When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

I'm not saying that other people don't have a right to feel miffed. I know a lot of artists and designers and they're all over the map on this issue. Some of them shrug it off better than others. But the most successful ones, to me, are the ones who use their upset as energy and proceed to create something new and different of their own. A case in point is an artist I know who was making marionettes and got a lot of attention for them, selling for pretty high prices through galleries, eBay and elsewhere. After a couple of years, he began to see other people making marionettes that looked very much like his. So he switched and began to make other types of figures in different shapes, and is still very successful. Last I saw him, he had a piece in a show for a major toy company.

Basically whenever you have a good idea and it is out there awhile, people will start to copy whatever you are doing, so you have two choices: get some sort of legal protection and enforce it, or else just keep coming up with new ideas faster than people steal. Being miffed may be a normal human reaction, but some people put too much energy into being upset and let it hold them back from doing new things.

And, frankly, I think when it is just a hobby and not your livelihood, being upset is a waste of time you could be spending enjoying your very own doll. So what if ten people made a doll that looks like yours? You still have yours, the one YOU made, and hopefully you're not going to love it any less because other people are silly sheep.

 

If they coaxed themselves to believing it was all okay, sure.
But quite realistically, even though you PHYSICALLY have yours, the one YOU made; something IS taken away.
Like it or not; people DO tend to feel less attached to their own dolls because it seems a lot of people like their characters to be individual; notice all the epic stories, extreme modifications, power-gaming characters?
The general mentality seems to shift towards being the best or "one of" the best.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a reflection of the owner's own desires and fantasies.

oh well.

 

It's not really about me liking it or not - if that's how people feel, I guess it's how they feel, even though it might seem odd to others. I think this comes back to the other thread though, about how a doll for some people is providing them something or compensating for something in their life. In your example it would seem to be the doll is providing the owner with some sense of individuality, power, specialness, or recognition. The doll game for them has gone beyond just having fun styling a doll and playing with it.

As shown by the other thread, people feel all different ways about what a doll is providing them, so it's likely that people will all have different reactions to having their dolls copied too. Some might laugh it off or even not notice it, while to others it would be a major upset.

 

Yup exactly Well since its a debate, an individual opinion doesn't quite give as much weight; so no, i wasn't directly asking whether you personally liked it or not at all. X3
It is also is why people would find it a problem to be copied despite the little they physically lose in the process.

 

In some ways, the worst would be if someone copied your idea but did it heaps better. It's one thing to point out a poor imitation, but somehow humiliating if it was done better.

 

I couldn't agree more.
Perhaps it is what people are worried about when their dolls are being copied, rather than the notion of something gone missing it is in fact the potential the "copier" now has over them

 

And my post, despite its wording, is not entirely about me, personally, liking it - it is also about why other people in general might not perceive copying a doll as being a problem or a big deal.

frankly, with these debates, unless it's something like scalping where 500 people have clearly stated they're against it, we can really only all speak from our own experience because we don't live in other dollie owners' heads - but we can reasonably anticipate that in such a large community, any reasonable view a person has personally is likely to be shared by a group of others, whether or not one knows them and whether or not one is in on the debate.

 

Doll copying is something that really bugs me. When it's really obvious. I think obvious influences are ok but when someone is blantantly trying to recreate your doll it's frustrating, dolls deserve their own originality, it's part of the fun of getting a new doll! I think it's kind of shallow for someone to exactly replicate a doll just because they like the look when an owner has worked really hard on the look and backstory as to why the doll is the way it is. I would find it hard to bond with a doll if I wanted it to be exactly like someone else's because I know it would be neither and I'm sure if it could think the poor little thing would have an identity crisis lol.

I think if someone copied one of my dolls I'd be really annoyed, as in same look, name and personality because that is the dolls character not the mould. I wouldn't feel any less connected to my own though I'd still love it the same.
Celestia makes good points.

 

I was thinking of Junket's Sliver as I was reading through this thread.

There is a point when a doll crosses over from just hair, eyes and clothes to art. Be it either by modifications, face-ups, scars, tatoos and the like, if someome copied Junket's Sliver it would be like copying a painting, Sliver is a work of art, Junket's art, and that 'would' be copying to me.

Having the same mold, same hair, same eyes (without the things listed above) is going to happen, it's when you do the extra things listed above, purposefully copying another persons very unique doll, That I would consider it real copying.

Names... phhhht! unless you make it up it's not original anyways.

Here, here! I had opened a comission thread for making flexible tails, I had a really great idea and I got tons of PMs asking me how I did it. I had a comission thread up for pete's sake, why would I give my secrets away?

And finally... one person strung me along pretending she was interested, asking every question possible, until I called her on it and she said that my price was too high and that she'd decided to make her own, with my idea... I had my thread deleted by a mod that afternoon, I'd had enough.

And what this taught me? While we'd like to think that everyone is nice out there, the truth is that there are people who just don't care about anyone but themselves, they are malicious and mean and If Pming doesn't work, take it to a mod, they'll advise you on the best course of action.

Mobbing the copier, is not the answer, taking it to the group forum... I'm still on the fence about.

 

Everyone has their own defined boundaries of inspiration and copying ...

