When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

I was recently accused of copying someone else's doll's fantasy blushing...... Honestly I'm not sure what to think because I found out about the other doll very soon after I had finished painting the one for my friend...... And they are very similar, but they're also pretty different if you get past the basic color scheme. I think anyone in their right mind would be a little suspicious, but it was just a bad coincidence, people come up with similar ideas! What WASN'T okay for me was that the person who accused me is the doll's owner, but not the person who did the blushing, and they openly said 'u copied this (link)' on my aesthetics thread! I don't know if I have the right to report the comment or not. It's rude, but sadly, I don't really have any way to PROVE I didn't copy the other doll other than the differences between the two....

 

Depends on the person and how you take stuff.

I personally don't mind when people take inspiration from the things I do. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all. In any artistic field things change and artists rely on other artists for feedback and reassurance and inspiration. There is a reason why it will seem that all fashion designers came out with the same style at one time or why a certain color was popular on all runways. Or why there will be a whole movement in a style of painting... It's not like Monet came out in the 1800s and then Renoir came out in the 1880s. They all flowed together at the same time.

Now of course using the same example with the Impressionist artists... they all followed the same art movement but each one had their unique flavor. Monet is not Renoir and Renoir is not Van Gogh. So I think it is ok to draw inspiration from others but people should make it their own. Add their own flavor to it. In the end it will fit a lot more with who they are.

It is rather unfair when someone TOTALLY steals your ideas but that is aslo hard to prove. People do think alike. Gosh, when I first started looking into BJDs I thought I was sooooo unique that I wanted to sew historical costumes for my dolls. Pssshhh... almost everyone sews for their doll and there are plenty of historical dresses and outfits for BJDs.

On a totally random note, and pertaining to people who tend to say "THAT is MY style" or "They copied that from ME!" I had one person get angry at me and said I stole their haircut. Umm... it is called a Pixie cut and it has been around since... lets be conservative and say... 1940s? How can I steal a CLASSIC haircut especially one that was created before me or the other person were even born? Yeah, put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

I believe it's pretty hard to prove someone copied a doll. No one has full rights to a said color/style or both on any particular doll mold or other wise. And usually calls of coping an image like that are petty.

To say someone copied your doll, I believe you had better modded the life out of it in a way that would not be easily copied and that is not even remotely humanoid or based on anything from sci-fi anything, or movie, cartoon, comic, mythology, nothing, so not even an injury type mod. And then person you are accusing would have to have done the exact same thing.

 

First off, publicly accusing someone of copying you is bad form, no matter how similar the two dolls are. That's the kind of thing that should be kept to PMs.

Personally, I wouldn't be bothered at all if dolls popped up that were very similar to mine. Chances are the similarities were accidental, and even if they weren't, I don't really mind if someone liked something I came up with enough to want it for their own. If the similarities got kind of extreme though, like if you couldn't really tell the two dolls apart, that would start to bug me just a little, especially if my design were really detailed and unique. But in general? Not an issue.

That being said, for the most part my dolls are based on original characters of mine, and the overall character designs for these are something I feel possessive of. So if someone had an 'original character doll' that not only looked the same, but had the same personality and a similar backstory/name/universe so that they were essentially copying the character rather than the aesthetics of the doll...I'd start to get miffed, and depending on the situation, I might PM the person. Probably not though, because what are they going to do? Redesign their doll and completely discard the character? I wouldn't want to force someone to do that, even if they had copied me. It's really a messy situation with no winners, so I hope I never get stuck in it!

 

I think that's an interesting question. I think it also depends on how your doll looks. A victorian vampire, a geisha, or a punk rocker are kind of common things, and it's hard to take seriously a claim of copying, unles you say, had a custom piece for them that was very detailed. (For example perhaps you had a geisha doll with a kimono you made yourself and it was very unique... and then someone else shows up with a very similar kimono).

But I think there comes a point where it's harder to say it's just a coincidence. For example, I have an angel character who is my namesake. He's blue-eyed with curly blond hair, likes baking, and wears aprons and pretty colors. I hope to make him one day-- but because he's got a missing eye and alot of scarring around it, he'd need some modifications. I also already know his eyesocket would need to be left open and filled in to create the hollowed out look I imagen for him.

If I made him, and then a few months later saw someone do something very similar (eg an angel who liked baking and had a missing eye with heavy scaring), I'd certainly raise my eyebrows.

