When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

Just out of curiosity (and I'm only quoting you post, [cari], as it was the most recent 'yes, I would confront an owner of a similar doll' reply) - what would you (general 'everyone who would confront a copier' you, here) expect the other person to say in response?

Obviously, if everything down to the very last detail is copied, it's more likely that the similarities are intentional. So the person is very unlikely to reply to you with "Oh, sorry! I'll go and change all those things about her right now!" - they're more likely to respond with "yes, I was inspired by your doll, and I won't be changing mine". Seems like 'accusing' someone wouldn't really be very useful?

Do the moderators of these forums really ban people for 'copying' dolls? If not, what recourse can anyone expect? Aren't you just risking a ban for PM harassment (or don't people get banned for that here on DoA? I might just be used to a very different forum environment... >.>)? What do expect to gain from accusing someone of copying?

 

Can you get banned for PM harassment? Hmm gonna have to check on that. However! That's kinda my basis behind "Be an adult and don't be rude!" cause if someone's going to report you I'd really hope the mods checked the PMs and reviewed the situation instead of just going "Oh you were reported. haha ban hammer!" which I really don't think any of em would do >.> They don't seem like that bunch but! Moving away from if the mods are evil or not (lol) I should probably check the rules again and see if there is anything about this... I would "hope" the copied doll was banned and not the person. I mean till there was solution reached. I put hope in ""s cause I don't actually know how well that could be handled. They would have to review and find proof of who was right and, probably review the PMs and ect.

I answered this question a page back but, cause I'm to lazy to go quote myself, I'll offer up the short version of what I'd hope for.
Which is a mature conversation (that would start out with me asking a LOT more about the dolls back story and really making sure they're 100% the same as to what's knowing about my doll that I think is being copied) and hopefully some kind of agreement about something being changed. What do I expect? A very heavy "Go **** yourself! It's my doll piss off" or maybe something slightly less explicit and probably mods being involved.
From the mods I more expect to be told I'm SOL and byebye but thats a conversation more towards if there should be(or are) rules about copy dolls and how they should be handled.

What I hope for is an agreement on something being changed (them not adding the next tattoo I add to my doll or adding a totally different one or something) and that being that. Hope doesn't always agree with expectations though. Sadly.

 

If someone did copy my dolls, I don't think I'd really care that much, unless they started accusing me of copying from them. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I'd be most likely to laugh it off than anything.
I do understand however that to other doll owners, their dolls and characters are very important and personal to them and so would be offended by someone stealing their ideas. I think when the doll is the same sculpt has the same faceup and clothing, and the same backstory (not necessarily the same names of characters, but the same story in events and character types) then it might be enough to take the person aside in PMs and politely ask them why they are copying your dolls and if they might stop it.

You can't ever make someone stop doing anything though, and even if you ask nicely they can tell you to gtfo and rant about how it's their character, it's all a coincidence, etc (which it could be, as unlikely as it seems). It's the internet, afterall, and people tend to post and say whatever they want.

 

If the doll looks EXACTLY like yours. Hands down. You can accuse them exclusively. I think it's alright to say to your friends during a conversation at lunch, "oh, by the way, this jerk copied off my doll's whole scheme" and then get over it.

I do NOT think it's okay, to go up to the person and say it or to say it publicly or making a big deal like you're loosing tons of money. Even though how much it irks you, you should be the adult of the situation a brush it off.

Besides all the credit the person is getting from your ideas, Take that credit solely. It's your idea isn't it?

 

When two dolls looks exactly like each others, then one is pretty obviously a copy of the other to me... but when they just have occasional similar features, then these are co-incidences...
it's true that BJDs are almost endlessly customizable, but it's also true that wigs and eyes colors are not...
Once a girl claimed that my Dollstown Soph A looks like her (long time before sold) one just because they had both red hair... [different make-up, different eyes, different clothes style] well, that was just ridiculous to me.
And in fact ignore her comment pretending to not get her innuendos... I really didn't want to argue but she apparentely still believes that they look like each others, but hopefully she's the only one who does (together with her fellows I presume) but I go on pretending I'm a naïve who don't get her statements: seriously? just because they are (or were, since her doll doesn't exist anymore) both red-headed? That's annoying...

