When does a large collection become hoarding?

Re the actual disorder of hoarding: We live in a capitalist society that encourages greed and untrammelled acquisition... encourages people to take out loans they can't afford, in order to buy larger & larger residences to contain the resultant Stuff... and awards a ton of social status to those with the most & most-expensive Stuff. And then we turn around and react to the phenomenon of hoarding with fear and disgust-- AND have reality shows to shame & ridicule hoarders? I call bullshit.

Even so, most of you aren't hoarders, or even close, so you should sit back and relax and allow yourselves to enjoy your dolls.

... or you might be an artist. Last year the Petaluma Arts Council had an amazing dolls-in-art exhibit, and one of the more abstract pieces was an enormous hanging spinelike construct made entirely out of small porcelain doll heads all fused together... the artist said she just had boxes & boxes of old doll parts lying around for just that sort of occasion. I wanted to go visit her workshop right then & there. =D Another sculptor of my acquaintance regularly integrates doll-parts into his bizarreries, & thus needs a constant supply of such detritus.

Or, you might simply be one of those clutter-collecting people who's waiting for Just The Right Occasion to use this-or-that particular bit of clutter-- at which point you will consider yourself brilliant for not having thrown it away. I'm not one of those weird believers in "if an object isn't used constantly and publicly, it's useless". Everything will have its day. Casual observers may look with alarm at my Halloween bin, & say that I "hoard" bits of costume junk... but who do they come to whenever there's a wig-related emergency, or silly-dress party, or somebody just suddenly needs a plastic axe with blood on it? Me, that's who. Likewise, I'm not "hoarding" my dolls' unused fullset gear, even if it never gets used again-- I'm just saving it until the Antiques Roadshow gets hold of it (at which point it will be the icing on the cake that goes cha-ching).

 

While I'm sure our society does encourage spending - heck, companies employ psychologists to help them make the most of their store layouts - I don't think external forces alone are what create the kind of hoarders we're talking about. Hoarding is in the spectrum of OCD, and scientists have shown that there is a difference in brain chemistry in OCD sufferers. While we are encouraged to buy, buy, buy, that doesn't account for why some people's houses are unlivable due to all they accumulate.

That being said, these shows are created for shock value, though shame and ridicule is a by-product -and not even really for anything educational. Most hoarders, as one of my college professors pointed out, aren't like these people, though these people do exist. I also said in a previous post that we tend to not believe that the media could skew medical or mental disorders, but they can; more than anything (and what I dislike most) is that it does a disservice to people with the disorder, as well as make people falsely label people as antisocial, bi-polar, OCD, or a "hoarder". It gives people faulty ideas about who these people are, and how we should view them.

That's what a lot of hoarders do - though, for them, that moment never comes. If they're not artists, what good is a bunch of broken light bulbs going to do for them, or anyone else? A lot of hoarders collect junk and don't want to throw it out because they worry that they might need it some day. A lot of them hold on to ancient bank statements for fear that the IRS or the bank is going to ask about something from decades ago. A big thing with hoarders is that they fear throwing things out because they might come in handy sometime; they worry that a week after they throw out that statement, something will happen and that bank statement could be the difference between life and death.

 

No, the only ones who can actually go around diagnosing whether one's really a hoarder or not are psychologists and psychiatrists. And if you don't want the stuff, you aren't even a hoarder on the surface.

Hear hear. I personally have given up most of my own packrat ways, because I don't use the things I save for a rainy day, but there are so many people who keep everything and actually use bits of it. Just because it's not all neat and tidy in labelled containers (that are very often sold to one) doesn't mean it's out of control. A packrat can have all kinds of stuff and not have any detrimental effects on his or her lifestyle. I think the idea of someone who keeps stuff has started to get conflated with hoarding because of all the nasty reality TV of late.

BJDdom is a collecting hobby. One acquires dolls and all the assorted bits that go along with them, which can be quite an eclectic mix. I occasionally thin out the clothes and wigs and such, but that still leaves me with tonnes of stuff. And I, and everyone in the hobby, is allowed to have some stuff without it being a psychological disorder, even if it's boxes and boxes.

I suddenly really miss George Carlin . . .

 

Not sure if its hoarding unless you're spending money you don't have on dolls and your home is cluttered.
I have about 19 dolls but they are beautifully displayed so it doesn't look like the house is filled with dolls.
I do feel crowded some times because I like things to be neat and in order in my home. So there will never be more the I have rite now. I'm very strict with my self. If I want an other doll I have to sell one. Up to now I have been able to keep this up.

