When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

Right on the money, Trill.

 

I just wanted to add: I've noticed after coming back to this thread, that a lot of people are siting "well, if you've done a really special OOAK face-up, or super special mods etc. etc." as the case in which doll copying would be the most horrendous- but honestly, I think simpler dolls could and would be copied, and it would be just as awful. I understand that people are trying to site the more obvious scenarios where you'd be more able to tell someone had copied your doll, but I just kinda wanted to add that for those of us with simple dolls, it might be even worse- I mean, if your doll doesn't particularly stand out- and then magically, there's a duplicate, it's almost impossible to say : "No way, my doll inspired that!" even to yourself- so you definitely couldn't call someone out on copying in that situation- it's a lose lose.

- just thought I'd put my two cents in!.. again!

 

Yes, I think you are right about the character itself. They are your own creations! I guess I've been looking at it in the physical standpoint rather than the conceptual personality perspective. I totally agree with you there!

 

It's very difficult to decide whether to call someone out on copying or not. Ultimately it has to come down to the owner's discretion. I strongly believe that friends and friends of friends, however supportive, shouldn't pursue this.

Lots of things are simultaneously dreamt up, it's not out of the realm of possibility that I could design a Volks F01 girl with a natural face-up, a pink Leeke wig and pink glass eyes and someone else on the other side of the world could design something similar if not identical. The moulds are common enough for a start, natural faceups are not particularly distinctive, Leeke wigs can be purchased by anyone and pink glass eyes can easily be found.

If my pink girl was a vampire and the other pink girl was a rockabilly sweetheart, then no harm done, no one cries foul. The dolls may look similar but the characters are different...but it's not out of the realm of possibility that both pink girls have vampire characters. Vampires are common enough among BJDs that two people, in complete isolation from each other, could definitely design two character dolls looking very alike with very similar characters...within a similar time frame.

Ultimately, no one is the originator of the idea, so it would be a bit presumptuous of someone to assume that the similar dolls were copies. Copies do happen, but I think simultaneous brainwaves occur quite a lot of the time too.

 

So true Jessica. Also, I don't understand why people are getting really heated about others stealing their doll's "character", for someone to do that you would have needed to share that character. If you are writing these things down and see them as your creative work then everywhere you share your writing, drawing, whatever, put a © copyright line on your work, date it, and point out that you WILL protect your copyrighted work! Be aware that some of this will come under Intellectual Property rather than copyright.

Also be aware that persuing a Copyright/Intellectual Property claim is very expensive and time consuming. But once you have asserted your copyright be willing to back that up by contacting people you think have infringed it. If you are Copyrighting you are being business like and professional, so make sure you deal with those you contact in the same way. Politely!

The fact is we are on a public forum voluntarily sharing our ideas and creativity for the enjoyment of others. We are putting our work out into the public domain which itself risks it being copied (that is not to say I condone it in any way shape or form, I take copyright infringement very seriously). If you are wanting to make a living from your writing, drawing, etc, then I would question wether this is the right place to be airing your work in the first place. In a hobby like this copycats are likely to be people new to the hobby who simply haven't had enough experience to create things from scratch yet. Would you scream abuse at a younger sibling for trying to dress like you, or would you perhaps try to help and encourage them develop their own style?

What I am trying to say to those budding writers and artists out there is seriously think about wether you want your work to be something you share for non-profit enjoyment of yourself and others (a hobby in other words) or wether you want to save it and develop it further and persue it as a career option? If it's a hobby then be lenient to those who admire your stuff so much they stoop to over-emulation and try and help them find their own style. If you see this as a career then be very protective of who sees your work and develop a very thick skin because you will be heading off into choppy waters where the real sharks swim and you will need to be tough!

 

I'm not going to answer the questions of the OP, however I'm going to throw in my two cents worth.
Copying is a very finicky subject. I'm going to make the bold assumption that we are all human, and that quite a few of us are bound to come from similar circumstances as somebody else. This makes it virtually impossible for you to know that somebody copied your doll/ it's character.
Like many of you I like to write. When I was 14 I wrote a short story of very specific events and with a character with a very specific backstory. A couple of years later I read a book that described a story that was so similar to mine that it was spooky, however the book was written before I was born! The author and I had grown up in the same country with the same folklore... but that was about it.
What I'm saying is that unless the person writes you and say: Haha I've copied your doll. Or you can prove that they saw your doll and read your stories before they created their own doll, it's quite presumption to assume that they are copying you.

