keep it because they're poor, how would you feel?

Completely agree! This line of reasoning disgusts me. It's like saying a woman is begging to be raped because she's wearing low cut or tight fitting clothes.


ANYwho, to answer the original question: I would contact the police, the website where the doll was being sold, and the original owner. I would then return the doll to the owner.

 

I've been hoping this, too. So I did a little experiment. I asked my son-- age 11-- what he would do in this circumstance. (I changed the particulars to make it something more interesting to him, but kept the price about equal). His answer: "It's not mine. How could I keep it?" He didn't know it was illegal to keep it, btw. He just (instinctively?) knew it was wrong. We ended up having a nice conversation about that. Then I asked two of his friends on the playground (separately) and got the same answer. Each time the response was really emphatic, too, almost as though I was impugning their honesty.

I don't think my son or his friends are anything special as regards morals. And while admittedly my sample size is small (n=3), if eleven-year-olds can understand a cut and dry case of right and wrong it seems odd to me that older people cannot. And sad.

But yeah, maybe these people have some growing up to do, and maybe they'll experience something personal that changes their view sooner rather than later.

 

I've kept coming back to this thread because of a horrified fascination. Firstly, I'm happy to say that I've changed my mind about it being a depressing thread because actually, the majority of people here know right from wrong and I even wonder if some of the more outrageous comments were just from attention seekers looking to stir up a hornets nest? I hope so anyway, because the alternative is that those few have a complete lack of empathy for other human beings and think the world revolves around them and their whims/financial situation.

As someone noted earlier, I would never have thought to put up a thread like this because the answer is a no-brainer and surely could only have one answer, you know, the answer that doesn't involve risking serious jail time. Doh, how wrong can you be!

I think there is a big difference between being young and making a foolish self-centered statement or being older, wiser and just not giving a toss for anyone but yourself. Oh, and Victim Blaming, nice, that's just the cherry on the cake!

 

Aw, he sounds lovely ^^ and he's right too; he gave such a succinct answer: It isn't yours, so you can't keep it. Very good advice. I'm just surprised some people haven't cottoned on to that yet O.o
However, I'm still hoping that some people are just exceptionally immature, rather than out-and-out psychopathically selfish. I must admit that I personally have always known it's wrong to keep what isn't yours (at least after the age of two, where one has the tendency to clutch whatever item takes your fancy with the shrill cry of "MINE!"), but I'm giving others the benefit of the doubt and just assuming that yes, perhaps, they ARE attention-seeking or maybe they've been over-hasty in their thought processes. It would just be too depressing to think that there are some adults out there still at the grabby-toddler stage.

 

First I'd contact the seller and claim that the doll never arrived (If they're going to lie and be sneaky, so am I). I'd throw such a big shit-fit that I'd get my money back... and don't think I wouldn't succeed either (I once hounded a scammer every day for 4 months till I got my money back)! Once I got my money back, I'd return the person's stolen doll and give them the seller's info. I'd also make sure that the seller was banned from DOA or ebay or whatever site/ community they used to sell the doll.

TLDR: I can be ruthless when I hate someone, and anyone who would steal something that important, more than earns my hatred

 

Hmm. I don't know, I can think of problems with this O.o what if the seller who sold to you didn't actually steal the doll and didn't know it was stolen? And more pressingly, what if you DIDN'T get the money back? Don't you think it's likely that, now they've got your money and shifted the doll, they'd just take it and run? It's only the internet, after all- you could just turn off the computer, pocket your cash and do whatever you want with it. So, having got this stolen doll and no money, what would you do then? Keep it? And also, if the seller HAD stolen the doll or knew it was stolen, wouldn't it be more productive to go to the police, rather than just informing mods, etc? I don't know much about life inside a prison, but I don't think it would be easy to get online, let alone buy or sell dolls, so that would kill two birds.

 

I've though about this long and hard before answering, so here are my two cents.

If I were somehow in the position where I ended up with a stolen doll( and there were no doubts that it was, in fact, the stolen doll), I would most likely file a claim with the individual who sold the doll to me (if they're local, the police would be involved, if international, I'd try to report them to their local police if possible, but by filing a claim I would hopefully be able to get my money back because of the problem.)

I would then contact the original owner. If they got a new doll to replace it and have re-bonded, so be it, if not, I would offer them their doll back and only ask if they could cover the shipping cost if the package would have to travel internationally. If they are in the same coutnry as me, I don't paying for the shipping, but if they offer, I wouldn't refuse. I admit, I'd probably be mad about spending money and the time waiting for the possible doll for me to arrive, but I doubt I would ever keep it for myself if I knew for a fact that it was stolen. It's just bad karma.

Now, I feel I should point out there are a very few instances where one can have things stolen legally ( repossession due to defaulting on debt, abandonment in a storage unit, etc.) and in those cases I'm not quite sure what I would do. I mean it's not always as though the seller/repo/storage owner wants to be selling this object that they most likely don't know anything about, they only want to try and regain their costs of the debt/use of storage facility/etc.

It seems like on DoA, we always a bunch to quickly point out that doll owners should keep real life taken care of and choose it before dolls, so I'm not sure how to feel about those who let their doll purchases run away with them. I imagined anyone would hate to essentially benefit off of someone who became so engrossed in dolls that they forgot to pay their rent/utilities/etc, but sometimes sales from the DoA marketplace list scenarios similar to that for why they are selling dolls in the first place.

 

Are you familiar with the concept of "unclean hands?" If you try to solve a legal problem through deception/vigilantism/whatever, the law is a lot less likely to help you out if your attempts are unsuccessful. Solving problems through scamming just doesn't seem like a wise idea.

 

Well legally, that doll is never rightfully yours since it wasn't the sellers to legally sell.
I know if I found out it was a stolen doll I would definitely get in contact with both the original owner and the police/whichever law enforcer is appropriate for the sellers location. Likely the doll would be confiscated by the police and then released to be sent to its original owner.

However, I'd be out of pocket and depending on the doll, that could be a lot of money. Sooo, I suppose I would HOPE that some sort of reward would be offered by the original owner and I (and hopefully the original owner) would certainly be hounding the seller with whatever law enforcement I could get hold of at my back which would hopefully lead to a conviction and the chance to sue their ass.

Bottom line, if I were the victim of having my doll stolen and sold on, I would hope that I could rely on the mercy and good will of other doll collectors who could empathise with that pain.

 

But then it isn't a stolen doll. If someone buys dolls and gets into serious debt and then has their dolls repossessed because of it, the doll is not stolen, they've legally lost possession of it.

 

Ugh, this debate is making me really emotional. The thought of being in this situation is so horrifying.

I think its even worse if you (like me) aren't independent of your parents yet.) As a teenager, I can't imagine how badly my parents would react. They would force me out of the hobby and never want to hear anything about it ever again if I lose 1000+ dollars and police get involved. (I mentioned in an earlier post that I would definitely give the dolly back.)

So, I'm kind of curious, if you were the owner who lost the dolly, and it was returned to you, what would you do? Would you consider re-compensating the honest buyer (who returned the doll) in any way?