When does a large collection become hoarding?

Moronic might have been a little strong, but I'm really tired of this obsession with psychoanalysing other people and trying to find ways to define them as hoarders or otherwise mentally ill. I think I should probably have made it more clear that it's not the idea in general of using the language a person uses to describe their possessions as a criterion for diagnosing hoarding behaviour, but rather the idea of doing it without further context for why they describe them in that particular way. Sorry for coming off the way I did, but I am absolutely weary of all of the seemingly constant attempts to paint any group of people within the hobby as being somehow weird, wrong, or unbalanced.

I know it was just an example. The problem is that that statement seems to be assuming that an individual, like in the example you gave would be unable to both make the broader classification of X company and Y company and subclassifications for mold name, release version, and other smaller differences. That's what I'm calling stupid-the idea that somehow, someone saying, I have A, B, X, Y, and Z dolls must necessarily NOT be able to also say I have 3 dolls from this company and two dolls from that company. Perhaps some people can't. Most people can. I haven't actually seen anyone who can't talk about their seven different version of doll y without still being able to acknowledge that they are all from company z.

I honestly am not altogether sure that the same criteria can really be applied in the same way for, to go with the example in the article, yarn and dolls simply because there actually are so many dolls whose differences can be fairly subtle. Of course, if someone is completely unable to consolidate subcategories-say, "Elf El", "Dreaming El", "Chiwoo", "Elf Chiwoo" and "Shiwoo" into "CP dolls", then yes, there may be a problem. Without evidence of an actual pathological inability to do so, though, the assumption can't be made that they are not simply describing their dolls in that way because they choose to. Applying criteria which are relevant and useful in one situation to an entirely different situation is not necessarily helpful.

I'm at least as much at a fault there, so again, sorry if I came off as a little more aggressive than I really meant to be. I tend to be easily irritated when people appear to be speaking for how all collectors think or behave without acknowledging that not everyone thinks the same way. "Collectors do X", "hoarders do Y" may be fine to say in specific situations, but I do not feel that this is one of them, which is what I took issue with.

(Psst, the writer there is a woman. And I never said that she nor anyone else was stupid, just that the idea of judging or making assumptions about a person or their collection based upon that one thing was, which I will stand by. )

 

Being unable to categorize effectively is just one facet of the hoarder mentality. And, it may or may not be a characteristic of any given hoarder; simply a trait that has been observed in many, but not all, hoarders, coupled with a slew of other deviations from the 'norm' (whatever that may be).

The yarn hoarder in the example provided may not have proper organizational skills. However, what about other types of hoarders? Say, those that hoard food - expired, rotted, insect-infested food. I wager that their mental profile will be somewhat different from the yarn hoarder, though, of course, they will have things in common.

Let's take the example of hyper-categorizing dolls that was provided. Each doll was described individually, siting its distinctive traits. Does that necessarily exhibit lack of organizational skills? Not necessarily. Collectors are very interested in little details, which is why companies have no problems selling the same exact sculpt, but with different ears, a different face-up or in different resin colors. If BJD collectors were not prone to notice little details, such releases would not fly with customers. Thus, it stands to reason that it's perfectly acceptable to describe your three Els as 'a vampire El, an Elf El and a standard El' vs. '3 Els'. The former offers more information, while the latter gives a quick overlook.

Finally, some fields, especially in the realm of science, require an individual to be able to classify in very specific, numerous, and, often, incredibly similar categories (stereochemistry comes to mind) to be successful.

As far as the question of the beginning of hoarding and where does it start, I have no clue. I am sure there's research available on the topic, but I doubt many of us here are qualified to answer that question.

 

I think another element complicates matters when the dolls are described as John, Thomas and Alex. An extra emotional component may make it even harder to group them together as "3 dolls" when they have characters and back stories.

 

I've always seen hoarding as more to do with keeping everything you come into contact with (I know that isn't the same for all hoarders, but its just how I've always perceived it), and to me having a very specific collection isn't hoarding. But then again, I've been accused of hoarding dolls, and I only have six. If they're not taking over all of your space, I don't see it as hoarding. I think it just depends on the mindset of the person who's saying it - your mum probably worries you're using money for food and things for dolls instead (I'm fairly sure all parents do that at some stage, I know mine have!), and she is just worried about you XD I know that sounds really cliched

 

The trouble is, lots of abjd collectors can give lots of details about their individual dolls. Lots of abjd collectors place equal sentimental value and care on both standards and LEs. Abjd collectors relate to their dolls differently from each other as it's a very personal hobby to many people. Trying to apply these specific criteria to bjd collectors is like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole -- it really doesn't work. I can tell you all kinds of information about each of my dolls -- sometimes I might introduce them in groups 'these are my Volks girls, these are my minimees' etc; sometimes I might give lots of info on each one. It depends on the situation and who I'm talking to. But just because I might say 'this is Charlotte, she's a Volks SD Sara, and this is Cáit my SD13 Megu -- oh, and she happens to be on an SD body....' doesn't make me a horder in the slightest. It means I like talking about my dolls to willing listeners. They may be from the same company, but they are quite different from each other, after all.