And I think that many dolls, and Sophs themselves, have red hair.. it's not a reason to claim copyrights -_-;

 

There are a lot of the same dolls and outfits out there in the world. Take my Meigi-2. Loads of people have him. Look at the clothing availiable from DZ. I be there is a Meigi out there wearing the same outfit HID is in. I ordered that outfit and boots for my Meigi. Im not gonna complain that someone else has the same stuff as my doll.

 

Unless you make your doll's clothes and accessories from your own woven cloth to your own specific patterns, there will always be the chance of cross-contamination. If you buy all your doll's gear from Dollmore, a hundred other doll owners will too...if those styles overlap it's no one's fault, it's just that you all liked the same thing at the same time.

There is a fine line between this community innocently influencing each other and flat out copying. There are a lot of dolls with red hair and green eyes out there, heck, I had two myself, but I doubt very much that every one of us who had a doll with red hair and green eyes stole or copied the idea off one lonely trailblazer who came up with that combination first White hair/red eyes is popular, blonde hair/blue eyes is popular... When something is popular it isn't necessarily a case of copying.

In a copying situation I would look closely at clothing, accessories, appearance and backstory *first* and mold-type last of all. There are a lot of skirt-boi Shiwoos on the board, so to determine if someone with a skirt-boi Shiwoo copied your skirt-boi Shiwoo, you have to ignore the fact they both wear skirts and are Shiwoos, you have to look closer. Do they have similar origins or names? Do they wear similar styles and colours of clothing rather than just having one skirt or dress in common? Is your doll sporting a default face-up or a commissioned one? Does the other doll have a unique face-up or a default one?

 

(All yous are general)

To me, it's never alright to accuse someone else of copying. To come extent we ALL copy something, even if we think we're being original, it's hidden in our subconcious.

It's extremely rude to accuse someone of copying, specially since more than half the time, they didn't copy. And anyways, what does accusing someone do? How does it help you any? Do you think they'll just go "Aw, sorry. Yeah, that's right, I copied your doll. =( But now that you know I did I'll just put her away in the bottom of my draw where no one will ever see her again." Yeah... Right. Either way, they still spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on the doll they wanted, even if it was a copy of yours. And they're not just going to change it or stop showing it off just because you confronted them.

It'll just cause alot of unneeded drama over something extremely stupid. Honestly, couldn't you find something better to do with your time then get upset over DOLLS?!

If you want to find something to get upset about so badly go watch videos of people setting kittens on fire or boiling dogs alive, and use that anger to do something useful like petition stronger laws in your area for animal abuse. Not sit there fighting with someone who you've never even seen the face of over the internet. That is just majorly petty and extremely pathetic. :-/

 

In a hobby like this I think there is not much ground to stand on when accusing someone of copying, unless they do something like stealing your dolls character. Which would be similar to stealing a character from a book. Aside from that, a company makes the body, makes the eyes, the hair, the clothes. If someone copies you, not much you can do as all the stuff isnt original its someone elses work.

Sometimes its obvious someone is imitating. Especially when a doll is much more customized (Ie two different eyes, custom face up, rare wig and odd clothes). But still not much you can really do if someone wants to imitate your doll.

If it were much more customized-hand made wig you styled and cut. Eyes you made yourself, clothes you created a pattern for and made just for that doll. All put on a sculpt you made and cast yourself, then you have some ground to go after someone. But right now as customizable and seemingly limitless this hobby is, there is a brick wall there for most participants who dont make their own. There are thousands of DOT sculpts out there, its not hard to start finding similar looking dolls since tastes are likely to be similar. If you like the fantasy DOT clothing style your choices in wigs, clothes, shoes, and a face up are likely to be somewhat similar to another DOT owner who likes the fantasy style.