 

I do not have a problem with hoarding dolls. My problem comes to outfits, eyes, wigs and shoes. I have way too many but i still look for more.

 

I think it becomes hoarding when yuo forget what you have and can't give all dolls attention.

For me, personally, every doll must have it's own space...a bedroom with furniture, clothing and accessories. If I can't give it that, I don't need the doll, because to me, it is not "complete."

I currently have 17 dolls, including the two on the way. My limit was supposed to be 13.....So I do worry about going overboard or owning dolls I don't connect to or forget about, but if I realize I'm not bonding, it's better to just let them go than try and hold onto it.

 

A collector I know wants two of every doll. For instance, she has twin SD17 Reisner boys from the last cruise event. Where are they? In the closet in original packaging since she doesn't like boys. She prefers girls.

That is hoarding - buying dolls to have but never enjoying them in any form. Buying a doll because it's limited doesn't mean it will be special

 

But that is a perfectly valid collector mentality. Some people only buy certain pieces for their collection because they only want certain pieces. Other people derive enjoyment simply from forming a complete collection of a particular item or set or whatever grouping they are looking at. They don't need to do ANYTHING with the doll beyond own it.

A person is not hoarding unless an actual licensed psychiatrist/psychologist actually diagnoses them with the actual mental disorder.

 

This seems extreme to me. Really extreme. Having a big collection does not make you a hoarder, unless it takes up the space you need to live (IE, your dolls are on your kitchen chairs and table so you eat sitting on the floor, but first you need to move some dolls off the floor to clear the space). I very much doubt people can afford that many bjds, unless their living space is very small. I think this is just sensationalism caused by the sudden cultural interest in hoarding.

 

Will you get a major depressive disorder from watching sad movies? Don't think so.

Collecting stuff won't make you a hoarder. A psychological condition called OCD might. And psychological disorders have rarely anything to do with the symptoms an outsider could see and relate to and everything with an underlying - and hidden - issue. That's why it's so difficult for people suffering from any kind of disorder to explain their condition to someone else, even relatives. Because it is not about collecting stuff. It's about an urge, driven by fear, that you cannot control, but instead controls you.

 

I was a big fan of hoarding shows as it does sometimes point out some good things to help organize your things, and while watching them I did sometimes feel like I was one of them because I have some difficulty to organize my things in my room and will keep some clutter for a long time before cleaning it up properly.

But I have never had any difficulty to sell most of my things. Though I do have difficulty trowing out things, if I can sell or give them it is really easy.

The kinds of shows seem to pop out every where and I feel they are making "hoarder" the tag for anyone who as a lot of things that not "everyone" likes.
Why aren't they going after people with 10 real cars ?
Because they're cars, can't really stock them in your house.
Why do they go after people collecting miniature cars ?
Because it's in your house and someone might not like them as much as you.

When does a BJD owner become a BJD Hoarder?
I think everyone who as a collection, of any kind, is a little obsessed by it. Some less then others, some a lot more, but we all still love them in different ways that may make us look different when we talk/write about them.
But when you become a hoarder, for me, is when you cannot control what comes into your space.
Like the OP said, if you keep your dolls in boxes and cannot rememeber what you have, then you are a kind of hoarder.
If your house is crumbling under doll stuff, you cannot even walk on your floor or live properly, then it is hoarding.
I do have sometimes a blank when I try to remember the dolls I have, but it is the same blank if you ask me to name every one in my family. Coincidence, it's about the same number of person/dolls, I have a pretty small family.

Have you been accused of being a doll hoarder, or possibly even thought you may be? and on what grounds?
Not directly, but my close family do sometimes tell me I have too much stuff, that I am osbessed, I should get rid of everything, etc.
I have a single room in my house that is absolutely mine so it is normal that it seems cluttered will all the books, sewing, school and drawing material, dolls, my clothing and furniture that I cannot store anywhere else. In an appartement or a house of my own, it would still seem like a lot if I kept it in the same room, but if I only had my dolls in my room, I would have a lot of space to spare.

When I start to wonder if I am a hoarder, that's about the same time I go through most of my stuff and decide what to keep or not. For the dolls I do not go through that as I only sell them when there's a problem in the character representation or something like that, but I go through all the accessories and clothing, + all the other things in my room. and will give/sell/trow out anything that takes place for no reason.