The same I think goes for characters with specific sets of scars, UNUSUAL makings or makeup (Sorry... but having just purple eye-shadow doesn't count as unusual in my eyes), or other heavy modifications... then you can be a little more justified in saying someone 'copied' you. But I think when you have a natural looking doll (eg one that falls into line with what a lot of actual live people might dress as/look like), it's a bit silly to call someone out. Freckles and green eyes happen in real life, and some people like them. Half-fish vampires with fangs and gills in their upper arms and webbed toes and three sets of horns and tattoos of men punching dolphins are a bit different than that.

 

@swivelchair I'd report the comment. It's meant to have a negative effect on your sales, and you don't have to prove you didn't copy. They are accusing you, the burden of proof is on them. Besides, reporting it can't do any harm, the mods can decide and it's not like they'd penalise you for reporting a comment that is undoubtedly rude, if not downright untrue

 

I can understand being inspired by a certain design, color scheme or outfit. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking a person for permission to use their idea. Let's say you really like the design of a dress that a person made from scratch. It's perfectly ok to ask them if you can make a similar dress, and then ask if you can post pictures of your new dress online ALONG WITH a disclaimer saying something to the affect of: Original design by XXXX. Imitation is the nicest form of flattery!

Example: I used to post all of my non-commissioned artwork on deviantart. One day I got a message from another member, saying that she just got a tattoo of one of my designs! She sent me a picture of it and everything, and thanked me. I was shocked! This was the first I had heard of it. Not only had she taken one of my designs that had a watermark on it, but she had it permanently marked on her body without my permission. The only thing I could do was voice my displeasure. Had she of asked me ahead of time to use my design as a tattoo, I would have said yes. Needless to say, from that day forward I have not posted any new original pictures. If people want to see what I have, I either show them my portfolio or email them individual pictures. I have everyone up for viewing on facebook, but that's visible for friends only.

Case in point, anything you put online can be copied to some degree. If a person is really that worried about having a design being copied, just don't post it online. But, what's the fun of the hobby then if you don't share it? I guess the bottom line is that it's alright to be inspired by other people, and if you really like another person's design, just ask them for permission to use it. Make sure to give the original creator credit, and never sell something that isn't your original design unless you have permission to sell that pattern.

 

i think when it is ok to accuse someone that they copied a doll is that it has the same mold and name and clothing i was looking at commisions in the marketplace and there was this woman that wasdoing fantasy airbrushing on a soom doll and this other person found the same mold of doll and the same airbrushing collors. i dont know but why is a such a big deal i whanna know why yes i think it would be weird to ee a person with the same doll as me but really they copied me but why is it such a big dea in the bjd community?

 

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Yeah, it might be awkward seeing an exact clone of *your* special little snowflake, but--hell, even people​ wind up resembling one another in eerie ways. Unless they're somehow making money off the doll's sense of character that was "borrowed" (putting it lightly, hahaa) from yours--I don't see what sense there is in getting worked up over it. x:

 

Quite frankly Swivelchair, I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about. Black and red is NOT a unique colour scheme, if anything it's a very common one so it's not hard to see that someone else would have the same colour scheme. Fantasy blushing is all about blending colours and they're not even remotely identical - other than they use the same black&red theme. Honestly, if we're going to start accusing everyone who shares the same colour scheme on their dolls as copycats then I'm leaving the hobby right now because that's just too laughably ridiculous

The way I personally see my dolls, and potential copying (pfffffft as if) of my characters/looks is just this - If I thought of it, what's to stop someone else thinking of it too? I don't believe that every idea is unique, nor that only one person can think of something. So by all means, if someone else wants to have a little red haired, green eyes Arabian vampire character or a psychic French noblewoman with blue hair... be my guest Just about everything's been done before, one way or another, and just about everything will be done again. It's NOT the same as copying artwork, since there will always be differences - unless of course your doll has a default face-up, company wig and dollmore clothes. In which case you can't exactly blame someone for having the same tastes as you >.> Well, that's what I think anyway. It's different if someone, say, identically copies a face-up (although even then, I'd be more flattered than outraged) or worse, an actual physical doll (i.e. recast) but just the look? Seriously? *wanders off chuckling to herself*

 

I'm a newb to all this, and this thread has definitely given me some things to think about. I hadn't previously realized how many BJD collectors consider themselves to be artists and their dolls to be works of art. As an artist (in other fields) I can definitely say that it's a definite violation or artistic integrity and intellectual property to copy someone's art and present it as ones own, or use it to one's own profit. There are reasons you cannot, for example, paint Mickey Mouse on the wall of the daycare center.