The article might work better in a different situation than someone who is simply an abjd collector. Also, threads like this look at one tiny slice of someone's life and seek to make broad statements about that person. That's different than having a professional get to know the individual and offer a diagnosis tailored to that person. That's why I really don't like the whole arm chair psychology thing -- it's usually people passing judgment on anybody that does things differently than they do or offends them in some way. Rarely does it have anything to do with the reality of anybody's lives.

 

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope, "An Essay on Criticism" (1709)

 

Strong assertions when you don't know the people or the situation. Tsk.

 

The thing about researching hoarding is that there are so many different views on it at the current moment that people can't really be pidgeon-holed into it without being properly diagnosed by a professional. I've seen people be specific about hoarding and I've seen people be so broad about it that EVERYONE minus minimalists are hoarders. At the extreme ends of hoarding, yes, crap everywhere, feces, dead animals, etc, etc. But, at its base, yes it SEEMS to be an organization problem. But I don't think it's as basic as the yarn example, per se. I think that's just the start of it. Many professionals have stated (so I am claiming NO expertise) that it's when you are completely OCD about organization that you have the potential to fall into the chaos that is hoarding. After all, take a collection and become so OCD you can't even organize it because there's so many catagories and possibilities for where to put it, I could see how that could lead to having stuff EVERYWHERE.

But, of course, that is only one facet. Obsession with acquiring more and more stuff falls into it as well. Also, hopelessness and depression and a heavy attachment to items. If you combine ALL of these elements, I feel you have enough to judge whether or not someone is a hoarder. Just knowing all the tiny things about your dolls does not a hoarder make. Neither does organizing your anything and everything by your own thought process either. It's when it becomes so overwhelming that you lose focus and can't do it and then pile more stuff on top of it that you ALSO are too overwhelmed to put in a proper place, that you may have a potential problem.

Also, it's never just about how MUCH you have of one item. If it were, we'd probably ALL be guilty of hoarding in some form or another. It's about how you keep it, care for it and, essentially, "organize" it amongst a whole slew of other factors. So, to be honest, I wouldn't be so quick to judge someone whether they have 62 dolls or 602!

 

Haha good for you! you should be able to do whatever you want.

 

Every once in a blue moon I find a collector who has a few hundred BJDs and it gets me thinking!
For one, that was a LOT of money. They're probably well off money wise or they worked hard for them over time. It's not unheard of for even a middle class person to invest heavily into a hobby. I mean after all these dolls have been around for at least 10yrs, so I guess I could understand how people can manage to have so many. If I had the cash, I would love to have a lot of dolls. I just wouldn't wanna over-do it because I'm not sure if I would enjoy them as much.

As for being a doll hoarder. The only way a collection can be a problem is if the person neglects their life to add to the collection. They go deep into debt because they can't stop ordering them. And maybe they might quit taking care of their dolls and their home. But they feel good when they get the package.
They know they're in debt, their house hasn't been cleaned for a long time, They're health is in danger -but they can't bring themselves to let go and do what they have to do. That's a hoarder.

It's easy to make jokes when someone has a big collection. But as long as that person is keeping up with their real life, keeping their collection clean and organized and being financially responsible then it isn't a problem and I actually respect them for being so dedicated!

 

As an addendum to my previous post, I'd like to add that hording is less about the number of dolls (or things) a person has than how that person deals with the things that they accumulate.

 

malvagitabella:

I can only speak for myself but that's actually one of my problems.
I always collected things, no matter how old I am, and sooner or later you start to develope some kind of order. You get more and more categories and then point X comes, the time where you have SO MANY options, categories etc. that in the end you don't organize anymore because you don't know how.
I have that right now with pictures.
I have tons and tons of fanarts, screenshots, gifs etc. from my most favourite game.
At first I started organizing them if they are SFW or NSFW and then by the kind of work (fanarts, cosplay, screenshots etc.).
Afterwards I started organizing them by single characters (character A, B, C, D...), then I had folders with couples (AxB, CxB...), a folder for group pictures and THEN the point X was reached.
What should I do with a picture where three characters are in, or four? All the pictures that are more than a couple, but still not a group picture? Should I make a folder for them too? Should I make only one folder for "trios" or should I make single folders for different combinations (character A, B, C; character C, B, D...)?
When should something get it's own folder, when it reached 1 file? 5 files? 10 files?
And then it just got more and more in the unsorted folder and I simply gave up organizing it.

And I have that with a lot of things. The urge to organize it in the end only leads to massive amounts of unorganized stuff because I simply don't know how to organize it anymore, or I tend to shift around things constantly because I'm never really satisfied.




okay, a little bit back more to topic:
I still think it's hoarding when you don't know what you actually have (and not in a case of "I'm not sure how I should split it up or count it correctly), but really a case of "Uff, it's so much I somewhere lost track of what I was actually buying".
Also when you buy stuff without having any actual interest for the single piece in the end, only have unfinished things because of this lack of interest, and when you really don't KNOW anymore that you own some things and just buy, and buy, and buy.
All of these things could eventually happen to a normal person, but I think when they are combined it gets problematic.

