When is it alright to accuse someone of copying your doll/someone else's doll?

wow this forum has some interesting debates to be sure, I only read this last page becuase my computer had problems uploading the whole thing, so excuse me if I'm repeating

But from my personal feelings I look at it like this, Im waiting for a doll to fit an original character I have in mind. This is a character I've RPG'd with, have started writing a novel based around this guy. His whole personality, looks, attire is soemthing I've had in mind and worked with/on for a good 5 years+. Now if whether I had his faceup done by someone else or I did it myself and I see him copied, yes I'd feel upset because there's an emotional attachment there but then if I were to see him in someone else's gallery ontop of that, well I'd probably start steaming. All they'd have to do is copy the look, with/without name or with/without outfit, I'd still be upset especially if that person couldn't have at least contacted me first which I think is a required considerate thing to do. It's not just an artistic creation it's a personal ideal and basically, my work. period. And to my understanding, that's the whole basis of vero.

Can I go copying mickey mouse and copy a design or toy item and sell it as my own I'd be slapped with who knows what from Disney. It's their work, not mine. The whole fashion industry is based on protecting their original designs, that's why it's not posted unless they're ready to deal with those "fakes". I think it would be a shame if the doll customizing goes in that direction, but really, If I really didn't want my doll copied in any way I'd have to make do with not showing him off, basically, which is a shame.

Sure there's lots of coincedences, but, if you take pictures side by side, I think it would very easy to see if it's a copy. With all the different people's personalities out there, it's very difficult to have a "similar vs copy" coincedence in a whole face, esp with all the customizing going on, you simply cannot have a coincedence of a whole face.

As far as accusing them publicly, I think 2 people can be adult enough to discuss it amongst themselves, but if that didn't help then I suppose it would eventually go public. I dont know if mods do anything regarding stuff like that, I have no idea about the rules here as far as that goes.


(Since I missed the whole first few pages, I can't comment on harrasment or anything else, I just wanted to post my emotion if I thought my doll were copied. I also couldn't view the pictures).

 

I think if a person knows that they like a doll a want to copy it exactly or pretty close to exactly, it would be appropriate to talk to the doll owner first and find out if they are okay with it. If not, don't do it or don't make it exactly like the original. However, as many people have said, it is easy to get similarities because you have the same doll head, a similar wig, the face-up may be done by the same person, etc. Personally, I get ideas from everywhere - fashion magazines, stores, web-sites, comic books, computer games, etc. General sharing of ideas is just part of life, so there is liklihood that there will be similarities in dolls. I can understand being upset by an exact copy, but on the other hand, if someone is excessively concerned, maybe they shouldn't post pictures of their doll... just a thought...

 

I don't think it's really ever okay to accuse someone.
They aren't copyrighted by owners, and "original" (I put it in quotes because nothing is *really* original anymore) dolls usually use aspects or looks that other people like. Theres only so many styles, wigs, eyes, etc. that people can use per mold.

Besides, even if someone uses the same idea, who is to say they didn't get the idea from another source. Example, my dollshe Bernard's namesake comes from a book, and his look is similar to that described in the book. When I saw another dollshe with nails exactly as described in said book, I asked the owner if I could have it done. I believe the owner was reluctant but agreed, which I am very grateful for. However, the idea behind the nails themselves is not an original one.

I personally would be flattered if someone liked an aspect about one of my bjds enough to do something like it. I wouldn't like *character* theft however. Thats a totally different matter.