But then I also consider, that if the person doing the copying does NOT consider themselves an artist, but is merely re-creating a doll they have seen and coveted then it is in legal and moral essence no different than if one were to Paint Mikey Mouse on your own child's bedroom wall. However in these cases, said coveter should have no problem admitting to the origin of their doll, so long as the asker doesn't ask hostilely.

I'd pose a corollary question, since I'm new to this... would the compunction against copying extend to a taboo against say, asking someone "Oh where did you get that [prop/dress/wig/shoes]? I would love to have one for my doll."

8^)

 

@taltosgirl It's a big deal to some people because they see their dolls as specific characters and works of art, and therefore feel that if someone did an incredibly close copy, that person will have stolen something that they valued very highly. Like if you did a drawing or a story and somebody traced it or re-wrote it with slight changes. However, obviously it's not just blushing colour schemes or general stuff, it would have to be extensive copying to have this effect - so using the same extensive tattoos or mods, or character AND appearance (if those are unique, obviously goth vampires are going to be common).

 

I don't think you can compare stealing a doll's image to mickey mouse. Mickey mouse was made to be mass produced and was made to be an entertainment product. It might have started as Disney's little baby, but it has grown way beyond that. But many owners see their dolls as their creative babies, their own personal release.
People want to feel special and a lot of people try really hard to get their doll to be unique (although there is no such thing) so when they get copied, it's personal.

As for the "where did you get that wig" part, I get those PM's sometimes, and just answer them. Just because a doll has the same dress or the same wig doesn't make it a copy yet. It just means we have the same taste. Now, if they were to ask where I got my doll, faceup, wig, shoes, eyes and everything on it, I would be a bit suspicious to be honest.
But in general I am not against telling people where I get my stuff. It's not unique stuff made just for me, so what would be the point of hiding it?
Most of my dolls wear wigs and dresses that are mass produced (although some are limited) and I give my own touch to them to make them a bit special.

 

I think you could call someone on copying, if the wig, eyes, and face up are identical. Even if the sculpt isn't the same, you can still copy everything else. Easily, I could go and rip off one of the more well known dolls, with my doll, who is more than likely, not the same sculpt, or even size. I can understand taking inspiration, like 'Wow, that wig really looks good with that skin tone. My doll has the same skin tone, so I'll get that wig too.' I don't consider that copying, that's just inspiration. But looking at a doll and saying 'Wow. I love everything about that doll, and I want my doll to look exactly like it', and taking all the aspects of that doll, that's copying. And sure, imitation is the highest form of flattery, but people really work hard on designing their dolls, so to copy it exactly, without asking permission, is kind of a jerk move.

I will probably end up taking lots of inspiration from people, such as asking where they got their eyes, or wigs and all that, but I will never copy a doll completely. it's not very nice.

 

You're drawing a distinction between art that is widely known and art which is not widely known, but as far as stealing intellectual property, there is no "mass produced character" exception that makes it any less a crime to hijack Mickey than it is to hijack someone's lesser known character. It's serious business and Disney will come kick your butt if they find out about it. Likewise, and conversely, that also means that if you're going to condone the grey area of "Fan Dolls" of celebrities and profitable "mass produced" characters, then "Fan Dolls" of peoples OCs would fall in the same category, so long as they are denoted as such, and not presented as original ideas. If one tries to pass the doll off as their own idea, that's plagiarism plain and simple.

Of course as stated before, this comes from someone new to BJDs, applying the concepts of art as regards to written fiction, jewelery making, graphic arts and two dimensional drawing/painting.

8^)

 

I had someone suggest to me once that someone else had copied my Soom Lazule's look, since she had a curly/frizzy wig in a similar style on her Lazule too. Both our Lazules also have default factory faceups.

Quite frankly, I didn't (and still don't) see the similarity, and our two Lazules are nothing alike otherwise in personality or backstory, etc. In fact, I think frizzy 'fros on Lazules are awesome, and contrasts that lean face very nicely. So the more of them there are, the better.

 

I don't take myself seriously enough to get worked up if somebody were to style their doll like one of mine. Heck, if what I'm planning for Evra works as well as I hope it will, I plan to post an article on how I did it so other people can do what I'll (hopefully) have done. I don't expect people to credit me once I do that, since I mean it to reach a broad audience.

