When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

@Taco, oh, don't worry, i intend to ask the user in question before doing anything like this. I just thought it might be an interested question to point out since it's in a similar vein to copying. Also, I thought that it would bring the topic away from the Leekeworld/D.o.D. issue, which frankly doesn't belong in this thread.

How would someone feel if they sold a doll only to find the buyer has kept the same character that the doll had before? Would that be considered copying, would it not? I'm curious about people's opinions.

 

I don't know...maybe if someone has gotten really specific in their design and character and someone makes a totally obvious copy without giving any credit? Overall, I don't think it's such a big deal. In my dolly-life, people have bought same outfits, same wigs, gone to get similar face-ups from same artists... I'm happy for them and for the business they bring to artists I love. I adore the way my dolls look; if someone else loves them too and wants to find the same look to bring home to live with them, I completely understand. Artistically, they won't take the same photos as me or think of them the exact same way in their mind and heart.

 

In that case, LordNoir, I would ask them if it was okay to do that. Especially if they might be reshelling the character and keeping the backstory they had already made for this doll. In this case, while they would be different doll molds, they may want to keep the characterization to themselves. Yes, there is a lack of 100% original character ideas out there, but it still may be unique and special for them. I know for one I wouldn't like it. But, then again, I am not making stuff up on the fly for my dolls, I am basing my dolls off my pre-existing characters that I have been dealing with for over 5 years, some for longer. So, in my opinion, it depends on how close and personal they are with their character information. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Whilst I'd feel a little odd if someone had a doll *very* similar to mine, if I sold one of mine on and the new owner decided to keep his character and look the way it was, I think I'd actually be pleased. Especially if I wasn't re- shelling the character into a new body. It would be sort of like they "lived on" with someone new, and went their own way in the world without me.

But thats just me and I'm weird.

 

Thank you so much Kiyakotari, for linking to this story, it was a great read, and put's words to my own feelings about this whole matter. And if you don't mind me following suit and quoting a part I really thought was interesting. "We need selective voluntary amnesia if Discoverers of Art are to continue to work without psychic damage....Because one day the infinite number of monkeys will have nothing else to write except the complete works of Shakespeare. And they would probably rather not -know- that when it happens."

 

I've thought about making a doll look like Sakuya from Okami. I guess it could be argued whether or not it's copyright infringement, but I've seen people make dolls look like and name them after anime/game characters before and wouldn't call it ci.

 

Echoing this. Absolutely wonderful -- and very apt.

 

Totally agree (with leeke dod drama and unique doll ('s character))...hehe... Yup, it's a customized doll...why would we want to copy another doll? besides, no matter what, the doll is always different on each owner...Unless, perhaps, they are doing it in purpose (photoshoot...tring to make it like twins) or (sorry) they are just lack of creativity to make their doll unique...

I can't really accuse someone copied my doll etc...i put it this way, let's say, we buy the same wig, clothes, shoes from dollmore or luts...those are not unique. Perhaps, limited but not unique....unique is ONE. Unless, you create your own doll's clothes, find the fabric combination yourself,that can be unique (same as shoes and clothes and other stuff...)...I sew, and i love combining fabrics...i think for certain kind and pattern of a fabric, we have to import it and it's not easy...it's not cheap either...it's another effort to do...and not all people want to do that...Face-up, I don't know...I don't think, it can always be exactly exactly the same as it's done not by a machine...
Myself, I don't know, though i love for example, a doll face-up but I don't want it on my doll (the same doll)...I paid face-up artist pretty expensive (including shipping, etc), why would I want 'things' that are not unique?...Same price, of course, I want different unique look...Sometimes, I use eyebrows reference from the portfolio of the artist but the whole look, color, etc is different (I use the eyebrows reference because it's hard to explain an expression with word...so, picture is better...)

I would think positive before accussing someone, like oh perhaps, that's coincidence (unless, it happens more than once...haha...now, that's the time you have to question it)...Unless, you are pretty pretty super pretty sure that your doll is unique like Lizotek's

 

I actually must confess I take some of my inspiration from looking at other people's dolls. It's how you can tell what you like/don't like on a doll. I gave my Hikaru pink hair because I saw a few Elena's who looked AMAZING in it. I want my Kun to have punky makup because I saw someone who had a Kun that looked really good that way. I don't want to copy other people, but I like some things they do. I won't have my dolls exactly the same - makeup a little different, different eyes, wig styles, etc, but I do take inspiration from others.

 

There are only so many themes and permutations of a particular doll sculpt, which is why similarities will inevitably show up. Amongst collectors who are members of the same forum, the use of the word 'copy' is rather childish and inappropriate. To accuse someone of 'copying' implies wrongful appropriation, as in copyright infringement for example, occurring when copyrighted content is used without permission. Taking inspiration from a fellow collector's doll - close imitation as other may call it - cannot seriously be regarded as 'plagiarism'. Even in the instance of a doll company 'copying' from another company, unlawful appropriation is difficult to establish provided evidence of moulding is found.

 

I dont think, in all honesty I would care even if they were the exact same, but it would still be my character and hell they could never copy his personality anyway there bound to be dopples out there!

 

this has probably already been said, but there's a certain point that "copying" is just a coincidence...unless its like, EXTREMELY similar. like, same hair style, eyes, makeup, even exact clothing and name, that would be too much to be a coincidence! DX
but like, you can't create something completely original, same with art/writing etc....so idk. i've only really dealt with this in the art world XD;

 

As an individual: In the past, I had received messages regards to them using the close up pics of my dolls' face ups for "copy"/"reference" and it did bother me for awhile in the beginning (as they have politely approached me privately, I too chose to inform them that I would prefer that they do not use my pictures). When I was less involved in the hobby, I tend to not mind as I am busy with other things in my life. I know personally that some even mind that BJD clothes are inspired, even if you drafted/sew using your own patterns out and use similiar material etc. I really find it amusing that they can take it to that extent.