 

vonbonbon -- it's safe to assume that if people are concerned it's because they do share their characters. This is a hobby that is largely built around sharing our doll activities with other people, so a lot of folks are putting their ideas and creative vision out there for others to see and enjoy.

For many people, pursuing an actual claim, would probably not be feasible. However, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be frustrating and hurtful to have someone steal their character and story ideas. For many folks this is merely a hobby, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. New people/old timers to the hobby...it doesn't matter. If someone is old enough to come on this forum and interact with the community, then they should know better. The analogy of the younger sibling trying to dress like you doesn't work, as this isn't merely the case of a similar style or having the same mass produced outfit. We're talking about completely ripping off someone else's work.

Now I agree that making a big public bruhaha about a possible case of copying is not the way to handle things. Nor should someone make accusations over things that could very easily be coincidental (same wig, same company outfit, etc). However, expecting the original owner to treat a case of actual theft (because that's what it is) as no big deal, is unrealistic and a little unfair when they were the ones that put all the work in originally. Folks need to be levelheaded about things, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't seek to stand up for themselves either.

Well, I partially agree with you in that there are many instances of coincidence and one shouldn't automatically assume the worst, but I wouldn't say that you would never know unless they admitted to it. It depends on how many specific details where taken.

 

This is a hard call. I suppose if it's a doll made to resemble a celebrity or a fictional character, then it would be OK. Dolls created would naturally have similar look, so in this sense, copying is OK. If perhaps you saw someone with a custom doll you liked, maybe the best thing to do would be to contact the owner and ask them about the eyes/wig/sculpt/etc. used and if it would be alright to maybe have one of your own?

But to call someone out in public about ripping off your idea/doll--that seems to be in bad taste. It would be better to handle such issues privately between emails and PMs. You don't want to air your dirty laundry.

 

It is alright if you are under the age of hmm, 6. Then "She's copying me" sounds a bit ridiculous. Of course if the doll were your business(ie you are a designer or faceup artist), that is another matter, but even then a public declaration is a can of worms you may not wish to open.

 

There are no original ideas. There are only original people.
Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

 

I've seen many cases of duplicate characters occur from isolated sources, even when it comes to role-playing, I've ran into users who have characters with stories and features very similar to my own. It's not a case of copying, it's simply a case of having similar interests and therefore similar palettes to base characters off of is all. With dolls, aside from some of the more unusual minimees, we all have a fairly limited palette of doll sculpt, eyes and wig combinations, so eventually duplicates will appear, it's just natural.

Now, if I were to say, spot a doll that I believed was "copying" one of mine, I know I'd PM the user. Most of my doll's outfits are handmade, and I hand-make and style all of her wigs, so I suppose in that sense I have a bit more control over insuring that her look isn't as easy to copy. I can't imagine why anyone would want to copy her( personally, she seems rather plain in comparison to quite a few of the dolls here on the forums, to me, anyway), but I'm sure that eventually I'll be glancing over galleries and find a doll that looks similar to one of my others. Who knows, maybe they can be dollie penpals. After all, just because dolls look alike doesn't mean they have to be angry at each other.

 

Would you perhaps care to elaborate on that a little? Maybe share your understanding of it because just copy/pasting some random quote rarely adds much to a debate =/

Anyways, I'm not sure where I personally stand on the whole thing. I think it can be very obvious where some people might have drawn 'inspiration' and while sometimes it's clearly just that (and we're all inspired by things around us one way or another) there are times when it crosses the line into blatantly just ripping someone elses' idea off.
For example I'm actually trying to decide for myself right now if it's worth calling someone out, she has an MSD who's styling I would personally consider copying one of my boys, they have the exact same wig (not a common colour either, orange fur with white streaks), the same eye colour and I've even seen pictures of her boy in the exact same sweater and beanie combo I've taken shots of my boy in before, it's fairly obvious it's not a coincidence in the slightest but then it's not doing me any harm for her to style her doll that way so is it even worth mentioning? Now if she was trying to claim the character, then I wouldn't hesitate to knock it the hell off. So I don't really know, I suppose it's a matter of weighing up how much it bothers you vs. the drama/headache calling them out might cause...

 

Hmm... I think it's okay to see someone's doll, and then say, "Hey, I really like that doll and want to buy it!", but I do not think it is acceptable to copy the doll's exact appearance by, say, purchasing the same clothes and getting the same custom face-up (If the doll has one), without permission from the person whose doll you want to copy. That is what I view as copying.