In terms of doll-characters themselves, I might raise my eyebrow and stop having a stellar opinion of the person in question's creative capacity if another owner just did the exact same thing with the exact same doll with the exact same bio-page backstory under a different name and never put any sort of personal touch to it and never did anything to push the style or the character to evolve, and never mentioned they were influenced by mine. But it wouldn't be anything worth getting into a confrontation over. I wouldn't want to build that sort of reputation for myself. Online or irl, one of the most valuable things you have is your good name. Best not to spoil it by getting into fights over something as nebulous as intellectual property in the appearance of a doll--or at least I think so.

If we're talking writing and selling the stories I base my OC dolls on, however, that's got nothing to do with dolls and the gloves are coming off straightaway. But, as I said, that's got nothing to do with the dolls.

 

I had someone accuse me of stealing from them, because our characters have the same name. Keep in mind, it's a rather unique name, but, still, this person was very rude to me about it, even though our characters are nothing alike, except with the same name. But, hey.

Some people are much more taken by this as opposed to others. I'd be miffed if someone copied a doll of mine down to the T. Why? Because those are my ideas, darnit. But, if someone's been inspired by me, it tells me I'm doing something right as a creator, because my ideas are hitting home.

And honestly, you'd better be sure that someone's copying you before you go out and accuse them of it. Try to solve the issue with whoever it is one-on-one before you blow it up. Maybe they didn't even know you existed. I'm new to this community, I couldn't tell you the names of the most popular dolls on here if someone threatened my life, maybe they just had no idea. And, if they did, just talk to them and see where their mind's at. Starting a rumpus right off just never ends well.

 

I think the only time that I would take some kind of offense to a copy of my doll would be for them to fully copy my dolls, down to their storyline. It's the storyline part that would upset me, though, not so much the physical appearance. Yeah, that might irk me as well, but I have already seen a doll in almost the same outfit as what mine had, as well as the same doll in the same wig. Did I know they were in existence before I got mine? No. Would I feel the need to change my doll if someone got angry over the fact that they happened to notice this? No.

I'm not going to change my doll for them because she's not their doll - more importantly, she's not their character. Like I said when I talked about illnesses, you can't think that there's only one asthmatic in the world, so how can you somehow think there's only one wavy-haired person/doll, either? This goes double for people who buy their doll clothes/eyes/wigs/shoes in a place that has the same items in abundance. Almost all of my doll's clothes are store-bought, and everything else is sewn by me. Everything after that is store-bought, too. You're bound to find people who have those same items. Maybe not all together, but in pieces.

I can see someone having characters with traits similar to mine, but the similarity can only go so far for me to not feel uncomfortable. For example, my doll's characters are both human, and they have human emotions, behaviors, and are susceptible to the same traits and disabilities as all other human beings. So, finding a doll who has a similar traits/personality/disorders will probably be nothing new.

However, if that person used my storyline down to specifics, I would be peeved. If they used that storyline to make money, I'd be irritated as well, but I'd have to be completely certain that this was made after mine was made.

All that said, unless you personally sculpted the resin, handmade the shoes, eyes, wigs, clothes, and copyrighted the design on everything, I don't think you can do anything else but vent to a friend if it really upsets you. And like others have said, you can't go and become hostile to that person who might've had a similar doll to you because sometimes strange things happen, and people have the same ideas. Who knows - someone might have a similar doll to you before you even created yours, and you never knew it.

Edit: Come to think of it, if a person took my dolls characters, their traits, and the storyline - but didn't keep my characters' looks at all - I'd get more upset than them having a doll with the same features.

 

I think the hobby is too small for you never to run into a doll that looks similar to yours. There aren't hundreds of shops to buy a huge variety of bjd stuff from and even down to wigs...I'm sure the likes of Leekeworld and Monique for example are hugely used.

If you buy (for arguments sake as he is a popular sculpt) a Delf El and you buy him with the default face up and clothing from Luts, you're going to come across another El sooner or later that would resemble yours. On this point, I don't think you can claim complete ownership of that look. Even with face ups, there are only so many types of face up available really: natural, goth, pretty, glamorous etc so as another example Dollshe Saint with goth/dark face up is quite common (and very nice!).

I think you could only say your work has been copied when it is something you have designed yourself -like a tattoo or unusual wig or high fantasy face up.