 

although those 2 sentances kinda contradict, im kinda the same on this; i'm going to be honest, id feel a little ticked if someone had a puki sugar who looked alot like my lychee, but lets face it, its a colour + style of wig and some eyes, basically, i couldnt blame them for crossing over with me. though i would be suprised.

i would be flattered if they talked to me about it or said i influenced them; thatd be really nice, but at the same time, i like to encourage people to be original. i suppose i feel that at the end of the day, their doll will never be like mine is, not to me personally, so it doesnt really matter

character theft though...thatd just be really appalling. most of my characters names and personalitys are very distinct and i wouldnt be impressed AT ALL if they were stolen i would feel perfectly fine to chat to someone if they did that

so many dolls exist on this board, thinking about it, im suprised ive only seen about...2 or 3 dolls which appeared to take a style from another/take their character. it doesnt worry me much because i dont think many people who get into this hobby would be interested in blatantly copying people; the main idea is personal customisation

 

I don't see any problem with copying. "Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery"... and all that.

If somebody saw a doll of mine and liked it enough to buy the same sculpt, have it painted the same, use the same eyes and wig and copy the outfit(s) I dressed my doll in. So what? It's flattering that they like my taste enough to copy it. They don't need my permission to copy it or anything and are perfectly within their rights to do so, I couldn't stop them if I wanted to, and I can't see any reasonable reason that I'd want to.

Being bothered by it seems... well, to put it bluntly, a bit precious.

After all, it's their doll, they can paint and dress it however they want, and if they want it to be a clone of somebody else's fine, that's what they want for their doll.

The only time I see a real problem with it is if they were trying to make a profit from it (copying a popular but limited edition doll for the sake of selling it, for example).

Teddy

 

I don't really see imitation as the most sincere form of flattery unless they actually admit they're imitating someone to the public XD

I'm kind of on the fence about this. I'm going to be designing a doll off of Gackt (!) and since I missed the minime GO I'm instead going to get a similarly-looking doll and pay for custom faceups. Of course I'll make a big gallery brag once I get him, and as I get an extra head I'll be buying a faceup for that too - both are Gackt-specific and relate to specific concerts or PVs.

Now, if someone ELSE were to get the same model doll, and pick one or even both of the same faceups, would I be annoyed? Yeah, a little. I admit it. Of course, if they said that they saw the idea from me and liked it, then I wouldn't care so much. But yeah, I'd be a little irritated if I saw someone else making a Gackt doll from Mars and using the faceups I'd picked out.

Now would I actually ACCUSE them of anything? Heck no. I don't own Gackt (as much as I'd like to XD) and I don't have any rights to him, I didn't 'claim' him or his makeup ideas at all. I wouldn't send a PM, I wouldn't post anything about it. I'd just twitch a little behind the screen, because I'm like that. But for me to message them about it would be incredibly tactless and rude. And it could be coincidence. Unlikely, but possible. Besides, what satisfaction would I get out of making someone feel bad? What if someone did that to me? I'd be very hurt.

So, yeah. I'd be a little tweezed. But I wouldn't say anything about it. No need to make a fuss, I try to avoid drama. XD

 

I just bought a limited edition zaoll luv, and was dissappointed to see so few other pics of zaolls on this forum. Now im kinda glad, coz this doll is representing a character very dear to my heart. Im keeping her default faceup, but im changing all her clothes, and wigs, and eyes, and if i saw another doll who looked like her, it really would bother me, because the character is so special to me. And there probably will be dolls like her, because shes not *unique* in the full sense of the word.

I accept there will be similar dolls, and thats fine, tho id rather not see them lol. Its the backstory which really makes the doll, and if i felt like someone was "stealing" this person id invented and who i loved dearly? Id be mad

 

I find that "copy"ing itself is not a bad thing to do. If you dont like someone copy-ing, then settle it with the person involved.

Actually, publicly accusing people of copying if pretty offensive. The two of you may just happen to have the same taste, like the same type of clothes and hair and eyes. o_O

 

I believe that intellectual property has value. Maybe not legally, but emotionally!
Dolls existing that are similar to your own is inevitable, BUT...
If your doll has a name, look, background, or other feature that is definitively theirs, and someone copies that, well...I think you have a right to say something, as long as the evidence is on your side, and you should definitely go about it in a sensitive and mature way.
Take the Mistula dolls for example. If somone bought a doll, customized it to look exactly like one of the Mistula dolls, gave it the same name, personality, and background...I don't think anyone would stand for that, even if the owner tried to write it off as "fan art." Anyone can own a Lishe or a Tsukasa...but even another Tsukasa named "Uno" would raise some eyebrows. Sure, you can be a fan of a doll, or be inspired by a faceup or outfit. But outright copying someone else's hard work is pretty lame, IMO.