Examples, I really like the Angeline Jolie's minimee's raised eyebrow and thought 'what a good idea' as I have always tried to get the faceups on my dollfie symetrical ... I painted a slight lift in the eyebrow on my dark-elf character and made him slightly smirking, which was what I was wanting for my character. I once saw this fabulous fur wig on a MSD, perfect for my tiny, as I cannot find any nice quality fur for making myown wigs I found a seller which made this style and had one made for me. The tiny I have even though she has this distinctive wig, has a completely different overall look.

This is what everyone does - takes inspiration and creates their own version - this is what this forum is all about, sharing your ideas.

I would never copy a complete character to faceup, outfit, assessories, etc, as (a) pointless - already been done before, why replicate, the challenge is to work with it and do something different (ie inspiration), (b) very sad and uncreative, isn't this hobbey about creating specific characters for yourself, making them individual just for you?

Everything has been done (probably) at least once, fashion, music, history, it all recycles itself. I have noticed various doll footwear companys, some of which are highly regarded in this hobby, direct copying alternative footwear that I actually own detail for exact detail, I was fascinated @_@ and headband goggles for dollfies, well that started in the cyber/ebm scene in the UK well over a decade ago ... In this context I find this as inspiration, as it is moving between 'genres' and find it great fun ^^

I was once heavily into the hair forums and scene 7-10 years back ... there was this person, completely brand new to the scene, constantly asking about source materials which at the time people had really spent a lot of their money, time and effort (and wastage) into finding or experimenting, asking about techniques and tools - and did not contribute anything to the community. A month later she was selling on eBay ... I find that (IMHO) distasteful, and was very disappointed, even though I could see this coming a mile off @_@

All in all, this topic is down to the individual's boundaries on right and wrong ...

sorry if I haven't contributed to anything which has probably been said before ^^

 

that reminds me of a person in the LJ community, fakehair.

I think there is an overlapping of "copying" to alternate meanings like.. homage, superimposing, modifying and influence (among others). It seems a lot of people are drawing the line very different and its really quite and eye-opener to gain insight to X3

 

This was in a forum before Fakehair existed ^^ and is no longer with us ... (that has probably given it away).

Back to 'copying', this is why it is such a sticky topic - it is highly subjective in how people see it.

On a last note, if someone were to copy any of mine (which would be weird as none of them are yet in the right state to be fully copied) I would find it *very* creepy that someone had taken the time to do this. I wouldn't find it flattering (if they had been inspired, yes) but a copy detail for detail would be disturbing. If someone has that talent to copy something in that detail it is also a waste of their abilities.

 

This was in a forum before Fakehair existed ^^ and is no longer with us ... (that has probably given it away).

Back to 'copying', this is why it is such a sticky topic - it is highly subjective in how people see it.

On a last note, if someone were to copy any of mine (which would be weird as none of them are yet in the right state to be fully copied) I would find it *very* creepy that someone had taken the time to do this. I wouldn't find it flattering (if they had been inspired, yes) but a copy detail for detail would be disturbing. If someone has that talent to copy something in that detail it is also a waste of their abilities.

 

In my opinion, since I went over this in the names thread as well it is never ok.

This is a HOBBY. Is your character copyrighted? Are you making money off of your character?
This would be like, if you saw a popular hairstyle in a magazine and got your hair done that way, and then the model who modeled the hairstyle in the magazine came after you.

It just isn't right, and it just shouldnt happen. True, I would not like it if I had a doll made after my original character and they ran around making her do things that I felt damaged the character but that is their choice. They spent the money on the doll and they enjoyed my way of participating in this hobby, so they adapted it for themselves.

As long as I know in my heart who or what is original, it doesnt matter to me.

 

Hmmm I'm not sure when a good time would be, but personally I'd probably ask how they got the idea as soon as I found out. It really depends. I'd feel rather flattered but also upset.
NOTHING bothers me more than coming up with something completely at random, someone else doing it, and being told I was copying or just trying to "fit in" (I've punched people over this o.o).
Anywho, I wouldn't jump all over someone for it. It could just be coincidence. For example I saw these cute SD sized coffins, and thought ooo I'll line it it'll be so awesome, well I was out bid and a week later someone had done the exact same thing I was gonna do and was selling on ebay as an SD coffin >< I was so upset! I had never told anyone what I was thinking and this person was all the way on the other side of the world. It was just a really spooky coincidence o.O I mean what are the chances? Bah.
Though it is things like this that motivate me to stand out further, Those coffins became not good enough for my boys and I'm now carving and sculpting my own.

Edit: On another note personally I don't see why someone would want to copy. Copying someone else's just isn't the same as having the fun of discovering your doll's personality and look. Sure I see some gorgeous dolls and be all like I wants him! But the thing is he wouldn't be mine. That'd make me pretty sad.

 

For me it is a matter of
A. Is it based on pre-existing character? For example, at a recent con someone saw my Ran Fujimiya doll and said they wanted their own, so I was happy to discuss wigs and eyes and etc that I used. That can't really be considered copying.