I btw have a friend who really doesn't know what dolls she owns...but that's because she's unable to remember names
So she always asks me "XY is my Lishe, isn't she?", not because she's hoarding.

 

I actually worry about this a lot.

While I don't consider myself to be an actual hoarder, I definitely feel the potential is there, just below the surface. I am a "collector" of many things. And I'm most definitely OCD with my belongings (always displayed perfectly neatly, and not being able to display them gives me great anxiety, and if people touch them w/o permission I lose all thought process), Etc. etc.

So far, I don't think there's been a problem. I have enough space for my things, and I annually get rid of the stuff I don't feel I need anymore. But I'm definitely attached to the things I refuse to part with, and the idea of getting rid of them (even if I don't use it or it's collecting dust on a shelf) makes me sick with anxiety. I feel there's a certain pride I have for displaying these things, and to get rid of it is to get rid of a part of me. In other words, I feel strongly that similar pressure of being far too emotionally vested in mere objects, the way a hoarder would feel. The depression I would go through after getting rid of these things would be more than just a little concerning.

Now, would I do this with BJDs? So far, I don't think so. I only have 1 atm, and frankly, they're too expensive to be collecting in the tons. But will that stop it from happening? I can't answer that. My emotional investment with dolls so far has seen to be the worst of everything I collect. I cannot tell you how many stuffed dolls I own. There is something very special to me about them.

Reading this thread, I really hope to stay away from my usual behavior when it applies to BJDs. My mother makes jokes all the time that I'm a hoarder (albeit, a "very clean and organized one"), and even forbids I bring anymore "collectibles" into the house. I think I'd be very depressed to hear I actually was one. Hopefully it doesn't happen in this instance either, or I'd be very very broke and unhealthy for years to come!

 

I saw a post in this thread how someone sees hoarding in relation to dolls if you own every paper ball from shoes, every wig net, every eye box, etc from all of your doll related things. I disagree. I own all of those things... but I only have 2 dolls. I keep the packaging for a LOT of my stuff. Why? Because, thanks to my job, I move a lot. As in every few years. It's easier to move stuff if you have the original boxes it all came in and it's less likely to get damaged. Most people don't keep their TV box, but I have mine.

You probably wouldn't know I have any of this though, because there's a big closet I keep all of these boxes in. My house is probably the cleanest out of anyone's I know.

Anyway, to answer the original question, I know there's some people who have very large doll collections. I have some online friends (never met them in person) that have 20, 30, or more dolls in their collections. I don't really think it's hoarding until it gets to the point that you are mindlessly buying so much doll stuff that you don't remember what you have anymore and it's taking over your whole house. Some people think large collections are hoarding and it's not. Hoarding is a different beast.

 

When you forget you have a doll because you have so many, and when the thought of someone seeing the area that you keep your dolls/boxes/clothing is enough to instill discomfort!

 

I am 20, going on 21 and only have two dolls. I plan to keep the collection small. The most I'd ever own would be 8, but that's it. If I absolutely had to have a doll, which is very rare as there aren't many I like, I might squeeze them in. I'm currently sculpting my own BJDs so there's always that.

 

Hoarding to me is crippling. You cannot function properly in your home because of your hoarding. My sister, though not a hoarder of dolls, was diagnosed as a class 2 hoarder about a year ago. When you walk into her room, there is no room—every inch of space is covered in SOMETHING. Collections and hoards are two completely different things; in a hoard, there is chaos and the unknown whereas collections, such as BJD collections, you know each doll and every belonging.

I do believe BJD collection has the potential to become hoarding, especially if there is such a vast number of dolls that they become loss, damaged, and forgotten in the chaos.

My mother often worries about the collection my partner and I have: in the last year we have obtained eleven dolls. However, we know each by name, their character history, and they are well cared for. Each doll is kept up with regular maintenance and love.

Just be careful not to let a collection become an overwhelming, crippling obsession.

 

A lot of people mention not being able to mention all sculpt names. I tend to forget the original sculpt name for dolls im really, strongly bonded to. Since ive had my Nami ive never, ever though about her as "my IHS Nami".

 

I'm exactly like this. I've also noticed some very strong hoarding tendencies displayed by my dad (i.e. buying large amounts of things only to have them sit around and collect dust, not getting rid of or selling any of the items that aren't being used because he might use them "one day"). Because of this and patterns I've noticed in my own behavior, I keep on the lookout for any hoarding tendencies I might display, and in so doing try to keep myself in-check. That's why I consider it important to sell or get rid of anything that I don't see a current use for.

I also agree with mgfiswin's definition of hoarding- when you can't safely and comfortably live in your home because of all your stuff, that's hoarding. When you can't get rid of something, even something you have no use for, that's hoarding. Having a large collection of dolls where you care for them on a regular basis is NOT hoarding.

OMG I would be PISSED if my mom did that! Especially considering that 1st issues of Spider-man now go for upwards of $10,000!