 

Well, I have to ask this, do people copyright their own styles? I mean there's only so many styles, and too many people. And then there's fewer dolls than people, but still only so many styles. I doubt I could justify or even call out someone for ripping a style, if, in all reality, it wasn't mine in the first place. I think there are way too many factors involved for someone to accuse another of something that seems -in my eyes- trivial. But if it really bothers someone, then the owner and the -copier- need to have a heart to heart/chat to chat not the whole community.

 

I have a green-eyed blonde-haired Shiwoo. And he tends to wear casual clothes. I wonder how many are running around exactly alike, lol.

This is why I create dolls after my charries only. My charries have been around way before I even discovered bjd's and I can say for certain I wasn't influenced by another doll, although I'm sure there has to be look-alikes.

At the same time I've spent a lot of time and effort in the looks of some of my boys when creating them, a lot of them are just normal natural looks and its understandable there might be some like that running around. But someone like my Frost for example of something to me which I think is unique (who's still a WIP) if someone were to copy him exactly like mine, down to his mismatched eyes, mold, faceup, horn, clef scar, and personality on purpose, it would def. tick me off. Mostly because before a doll he's my character from my books and very special to me. ^^; I think if my dolls were not my "childen" from a writer's pov, I'd probably not have a problem, but they are very a part of me because I write for them.

But I don't think it should be made public. There is a thing called tact and this sort of thing should tried to be resolved through pm, with a mod or not.

 

The same thing happened to me, except it was just the name, not the mold/personality or anything. And the doll's concept and name was something I've been planning for months before I even joined this forum. But it still had made me uncomfortable enough to trash the use of the name altogether. As others have pointed out, this whole issue with copying is a very touchy subject with a lot of circular arguments on to what extent two or more of the existing dolls can look alike without calling it a coincidence. The subject of copying SHOULD be discussed between the owners of the dolls rather than involving people who have nothing to do with the matter. Because people rather get overly emotional and sensitive when involved in drama of any kind, thus good intentions lead to several misunderstandings and hurtful rumors

 

For me, it always comes back to this quote that I heard when I was watching a documentary about (weirdly enough) the metal industry.
I don't quite remember which rocker said it, but it always stuck with me and I feel it kind of applies here too:
He said "Everything worthwhile doing and original has already been done by someone else and so, it's your job to do it better/ take it in a different direction than they did."
The only time I might ever wonder about someone copying is if the personality and life-story are identical... say for example if I had a doll and she was this species and came from this world with these powers and had a lover named this and suddenly someone else has the exact same doll with the exact backstory.
There are always going to be coincedences in doll appearences, but doll stories should be at least slightly unique to each doll...

 

i dont really care if someone else would copy a pic of my doll that is pubblic in internet . if u dont want this 'risk' , dont put pics on line !! after all, there 'll never been two dolls really equals

 

Interesting thread. I can see how people want to create and appreciate their doll's individuality, however, I can also appreciate that others may also want a similiar "look" for their own dolls.

In the end, though, there is always a risk of anything being copied when it is put up in a public forum or on the internet. If individuality is really all that important to you, posting pictures on a public forum like this may not be the ideal place to share your doll. LiveJournal or another more private option where you can share with friends may be a better alternative.

Many people who collect these types of dolls tend to gravitate towards similar things. There will always be a certain level of "copying" and sometimes it may appear to be identical, but is it really worth it to get angry and confrontational about a doll? Personally, I don't think so. There are more important things in life to worry about.

 

I might be a one-off, but I would actually feel quite honoured if someone copied MY doll... that would compliment my taste, my idea and I would never feel or say a bad word. My dolls don't need to be unique, as long as I love them as they are.