As for doll makers/companies: I am totally against direct recast (meaning they use an original piece to make molds of the same head/same body/same size) meaning they did not sculpt the mold from scratch. That one directly hurts the actual originators/doll makers (like with foreverdoll and volks/volks and taobao's blatant copy). After a long hiatus away from this hobby, I came back and look through the news section, I can really see some parts of new dolls looking similiar to the older popular molds. I can see XYZ company's new doll's eyes/nose/mouth/face shape similiar to ABC's older dolls' sculpt. Let's face it, existing doll companies/doll makers need to come up with new ideas/concepts for new releases to attract customers, but I have seen many times the conceptual designs (with some differences) being used over and over again. IMO, it is difficult to find something that is "originally" new these days.

 

I like looking at other people's dolls and how they style them, that's what's so great about this hobby--it's that you can customize your doll however you want. I draw inspiration from others, but I do what I want. I don't think originality truly exists, especially when it comes to art, and I consider doll collecting and customization to be in that sort of category. I've been "copied" so much I guess I don't really care anymore.

 

Well, my sister once heard somewhere (I can't remember where....>.<) that if something is 20% different, then you can't be sued or get in trouble for copyrights. so, I wouldn't get upset about a doll looking similar to one of my own dolls unless it was drastic. But, that said. I'd have absolutely no problems if I were to see a Luts KDF almond with a red Luts wig in the same style as my own, and dark green eyes. Nor would I get upset if that same doll were to also have a Luts blond wig and Luts swirly eyes, because... it would be so pointless to get upset about it. They're all basic doll items, Hay, I'd even be fine if they happened to be wearing a bloomer and tank-top set! because it's just such a basic thing to see. Someone saw the sculpt on the Luts site, purchased him, and happened to get those accessories and dressed him in his nightclothes. No biggie.

HOWEVER, if I were to get, say... A KDF Ani girl, and I gave her Zombie mods and put burn scars all along her left arm and gave her... a pink Fairyland mohair wig and mismatched one green Fairyland eye and one swirly Luts eye, installed Rainbow wings on her back and named her... Kotatsu Holiday. Then later found someone who had purchased an Ani girl about.... four months after I'd spammed DOA and DA with pics of my doll. Gave her zombie mods, mismatched eyes, a pink fairyland mohair wig, burn scars on her arm, and sparkly wings, named Halliko. THEN I'd get a '>.> WOT?!' moment and contact them privately, asking them where they'd gotten their inspiration (but only after I'd gotten past the loud laughter of 'who-the-heck-would-do-that-sort-of-thing-other-then-me?!' XD) but I'd only actually start to get irritated if they had a similar backstory to my doll's, my backstories aren't really unique or anything. But I like and take pride in them. so I might be a bit blunter with them if that were the case.

That said, if one of my dolls backstories was to be published in a book, then I would have absolutely no ground on which to get upset if someone used the character to create a doll. as... you know, if it's a published book, then I would would not have any legal copyrights that would let me say 'Oy! That's MY character, YOU can't make a doll that looks like them just because you like that character in the book.' lol that would be stupidly pointless.

...Sorry for the random, long and somewhat pointless post.

 

Well, any fandom material is technically a copyright infringement. But by common sense, most companies do know that their material are better known and promotioned by what the fans do. So most of the companies allow these things cause honestly....why would they want to prohibit the fans from showing their love for their material?

[edit]
But just to add something to the debate, fandom can be very tricky.
Many cases, a fan can cross the line but having just -too much- inspiration and by that not making differences enough to the original piece, and just proclaim it as his/her own.
But I particularly wouldn't few bad about it for 4 reasons:
1- If someone is young or new to the world of character creation, it's a known that the inspiration near the copy is going to happen. We all did it in one point of our lives, we just don't realize it (until we think about it really hard.....sometimes not so much XD).
2- the person copying my doll is not getting any profit with it (but if there is any $$ involving that matter, THEN I believe it would be something to worry about).
3- having my doll character (I mean the concept, not the doll sculpt) being copied would only hurt my ego (if I really cared).
4- there are people with no good intentions everywhere, so it's better just focus in what I do good and leave the rest with the copy.

I have said it before many times to other people and I had some responses like: "NO! These people are the worst kind! They must burn!"
Although I agree that these cases are horrible (and yeah...why not burn?! XD *partially kidding* ) , I think it's a waste of quality time that people could use by keep on doing good stuffs with their dolls (not just dolls, but anything else).
And even use this as a fuel to challenge yourself.

Joe Madureira (an awesome comic artists, for those that may not know) was copied for his entire carrier by many other artists by the letter. He took the challenge and even defied them XD

The thing is: If you know you are being copied, then you must know you are good, but you also must always do better, until the copiers won't be able to reach you.

 

Sadly I would disagree, and given how many people seem to agree with this, I will probably get some fire for this. Unfortunately, if you sell your writing to the public, you should expect fan service. How much money did Anne Rice make with her books? How many people fell in love with her characters? We are all natural story tellers of one sort or another, and you cannot put a cap on human creativity. It is still rather early for me here, and I am having trouble explaining this well, so I will probably try again later.

 

Thank you for this lovely reminder... It is exactly what I have known for a long time, and unfortunately do my best to forget. The story depressed me, which is odd, given I love to simply reinvent from the past, rather than try to create anew anyways.

 

*thunk* WOW! I've been rendered speechless and when speech returned I could only shout "YES YES YES!!!" Thanks for this, Kiya!