I think that you can most certainly draw inspiration from the appearance of a doll, and even if you somehow end up with the same wig and the same doll as somebody else, that is acceptable, but intentionally turning your doll in to some carbon-copy of someone else's doll without their consent is jeopardizing your own imagination, as well as being unfair to your doll, in a sense, because dolls and people are all unique. Even "identical" twins never look exactly alike. However, if you have obtained permission to alter your doll's appearance to make it look like somebody else's, then that's okay. Besides, then your dollies can be twinsies!! >w< (I am so lame... ._.) But even in scenarios like this, you can add something unique to your doll, something that the other doll doesn't have, because, as I stated earlier, no one looks exactly alike.

Not to mention personalities. If you mimic a doll's appearance, even with the doll-owner's consent, it may impact your doll's personality. All dolls are different, and they can very easily be assigned a personality. Copying the appearance of another doll sort of takes away from your own doll's personality--at least to me, anyway.

 

I think something to be kept in mind is that most people on the board have similar interests: fantasy, anime, j-rock, etc. Having similar interests can inspire similar looks for dolls. I've seen many dolls that I feel look alike, but I'm not keeping track of who they or their owners are. I can spend some time going through the twenty most recent gallery threads and come out thinking I saw the same doll three times. It happens.

As a small-scale example: my girlfriend and I are basically interested in the same musicals, same tv shows, same movies, same real life fandom group of people. Of course our dolls dress similar, we have the same influences in our lives! It happens.

 

I'm curious how this boy fits into the discussion:



This is from Dolpa NYC 4 (Dolpa NYC 4 pic thread) & is a relatively faithful reproduction of the Limited Edition "Williams as Mad Hatter" doll (below).



I don't know who owns/created the "Mad Hatter 2.0" doll, though he appears to have been well-displayed at Dolpa. The Volks staff & artists milled about for much of Dolpa & seemed very appreciative of the various customizations that doll owners had undertaken. Of course, I can't say for sure, but I cant imagine they would have had an unkind word to say to whomever created this reproduction, though they may have actually had a legal right to do so.

 

Only thing I can think of would be if someone took the credit for the style of someone elses doll.

And, but more in jest, if they did a better job than me

 

Starzzz, I beg to differ. The image of the Mad Hatter is most certainly not an original one, and I do not think there is any legal rights violated by this other Hatter. In fact I am sure Volks was thrilled to see him. I am curious to know why anyone would see that as in any way wrong?
I maintain although no one else seems to get it that to accuse someone of copying your doll's style is inexcusably childish and ridiculous.
Volks is in the business of selling dolls and doll accessories. To have inspired someone to "copy" the limited Williams seems to be exactly the point, no?

 

Hmm...I wouldn't think someone copied my doll unless they consistantly made the exact same changes to their doll right after I make mine. Like, if I changed my March's eyes from green to red and then they changed their March's to red. Or if I made a dress for her and they made the exact same dress. It'd be a little flattering but mostly creepy. O_o Creepy and sad because I can't sew well and I'd feel bad for the doll!

 

That outfit is not a personal recreation, however, as Volks released that Mad Hatter set at the recent Kyoto owner's event in March to purchase. The Red Queen costume that the LE Cristal wore was also offered for sale. So really, all this person did was buy the outfit that they sold themselves and put it on their personal Williams.

 

I tend to agree with you here. I definitely know the Mad Hatter wasn't an idea or image original to Volks, but I was thinking more in terms of the specific costume design of the LE Williams that this guy is wearing.

I'm trying to understand why some people would take imitation so personally, though. It seems like some BJD Hobbyists see copying or imitation as some kind of Professional Insult, but I try to remember that not some people take their dolls way more seriously than others. Personally, I still think I'd be more flattered than anything if someone copied the look of one of my dolls. I don't think I'd ever be in danger of being accused of copying, though, since--even when I see a doll I really like--I often find myself thinking "But I'd want the eyes to be a different color, & the lips would need to be done differently...and that eyeshadow has got to go!", so ultimately it would be a different look.

Ah, ok, this makes much more sense. I didn't realise that it was at all possible to actually get the Mad Hatter outfit prior to NYC Dolpa; I figured we just had a tailor w/lots of time & resources on our hands! I mean, have you ever tried to match fabric? I dunno if that ribbon for his cravat is just really common, but that alone had me impressed w/the level of matching going on!