 

Haha, I have a BBB espree and she's light tan. Another user on here has the same doll, and the default eyes that BBB sends out with the espree that I also had. And then I had a white fur wig and she commissioned me for one too, but I know it wasn't because she wanted to copy me, even though at that point the only difference between the dolls was the faceup, clothes, and mods on mine.

 

Many times, when I first fall for a mold, I want it to have the same wig and eyes as the promo pictures. Is this copying? Most certainly. However, I've never wanted a mold enough when I wanted to use the defaults and it usually takes other pictures to make me want one.

Recently, I bought a Luts Bory girl. There are a set of pictures on flickr of one of these dolls that I really fell in love with. The hair, the face-up, the eyes. I immediately bought dark blue eyes in preparation for this doll. The wig, which Luts still had is stock was also bought.

However, I realized that yes, I would be copying someone else's doll. When I really thought about it, this is not what I really wanted. Yes, I could have just happened to buy the hair (which I loved anyway) and the same eye colour coincidentally, but when I was making an active decision to copy...no, I wouldn't want someone to do that from one of my dolls.

I guess I might be taking it overboard, but I feel the need to alter my plans for this doll. The wig is sort of wavy and I'll most likely straighten it (it was really the bangs I loved), and I will definitely not copy the face-up. By doing these, I am still attributing the doll to the colour scheme I liked a lot without completely copying the doll anymore.

 

I wouldn't be thrilled if someone copied Chocolate, but honestly I can't complain much either... I got different eyes than what came with the kit, and what I would call a 'normal' face-up (no mods in other means, blush, eyeshadow and lips).

Now if the clothing, the way the eyelashes dip into the eyes, and personality was identical... I'd ask questions. Would I call it copying? Depends on intentions... now if it had the same name and same friendly quirks (god forbid similar photo shoots) and the likes, I'd have a tendency to put my foot down.

However, some might say copy-cats are the most sincerest for of flattery you can get...

 

Hey, I'll be doing that too. XD; To be honest, go with it, both of you are also copying something else, so technically you'd both be in the 'wrong' if you really look into it. But you can't really help that you both really like the same sculpt for the same anime character, hell, I might even like that one too, I'm still looking for one for a Shinku.

 

Before you do this, I'd ask you:

How is it harming you, really?
What do you hope to accomplish by accusing someone of this?
What do you expect to happen as the outcome of this accusation?
Have you not heard the saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"?

Really, as someone mentioned early in this thread: in the end, BJD consumers are buying from the same pool of resources, & there are definitely certain aesthetics that are more popular in this hobby (Loli, Steampunk, Victorian, "goth", "scene", etc); there will undoubtedly be a certain amount of overlap occasionally.

Even when it comes down to someone copy/pasting your story & look, I fail to see how this would harm anything. Honestly, I'd almost definitely find it flattering. I mean, think of it: someone thought that your story & the look of your doll were so appealing, that they wanted it in their life! In some cultures, that's nearly a proposal of marriage (ok, not really, but still...).

There is one example I can think of where I think it would be acceptable to call someone out on this. On the Living Dead Dolls message boards, there is a well-known (on the boards) customiser whose work is repeatedly "ripped off" (copied) (& poorly, at that!) by an eBay seller who then lists the dolls as "OOAK" or 'One of a Kind'. In this case, I definitely see how biting someone's style could be seen as more than a bit rude.

In the end, I say, "Beam with pride at the compliment you've been paid. BRAG about it, even!"

 

It doesn't make a difference to me (for me and my own group of dolls) to be honest. There's bound to be cross-over here and there in a hobby like this, but I haven't really seen someone copying the look, character, clothing, photography style etc completely of another person's doll. Maybe I might see it more if I were actually looking for it. I'd love it if some of the sculpts I loved were more popular (so more people could support the artists that created them) and like spamming them when I can. To be honest, I get surprised when people say they like my dolls because I'm not very confident in my faceup skills. I am flattered when people say they like my dolls looks enough to make their own version of them as well.

