When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

Hm. That's a slippery slope. I imagine if a person took the same sculpt and gave them the same backstory, name, and the same character, it could be seen as copying. But the doll and original owner would need to be very well known to prove it.

Say, for example, I got a CP Shiwoo, named him Zyfan, and gave the whole story of him being an elf prince involved with a vampire elf named Karanthir, then clearly I would be copying Am and her crew. There would be no question about it. And people would know, and I imagine a few very well-placed complaints would be given.

But if I happen to have an elf doll sculpt, name him Aidan, and have him have some angsty past and magical abilities--- well, there's going to be about two hundred other dolls exactly like that, if not more. Five hundred if I also give him a boyfriend.

People copy what they like because it appeals to them, and they want to have it too. But unless it's totally and ridiculously blatant and obvious, there's no way to prove it.

 

I'm an older BJD collector and I have a relatively relaxed view of this topic. I once heard Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones say that we soak up everything around us like a sponge...it's all been done before really...and then we just put it out there in our own way. Nothing is truly new. Whether we realize it or not, it's all been inspired by something. Somewhere in our subconcious, it's all been based on the life experiences we've had, the music we've heard, the books we've read, what we've seen and heard throughout our lives, the cons and concerts we've attended, the people we've met. When you've been around for quite awhile, you realize this issue seems like no big deal. However, if you're young, you might not realize this so easily. You may come up with some great idea for a doll and think you've completely reinvented the wheel. And then you see someone else's El with an angsty past and a scar on his cheekbone and a Shiwoo boyfriend, both wearing torn jeans and t-shirts and you're like "OMG, my original idea has been copied!!!" Obviously, your idea just wasn't all that original or unique if someone else could innocently come up with it too.

And on the off-hand chance someone really is so lacking in imagination (or just such a big fan) that they do copy every single detail of your doll down to the very last thread of their very unique clothes, their extremely elaborate and convoluted storyline, their never-seen-before face-up (is that even possible?..I mean, we all have two eyes, a nose and a mouth, right?)AND the completely never-before-known-to-man-on-the-entire-planet name, and then brags about doing so to you and the forum...well, first I'd think, "oh, poor little unimaginative thing". But it wouldn't bother me. I might feel a little flattered perhaps. But why get upset? I still have my doll and I still have my imagination to take that doll into ever-changing scenerios and stories and costumes and original photoshoots over our coming years together. Through my imagination, my doll will continue to grow creatively. And that other person will never be able to keep up with my creativity no matter how hard they try and will just wind up looking like a pale imitation.

 

I completely agree with you about this.
Someone makes me recently notice how a doll of mine was almost "copied" in his look and poses... well as I place the photos of it almost all over the net and I did photobooks too, I am not surprised and neither I got upset... of course a "copy", even if very well done, is always a copy and who did it knows it as I do. At last it could be a nice thing to know that something is so much appreciated to be copied XD (I suppose I can have this idea just cause I don't make money with my dolls - I waste it, if I have to be honest :P )

 

I find it a little hard to make concrete what is and what isn't copying. Some head molds, wigs [not to mention wig styles and color choices, and eyes are just popular. Unintentional twins are bound to happen now and again. ^^;


I also think it falls into the realm of artistic freedom. In art, we all borrow [some go as far as to pillage] some things from artists we admire or view as the ideal. In writing, we might use an adjective or quote from another author for emphasis or merely because we liked it so.

I'd like to give my own experience. There's a user on here who owns a girl SchA and prior to seeing hers I had never thought of SchA [a mold I was already in love in] working as a girl. But it just clicked. I now want my own girl SchA ~ granted she looks nothing like the inspiration. The original had open eyes and a very natural/light faceup where as the one I have in mind will be a modded sleeping head with dark eye makeup. I also prefer the looks of her on an SD13 girl body rather than an SD16 which is what she was on. [I'm considering modding the back of the head so that it's not as bulbous. ] I also sometimes fall in love with particular molds because I see owner pictures with gorgeous faceups. Volks is probably the best example in this. Is it copying if I buy a doll not because of company photos [Volks has atrocious company photos] but because a particular faceup demonstrated the potential a certain head may hold?

Anyway, there's a fine line between being inspired and down right theft; although, this line can diffuse at times. Like, is it alright to ask a DoA faceup artist to try and recreate or create in the style of an official company faceup. Some would argue that it is impossible [it is in some cases] to get the original, so what's wrong with settling with a copy? [I still think that's wrong, but it's a personal choice]

 

Heh, this was an amusing read. But here's a little noise to chew on. I had this idea for a doll where the doll's theme was opium. I would name her Papaver [the gena for the opiate poppy] and she'd be a sleeping mold [there's a mythology regarding poppies and the god of sleep, Hypnos ~ it's an elaborate tale that I'll spare you the details of, so just trust me on this one ]. chose the KDF dreaming cherry, default makeup initially until I could send her off for a proper faceup. I'm thinking pale lips, semi-flushed cheeks and smokey eyes.