Right now the only thing I can think of that I am hoarding is the boxes. I have a few in my wardrobe that I should get rid of but I cannot seem to do it, there is always the "what if" linguering. I do not know what I'll do with them but for now they take no space that I can use anyway. And no one can see them! + for me xD

 

Nobody said it does! Hoarding is an OCD branch of mental illness, and no, you cannot catch it from TV any more than you can catch anorexia from reading Vogue. I'm simply saying the hypocrisy is disgusting. We're an acquisition-based society who rewards greed, & then turns around and acts all prim when throwing stones at somebody who's taken it out of control. One could insert the old Bible story here about the sin-free getting to cast the first stone... but I rather liken it to the lesson of Dr. Frankenstein: you don't get to create a monster & then abandon it because it frightens and repulses you.

(But now that I think about it, this is also the same culture that cultivates obesity, via the foods & activities that get pushed on the general populace... then ridicules the obese & encourages them to humiliate themselves on TV for free plastic surgery, and rewards women who vomit until they stop menstruating. Clearly, we love to encourage More-- but when we actually see the consequences of Too Much, we recoil and disavow it. Seriously, what a diseased concept! Bad Frankenstein!)

And it's also what a lot of NON-hoarders do. You can't diagnose anything based on any single behavior. For example, serial killers also put their panties on one leg at a time every morning, just like me. This does not make me a serial killer who's just in denial about her behavior patterns.

(Well, it doesn't necessarily. XD)

My point is people need to relax about sharing some common traits with *gasp* hoarders, because most of us just aren't. There's too much hypochondriacal hysteria around it. Relax and go play with your doll collection.

 

To me, hoarding is like keeping everything for yourself and hiding it from everyone else. To me, its basically being so selfish that you can't dream of letting anyone else even lay eyes on you're un-played with dolls. As long as your collection doesn't interfere with your life, you're good. If you blow money on a doll just to let it sit in a corner along with fifty other unused dolls.... Well, that speaks for itself. You shouldn't let people get to you. Perhaps they're just jealous that you have a fascinating, and creative hobby that DOES NOT include hoarding, when they themselves are hoarders. People are sometimes like that.

 

What I've noticed from hoarding shows, the american one and also a BBC documentary about the condition that was much less about shock value, and much more trying to show you the problems of the disease, and what I found most striking is that it's much more than about collecting or buying lots of things, it's just how difficult they find it to throw anything away (or get rid of in any other way). Either they think it'll be useful, or they place emotional attachments onto every little piece of junk, or for whatever reason.

So my point is really, I doubt you're a hoarder just because you have a number of dolls. What I think is kind of sad is thinking of a couple of BJDs buried under piles of other things, not been enjoyed by anyone for years, dirty and possibly damaged-I think that is probably more likely to happen than a massive pile of just hoarded BJDs. It'd be very difficult to hoard BJDs to that extent anyway-they're way too expensive.

Also consider, I'm sure most people are sacrificing other things they'd like and/or generally being careful with money in order to afford a large collection of dolls, and I think that's not hoarding at all-from what I've seen (I don't claim to be an expert) hoarders tend to be impulse buyers.

 

Not a doll hoarder, even though I have a large collection. It was a relief to read the post by the person talking about the difference between a cluttered house and a hoarder house. It assures me that my mom, sister and I were and aren't hoarders, just collectors. My mom, sister and I do buy lots of books. My mom, sister and I also bought and buy sewing patterns and fabric- actually I look at my fabric collection and think I have a bit much of it, but I haven't had need to buy some for months. I don't impulse buy fabric either. I probably have too many books too, but I don't just grab books and buy them. I evaluate books before I buy them. I do the same for bjds too, if I don't have an idea for a character doll I don't buy them. If I do have an idea for a character doll I will search around for some time for the "right" doll, considering not only resemblance to the character but cost of the doll- which is why most of my dolls cost less than $300, and none over $600. (And that's the SD sized ones) The small part of my bjds that are MSD or Tinies are even less expensive.

 

I'm sensing a lot of "I'm not a hoarder!" defenses in some of the arguments, to be honest, but sometimes in these debate threads they are so "me, me, me" I sometimes have to take a step back because it's not always debate - it's justification of one's actions. I'm not directing this to anyone, but my unasked for advice is to choose to be happy. Collect because it's something one enjoys, because frankly, life is too short to always be on the defensive. I wish someone had told that to me ten years ago.

Stepping off soapbox...

Few are really debating what it is to be a hoarder. Sure, it needs to be diagnosed by a professional, but at what point is it appropriate for someone to seek professional help?