- Karina

 

i think when you can accuse of them copying your doll is when you actualy did the face up and make the doll own clothes, and they copy exactly like that then that is when you can accuse them of copying. but if not and you're just buying things, there is posibility that there is other out there that have the same preference as you do and order the same thing as yours, cause all the items out there is availible to everyone.

 

To me, my dolls are an extension of my personal fashion... and I've always been of the mindset that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I don't understand *why* people get so worked up over copying -- is it the idea that the doll is unique in the wooooorld that some people like? Like LEs... I mean, we all complain about LEs, but I think a lot of people enjoy rare/LE "bragging rights." I don't mind having popular dolls, so I don't mind having people copy my style, or have a doll in a similar style to others.

 

This thread is quite interesting - opinions seem to be coming from every angle. ^^

Honestly, I think it would be very difficult to discern inentional copying from accidental, even when it comes to the storyline, unless someone pretty much says outright that that's what they're doing (of course, even then, it's up to the owner of the original doll to take offense or not). With physical appearance, apart from fairly uncommon customization and self-made/designed clothing (without inspiration from pre-existing fashions/clothing lines/etc.), it is quite possible for two dolls to wind up looking very similar, albeit unlikely for some of the more unique appearances.

As far as names go, nowadays coming up with totally unique names can seem almost impossible. Considering how many "original" names are actually similar or are even inspired by various cultures, sub-cultures, fandoms, and the like, someone would almost have to throw together a random string of letters and hope for the best. Yes, there are some pretty interesting, uncommon names out there, but that doesn't mean that someone hasn't already thought of it before.

Finally, I know that a lot of people have said that they would probably only take offense if their doll's backstory was copied (while it may not have been intended to mean this when posted, I'm currently referring to only the backstory without also being attached to a doll of the same - near identical - appearance/name). I can't say I'd be surprised if almost every doll's given history had a twin or very similar match. That's not to say that there are a lot of unoriginal doll owners out there; it's just that there are a lot of tragic or mysterious pasts, travellers through space or time, vampires, magical creatures, and several other things that could be said to have been based on any number of books or movies. I'm sure there are some fairly unique stories out there, but the truth is that it's getting harder and harder to be completely original, even if we don't know that a particular character or story has already been created (I assume no one has read every book and the like in existence). Of course, it's a little different if all of the side characters and such also have identical traits and backstories, or even the same names (also, as Nobody said, the same world, species, powers, etc.); then, it's pretty safe to assume that something's not quite right.

Wow, this is way longer than the few sentences I'd intended . Now, I only talked about each element as an individual without the input of the other two. However, if there was a case with idental appearance and story, story and name, or name and appearance without it being based on the same pre-existing (assumedly relatively well-known) character, I think the person with the "copy" could definitely receive some reasonable scrutiny.

When it comes down to it, though, this is just my own opinion in relation to how I would deal with such a situation. Sure, I'd be a little put-off, but unless it's more than just one point, I couldn't really consider it a true copy, and even if it were, I probably wouldn't mind all that much unless the person was going around announcing that I was the one using all of their ideas. In the end it's really up to the owner of the original doll to decide if they believe someone is actually "copying" their doll and, if so, whether or not some form of confrontation is necessary.

(I'm really sorry for this ridiculously long essay. I guess I just had more to say than I'd thought and I probably wound up contradicting myself somewhere to boot. )

 

Perhaps I am coming from a different cultural perspective, but I find it rather disingenuous to be talking of copying the general statement which a doll makes. Unless it involves actualy legal copyright infringement I do not feel constrained about assembling a doll I like even if someone else has "got there first".

If it appeals to me, I shall have it and if that causes friction, I am afraid to say that it is not my problem.

This is not about flattery, nor about disrespect, nor even about being polite. Life is compromise to be sure, but sometimes all this touchy-feely egg-shell stuff goes too far.