A few days ago I came across a modded F03 head named Poppy, I saw the connection immediately. She was named after the opiate poppy, like my Papaver, and was a sleeping head mold ~ thus the Hypnos reference. She even had dark eye makeup semi-indicative of an opiate addiction. I didn't delve much further but it did amuse me somewhat that I wasn't the only one who thought of it. The clothing she wore and her particular faceup/hair/eyes weren't what I wanted for my Papaver, thankfully. Also, I don't think the owner would get the connection unless he or she knew a little about botanical gena. xD

Even though it's not the same headmold, or even the same size of doll, similar ideas do happen and often spontaneously. Especially if it's based on a particular myth, like mine.

 

I'm a mod artist and I recently was introduced to a doll that shared a customized concept that was very similiar to one that helped me make a name for myself. I was a little suprised at first (mostly that I didn't notice it before now), but ultimately not at all intimidated, insulted our upset about it. It's a concept I think that works better for that mold than it's original form...besides my little doll is mine, and he's one of a kind (to me) and first of his kind. I adore the little tyke and can totally understand others wanting to have one like him.

As someone else said it's all been done before, just in different ways.

 

I run into questions like this professionally, a lot. As a doll sculptor or even studio artist in other areas, it gets really very dicey when accusations of plaigerism of work is brought up. So unless there is irefutable proof, it's always best not to ever make the accusation.

I sculpted a doll once that was about 9 inches tall. She was well recieved by my clientelle...But she had full lips and a squarish face and tilted almond eyes--immediately accusations flew around that I had mold reduced a Tonner doll down from the 15 or so inches the supposed original was to the nine inches mine was. Ridiculous!

But it got so ugly, I eventually left the doll artist community where it happened.

The problem here is that beauty is a common concept in a world where there are billions of people, all who feed off communal sources of cultural, visual media. There are NOT billions of kinds of beautiful. So we are sharing a communcal concept of lovliness. Each of us thinks we have our own concept of beauty, but it is sculpted in our minds by a myriad influences that millions of other doll collectors also have been exposed to and influenced by.

Besides which, considering we BJD collectors are working with doll sculpts from artists other than ourselves and often use a common set of resources for clothing, eyes, hair and other accoutrements...nothing we do is really completely ours on a legal level. We can love what we love, and customize it into our dolls. But that doesn't make the images and styles of ours exclusively, IMO. Because it is very possible that our ideas of lovely were influenced by items that we do not hold creative rights to, just as someone who sees our doll and is influenced by them in turn.

To complicate matters, I honestly believe there are only so many different ideas out there...a finite variety of creative applications in any artform. And I believe this limited pool of ideas is shared by every artist.

Point in case, I had worked out a complex story...a character I had been developing for years. I wanted to write the character in a book one day. Then, several years later, a now famous author wrote a story with a character that was so frighteningly similar in background and social/racial heritage that it would be impossible for me to ever write my character in a story now. But we both had the same idea for a character that was nearly identical in all ways. It happens. It just does.

So I would never bother with worrying over whether a fellow doll collector had copied my doll's look. Firstly, they may very well not have. Secondly, it's not like I have legal rights to that look anyway. You can't tell someone that they can't buy the same doll as you, get the same faceup and then dress and wig it the same way. It only escalates from there.

In fact, since the old addage about mimicry is that it is a compliment of sorts...then I would suggest feeling complimented. You certainly know if you see a doll that is similar to yours that you and the owner have like taste...a sure ground for making a new friend. Not an opportunity to call someone out.

 

Its really weird when that happens isn't it. I was trying to come up with a very unique doll for myself. I decided on a girl with white hair and red eyes (and eventually purple streaks in her white hair and maybe one blue/red eclipse eye) but since she would look a bit like an albino until I could figure out a way to get her proper wig and eyes I decided to find a doll with a very pink face up to blend in the red eyes and white hair. I chose cp bory kid delf. and i decided to name her tuesday and she would dress in gothy/punk styles

just when i had the money to get her i found a bory girl named tuesday. she didnt look at all like i had plans for other than she dressed the same way. but still i chickened out. i didnt want the person to think i copied their doll. but i checked back a while ago and it seems they got rid of this doll so im going to go ahead and get my tuesady eventually =]

its not as close to your story but it was weird seeing a punky bory girl named tuesday.

 

ugh . . . this thread is causing my boy to have an identity crisis . . . I admit I take stuff from all kinds of place take it in, find pieces that fit discard parts rewrite and so forth . . . like everyone else. We are all influenced by the world around us. So a bit off topic . . . Star Wars was a huge influence, it got me into art, back in grade school I started drawing by copying star wars worlds. I read the books (and there are lots) and fell in love with a character named Zekk. I kinda adopted him as my own and he eventually evolved out of that world . . . he changed into his own character and has even been renamed a couple times. My art also evolved and now it's what I'm going to college for.

As for the my character and doll plans, I've read enough to know that the green eyed, black haired combination is not uncommon, especially in fantasy, sci-fi, so I'm not worried about how many dolls have that combination. But I did a search of names . . . I don't care if others have same name, but I'm scared of being accused of copying, even tho this character has been with me since way back when . . .