 

I'd have to completely disagree with you there, starzzz, on the subject of complete story and look biting. It may be flattering at first, until you realize the person is just honestly incapable of making anything for themselves and would rather spit at you than give you an inch of respect. Especially if your story is one that you've had for yourself for years and have been developing into the present day. It's insulting and everything that you ever worked for being used for someone else's benefit is hardly something to rejoice over. That right there is theft of intellectual property. Crap like "imitiation is the best form of flattery" is what allows people to get away with what they're just plain not allowed to do.

On the main topic, yeah, I'd never outright accuse someone of copying unless I really knew what I was talking about. There might be small details that will make me laugh over odd similarities but I'd never call them out on it unless everything fell perfectly into place and the evidence spoke for itself.

 

Well, on this topic... what about character dolls? Isn't that imitation? Aren't the likenesses of some of those characters trademarked? Where is the line drawn, and why is it different? Is it?

For what it's worth, I'm playing devil's advocate here -- I don't find a profound lack of originality appealing, and I have my own thoughts on this stuff. Namely, I don't care about fan or character dolls myself, but would be irked at someone making an identical copy of some original, personal design of my own.

 

I share the same sentiment, surreality. I do believe though that the main difference is that a trademarked, well-known character from a book, series, movie, etc. belongs to a company that earns money. If no harm is done do them on the monetary scale, they won't go chasing down any old person that does fanwork. That's another difference, it's a fanwork, and not someone claming that the character they're portraying is an original work of their own. If a person went around claiming the character Jack Sparrow was their own, I'm sure a lot of people would be telling them otherwise.

It's a respect thing for independent artists and their wishes.

 

I wonder about this myself since I often get an idea for a great cosplay of a doll and then search for it on DOA. Surprisingly, only a few of those cosplays have been actually DONE [or at least photographed lol]. That being said, people can get very similar ideas around the same time as each other, but they should take it in different directions. [For instance, Both "A Bugs Life" and "Antz" came out the same year but they are pretty different]. But in THIS hobby, when a doll has the exact same EVERYTHING as your doll does, it's almost 100% percent chance that that person is using your doll as a template for a "My Twinn" BJD. I think it should be brought up privately and quickly [after really analyzing if it is indeed a copy cat or just a coincidence] just so, if later questioned about it by an interested 3rd party, you're not seething with annoyance and explode on the forums.

And if you're going to copy cat a doll, at least credit the OP with the inspiration.

 

I understand that you disagree w/my post, DT, but I still don't see where the harm is, other than that it annoys you & you find it disrespectful (which I also don't understand).

I think, perhaps, the differences in our POV's might stem from the fact that people come into this hobby for so many different reasons. Personally, I come at it from more of a "fashion doll" sensibility, though I understand a lot of people put a good deal of effort into creating a character & personality for their dolls. More power to them, but that's just not my thing.

Still, there's the question of "what real harm is it causing you?". You mention a trademarked character owned by a company, so let's go with that example. I don't believe that anyone has trademarked the story, look, faceup, etc of their doll. So, if someone who is into BJD's because they like pretty dolls, but they're not so concerned/interested in writing a story to explain why their doll is dressed the way they are, then what does it really, really harm anyone if they copy a look that someone else has done & that they really like? And remember, in my post I pretty much said the only place I'd see this as a problem is when someone is profiting from another's creativity, so I suppose I agree with you there.

I think that the statement of a person being incapable of making anything for themselves is pretty sweeping/oversimplified/etc. Different people are creative in different ways. Some people are good at faceups, others pay to have faceups executed the way they want them done, some people are good at storytelling, others enjoy a well-told story, some people can design & create beautiful clothing, others shop the MP or a doll company's clothing selection....you get the idea.