B. How many 'unique' features they share. Default faceups have been mentioned a lot as something to not consider, but say... your doll is missing an ear, has a tattoo of a teapot on their chest, and one leg is dyed green. These are all fairly unusual traits, and the odds of someone else coming up with the exact same combo without knowing that you did it? Veeeeeeeeeery unlikely.

C. If you make a change to your doll, do they copy it? Lets say above one-eared doll gets a scar across their left buttcheek, does the 'copycat' doll suddenly sport an identical scar across his rear?

D. Even if all your doll's stuff is bought, is there a trend to using the exact same brand, style, and color? This one is a little harder to pin down, and is more likely if they're less common or non-cheap items. Like using the same Dollmore eyes is a lot more likely than using the same pair of $100000 custom ordered glass eyes made with real diamond dust.

 

well, I don't really think it's something against the LAW if somebody just happen to love how your doll looks. In good meaning, it just simply means that they adore the look. Unless they build up an exactly ones and go sell it on the market, or go around claiming "hey that's my doll, base on MY character", then, well, it's time to accuse that person.

If not, then no one should ever accuse people from copying other's doll. Because if you do, then XDD there're like hundreds of DODs or Luts out there that all dress up the same in their default package, rite?

And btw, I bet that 60&#37; of us on DoA once wished that we wished to have a doll that looked as pretty as some people's. In some situation, that's also what might've encouraged us to get our first dolls.

 

I think if you have any doubts you should clarify privately with the suspected copy's owner first.. since it would be rude to him/her to be accused of copying somebody else when he/she actually thought of the idea based on own effort.

i made a custom doll once that was strikingly similar to an old one on a board(non bjd).. right down to the shades of eyecolours in each position. i was extremely embarrassed when the owner openly commented that it looked nearly identical, because i had no idea how to remedy the situation when in the first place i just randomly matched and popped the eyes in and i had no proof that i had not seen her doll. furthermore her doll had been around much longer than i myself had been registered, so it made me look all the more suspicious.

though it doesn't seem to have influenced others' comments about the doll, i can't help wishing that the owner would've PMed me about it instead of commenting like that...since the slew of similarities made me look awfully guilty of copying ideas for a custom i was going to sell, when i had honestly no idea of her doll's specifics at all.

sooo.. my point is, spare a thought for the suspect. it's embarrassing for the person as well, to have made something that someone else had already done long before, and could unnecessarily tarnish the person's reputation even when the person is innocent.

 

Firstly, I would like to disagree with this quote entirely. There is never a limited ammount of looks you can create with these dolls. They're completely customizable and saying that there's only 'so many' looks you can create is such a cop-out, as is copying.
Personally, I have a Sha, a Kiss and a Segi. All of which are pretty stand-alone-unique as far as it goes. No, I do not heavily-mod my dolls. Yes, the Sha and the Segi have had their noses sanded a little, but not to the point where you can tell something has been done to them. The Kiss' head has not been modified but he does wear a quite obvious bandaid on his face. They do look different to any other types of the same head-molds, but it's not through permanent-modification, it's through slight customization. I customize their hair and blush//body paint them in ways which I think are appropriate to their characters. I, in no way, own the rights to veins and freckles but these kind of markings are distinct to my dolls. So if another doll popped up with a band-aid on it's face or one popped up that was dead -not a zombie or a vampire, just dead like how my Neil is just dead- then I'd have to frown a little.
My dolls have fangirls, I know a lot of them persoanlly, but none of them would replicate my dolls because a lot of my dolls features are more character-based then doll-based and it'd be pretty damn obvious that I was being copied if another dead-junkie or his imaginary friend popped up on the boards. I don't like copies of dolls like I don't like defaults. Sure, if it's something you like then you should customize your doll to look the way you want it to, but making a copy of another person's doll is just weak and defeats the purpose of customization. Sure there are exceptions to this, like if you're trying to replicate a cannon version of a character out of a book//game//tv show, but at the same time on that, aren't you kind of infringing on the rights of the original creators of that character? I think you might be.
It's a lot of finger-pointing to be sure, but I do think obvious copies should be called out. Not to the point of an angry-mob lynching, but a polite 'hey, I don't know if you've realized this, but your doll is obscenely similar to mine.' would suffice. Especially if the doll has been customized somewhat and it appears elements of it's character have been copied as well.
Because it's one thing to have a doll look similar, but it's completely different for it's character to be copied.

 

Wow - reading everyone's responses to this subject is going to take quite some time!

Here are a few of my thoughts -

First of all, I have no problem with people copying characters from Anime/Manga/Novels/Etc. In fact - I like to see the characters come alive in a very tangible sense. (I have my own character copy of Rukia from Bleach.) However, when it comes to people copying dolls for their own dolls, that bothers me. I mean - I absolutely ADORE a lot of the dolls here BECAUSE of their originality and the personalities they have. For example: My Matti. I would be very upset to see someone with the same mold, haircut, eyes (though, he's getting his character eyes for Christmas, if I can find them!), personality, background story, etc. Matti is my little elfling, and my character - even if someone had the EXACT SAME DOLL, I wouldn't mind, as long as they gave him a different story and personality.

...ok, that was rambly, and I have to clock back in (I'm at work) so...more later, promise!

La