His most recent reincarnation is Zephyr, Zeph for short. It's one of the names of the Greek god of the west wind. There are other dolls with that name (and even a race apparently), but I don't think I will change it. The dolls look very different (I was very relieved not to find a green eyed black haired Zephyr). And the name comes from mythology, not another doll. I chose it because wind is always changing, sometimes so soft as to be a caress, sometimes so strong it tears down trees. Zephyr is bipolar (or something, it changes ). I didn't know about the other dolls before I chose the name . . . and I'm pretty sure many of them are drawing on the same myth as me. . . so I'm not copying them, I'm just drawing on a similar source.

But I know how possessive people can get with their ideas, and how easy it can be for people to find things in your work you never even saw, people have their own knowledge base and while you've never seen it "they" probably have . . .

 

Don't let unoriginality dampen your creative process. My Papaver is staying just as she is; despite her surrogate "twin" roaming around. I'd suggest letting your boy develop organically even if that means re-evaluating flaws [be it unoriginality, a unique sexual preference or a chipping faceup] with a sympathetic eye. I afford these dolls the same sympathy I afford actual people. Which is to say, I don't hold it against a friend of mine if we buy the same jacket coincidentally.

You know what they say, great minds think alike. ~!!

 

The way I see it, is more so than in society the doll community goes through Fads. When a new fad hits, you get tons of similar dolls. Angels & demons, fem boys, cross dressing boys, boy love, are just a few of the fads.
Its when a completely original and unique doll is copied that the owner should be allowed to point a finger so to speak. But I think its up to the owner of the original doll. Some find it as a high form of flattery.

 

I'd be very hard pressed to actually find a truly original doll on the boards.

My own dolls will be goth/rockabilly/deathrock and all of their sub-genres. And their are a few others here with dolls the same. I think it would be a shame if someone would point a finger and try to accuse someone of ripping them off just because tghey both have blonde/goth/ghost/whatever dolls.

No one is so original that they can openly accuse anyone else of copying.

Even if you tell someone, "Hey, I'm gonna make a Catherine The Great doll!" and they also make one who's to say that they copied you and why would you care? Thankfully you can't copyright ideas or we'd all be in trouble!

 

Amen! I want that on a t-shirt.

 

If it hasn't been said already. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. The whole reason people look at owner threads is to see if they like a mold, see the differences a faceup on that mold can make, and see different ideas. I have seen so many dolls I would just love. It is not "PC" to pm someone and say "omg, I love your doll can I buy it" so people do the next best thing and imitate. Just try not to post saying it is your original idea. *Kisses to all*

 

It's not that it's not "PC".

It's very clearly against the rules. And very rude.

 

I think it's kind of a cop-out. Most of the time your doll is your OC. I wouldn't want someone with my OC in their house. It's like authors. They are their characters. I just don't feel right about having people copy other's dolls. (dont hit me >_<'')

 

PoeticSoul - well said!

The idea that this is a big issue or that it even truly purposefully happens (as opposed to a sort of convergent evolution) is a surprise to me. If someone were to copy one of my dolls I can't say I'd be anything other than amused.

But then again I too am an "older collector." (Ouch it hurt to type that!)

 

well, my best friend has a DoC tender yen with a wine-red furwig, blue eyes, this pink bunny hoodie from dollmore and blue jeans, but she never posted him in here.
and then a few months ago i found a DZ megi with the same furwig, some different blue eyes, the same dollmore hoodie and some blue jeans XD
i showed it to her and now she is scared to post her doll in here because the other owner could think she copied her doll >.<;

 

Well, in repetition of a lot of the posts here, it is difficult to have an idea that no one else has and what might look like copying is just liking the same things as others.

An example. A few of us Akando-owners fancied tatoos for our boys. Fine. Muscles and tattoos go well together. Nothing surprising in that. However, three of us had chosen exactly the same photograph as our reference! We had not conferred on this, so no one had copied anyone else. We only discovered when we started posting pictures of our chaps and saying "Hang on! I recognise that!".

So, yes an outright copy, down to same hair, eyes, faceup, character would be rather annoying. However, similar dolls will always appear because we are perhaps more similar in our tastes in this hobby than different.

 

That rings so true for me. For me at least, there are certain designs and attributes that will always resonate, and once I see them, I fixate--When I'm in a creative mood, I go look at tons of other models (of anything, not just BJDS) and form a composite of the attributes I personally like best. I may alter them slightly, but if, for instance, I'm in love with a particular eyebrow shape and texture, I won't hesitate to incorporate it. That said, in my mind, if I'm borrowing too much from a single source (regardless of how little I could ever improve on it), I feel very far from that design/doll/whatever, and that's when I know that it isn't finished. If I let the idea sit a bit longer, usually, something similar will inspire me, or more ideas will come and the finished product will be much more evolved--and consequently, fall a bit farther from the tree. Wow, what a run-on... ^-^