Personally, I think someone could have 100 dolls and NOT be a hoarder and other people could have 10 dolls and be a hoarder. I think, though, it goes beyond dolls and affects all facets of the hobby and how the individual buys things. For example, the collector I referenced above who has two SD17 Reisner's in unopened boxes in a closet somewhere. Her approach is to buy limiteds because they are limited and so, of course, must be better than other dolls. But, not one. She needs two. And, she wants all of them. Where are they? In their boxes in closets at her home and her mother's home. She does the same with wigs. When she buys wigs and in a style she loves, she buys ALL colors in ALL sizes and will buy wigs in a bulk. There is no refinement. And, there is no end. She only wants to have it. And, she can never sell it, because she finds comfort in having it.

The above example is not a "collection". It's materialistic and perhaps a bit elitest, but mostly it indicates a potential to be hoarding behavior since the objective is to buy to have versus buy to enjoy. The individual derives a sense of accomplishment and comfort through the accumulation of things and whether it be dolls or shoes, it doesn't matter. The individual has an innate desire to accumulate stuff. I don't think it's quite hoarding yet, but I think she is approaching that point. My view is that materialism with no refinement of items purchased has the potential to become hoarding.

 

Well, I think dolls are a piece of a bigger collecting habit of mine... Collecting beauty. As strange as that sounds. Luckily it only involves massive amounts of space on a computer (and maybe a few boxes dedicated to beauty magazines)...

I have always collected images of beautiful people in order to create what I think is the most beautiful person.... Dolls come into it when I have become partially obsessed with creating a doll-form (perhaps Minimee-style doll or just a SOOM doll with a nice faceup!) of this most beautiful person. Partially because I'm not the most attractive.

I'm not sure what really classifies one as a hoarder or just an obsessive-ish collector. I would assume when space becomes an issue. With me it is more just the amount of time over the years that I spent collecting. So I would assume that I am still "normal." Though I do have sympathy for people who have such massive collections that space becomes an issue. I don't have the money for it, but I could easily see the same happening to me.

But honestly, I'm not sure how much of it is a "problem" or how much of it is other people not liking some people's lifestyles. I've seen some of those hoarding shows, and honestly, only when you have enough boxes and dolls that it's collecting in piles and you can't really get around... Otherwise, maybe I'm just thinking from my perspective, but I think some of it is just differences in personalities and lifestyles.

 

I think you misunderstood me. It is true, just because a person collects unusual things, that doesn't make them a hoarder. I personally hate the label because people overgeneralize and think that just because a person has a lot of stuff, that they have an illness. I don't want you to think I believe that a person is somehow "sick" just because they have a large collection.

What creates the "illness"--and even I don't want to use such a term--is the fact that a person cannot bear to part with what they have, and even they don't have a reason for it. Most of us will have a reason for our large collections. People like to have a lot of dolls, I collect my old artwork for the sake of seeing how I have improved and where I need to. Collecting has a purpose. Hoarding does not. But even that does not make the contrast any more simple, because it is all a matter of perception.

 

I am not a hoarder but I do have (diagnosed) OCDs and when people throw certain terms around so lightly it is rather offensive to me, because it really isn't something that should be joked about at all. I have never been called a hoarder, because my germophobia and mysophobia are so crippling that my collection of dolls, no matter how large it may grow, would never even draw attention from someone who knew me well enough.

The same goes for hoarding. There is a thin barrier, but many times people with ocds know it is bad for them and know they should stop, but physically CAN'T bring themselves to do anything to remedy it. Many of the people I know with large doll collections don't hoard, and usually keep hobby money separate from their living expense money. A collector may buy a lot of dolls one after another without selling any for a very long period of time, and a hoarder will very well do the same thing. The difference is that the collector can and will part with something if need be, whether it is to switch up their collection or to get money for something else entirely. A hoarder will not, and they will keep collecting because they mentally and physically feel the NEED to, regardless of any implications that come along with it. The difference between WANT and NEED is very distinct.

To put this into a physical perspective, I will wash my hands until they are raw and bleeding and I get severe anxiety attacks whenever someone so much as sniffles near me. I do this because mentally, it makes me feel safer. I KNOW this is bad and that I should stop, however it is hard for me to come to terms with WHY I keep doing it, especially when I know it is irrational.

To refer back to the OP, I don't think a large collection can ever just "become" hoarding. There are a lot of other factors that would have to play a part.

 

^^ This is pretty much my reaction to just about any debate thread nowadays.