"Why are BJDs so expensive?"

Delete please

 

It can?? All this time I had the idea that this is exactly where the problem is.

On the other hand. If it can be automated, I would assume the machinery would cost pretty penny. In the end it would low the cost of each doll, as far as casting goes, but only if a much larger quantities of such dolls can be sold. And if the price is lowered from $600 to say, $400, it doesn't guarantee that the sales would just boom. Because it's still a lot of money for most people. Basically, investing into machinery for resin casting (if such exists) would make sense if a really large quantities are meant to be produced and SOLD.

And there's another factor - the dolls might loose quite a bit of their attraction to people if they're not hand-made from scratch. And in the long run it may affect the market in a bad way.

 

when I've looked at casting most companies who offer a large scale resin casting service won't promise that there will be no bubbles or imperfections (if you notice a lot of cheap cast resin has tiny pinhole bubbles )

I always therefore assumed it was a quality issue that prevents it

also theres the issue of colour, most resin kits will be completly painted and so they dont have to worry as much over colour, which as I understand it can be a tricky buisness

 

As far as I know - and I will admit my knowledge on this is limited - the mixing and casting process with doll resin (You have to be careful when drawing comparisons, because there's lots of different kinds of resin out there and some of them are very bizarre substances) does have to be overlooked by humans because if it starts to go wrong, it goes wrong big time and has to be scrapped. Also injection moulding only works on certain materials, I believe.

Also - these companies are really small. It's no good saying 'increased production would offset any outlay' if they can't raise the capital in the first place, and big machines need big places to put them, safety checks, engineering maintenance, safety training, more people to operate them... and so on and so forth. You're actually looking at a huge amount of money.

Aside from anything else... do they really need to? I imagine that the big companies, like Cerberus Project and Volks, who produce enough dolls to make it worthwhile, have already streamlined the process as much as they can/want to (I'm pretty sure the bigger companies use vaccuums to cast their dolls - helps get rid of the airbubbles, leading to the difference in quality between a big company doll and a hand-cast-at-home doll). Anything smaller than that just really doesn't need to spend the money on making all these dolls that they might not sell.

I actually like the hand-cast aspect - it makes me feel like I'm getting better quality - but I don't think they need to, or want to, or could if they did, 'mass produce'.

 

I agree completely with this, if these dolls would be machinaly mass produced, where would be the fun of trying to go after that one sculp you loved so much,

the fun of collecting an item that is in the end a special piece or art is an important part of this hobby's appeal for a lot of people.

and indeed when mass produced the quality of the dolls would go down, which would also cause more trouble than ease.

so mass production? no I don't think its a good idea

 

For alot of people and manufacturers, these dolls aren't just dolls. They're an art.
Art has soul, and feeling invested in it. It's what makes it special.
Machines don't have souls.

I, personaly, don't think these dolls would 'feel' the same if they where made by machines. Nor would they be as special.

If Machines do become practical, and an easy way to make bjds then I beleive some companies will start to use them.
But I also beleive that other companies will continue making them by hand. Continue putting a little bit of soul in to each of their dolls.

 

If I wanted a mass produced doll, I'd buy a Barbie.

 

I'd have to agree that machine production kind of gives the impression of a "loss of soul/specialness." Hand-made always sounds so fancy... that's why some people are leery of digital art, something about the involvement of a machine somehow cuts down the "human element." Though I am not entirely sure my opinion on what I would think if I saw mass-produced BJDs... unless mass production lowers quality.

BJDs are kind of a niche market, isn't it? I'm not sure if companies make enough dolls to warrant buying a machine to churn out dolls in ginormous quantities.

>_> Though when I was pondering about how long dolls take to make and people mentioned that resin is a finicky material that is easy to screw up and you could end up chucking out a whole batch... why resin? I know vinyl stains more, but that's about it.

 

I think that producing dolls with machines will only be affordable if there are a lot of dolls made out if it.
since there are all kinds of diffrent molds it will be difficoult.
I can imagen that the quality will go down as well, while in the same time the prices go up becouse buing the machines will be a lot of money (also in maintenance)
they are probbably not even invented yet.

besides that, I think it gives a "special" feelings to this dolls being hand made..

 

I think there just isn't enough demand per type of doll to be made for them to mass produce them. With the dolls being so expensive, and this is a very specified hobby there aren't that many people interested in buying them compared to say a Barbie doll.

So if they went with the capabilities of mass producing them and could make say 1,000 of any given doll in a day, do you really think they could sell 1,000 of one mold every day at $500+?

 

My brother actually works with resin moulding, for machinery parts, and I have often considered trying to get him to help me make a doll. So I asked him about it, and he said it's actually not possible to mass produce resin. Doesn't work. Machinery parts have to be watched just as closely - if not more - than dolls, because if they aren't, and there's even one air bubble, they could explode/shatter/break in a machine, destroy the machinery and a) cost companies thousands to fix and b) possibly kill people.

Resin moulding takes forever, making only a few parts a day, because everything has to be watched super closely, and that's in a machine, not hand-created.

 

Injection casting is specifically for thermoplastics.

The polyurethane resin, or any other resin, is thermoset resin, and does not cooperate with the injection molding process.

That is not to say there is no way of upping productivity, but the ease of injection molding is, alas, not it. Given its start-up costs (I'd estimate about US$1,000,000), just as well.
The hand-casting is more like US$1,000 start-up, and more time and material costs per each pour.

There was something else, something relevant. . . . . gone forever.

Ann in CT

 

I have no idea about technical details, altought what I have read so far makes perfect sense, I find the subject quite fascinating


I agree that there probably isn't enought demand for so many dolls to be produced! company would probably loose a lot of money trying to produce so much. Even if it was possible, and if it would make the dolls cheaper, there isn't a sufificiently big demand for them

 

I feel like I learned a lot from this thread. Someone should put together a wiki page.

 

I'm betting it's not a lot. I mean if you think about how much they have to pay for everything else (buildings, materials, labor, storage) that adds up to a hefty sum. And property renting in Japan is very expensive and I think volks has at least half a dozen shops under their belts. So even if they make a lot of money in theory, they might not even keep most of it. I would put that they probably only make a 2-3% profit at the most. (Costco whole sale makes 2% profit annually, while most companies only make 1% profit.)

I would say its like buying a movie ticket in the U.S. and how the movie theater only makes at the most 1$ on each ticket sold (the rest goes back to the movie company)

 

I'm no genius but whatever they do and how they make them, I'll buy one....or 2 or 3 .......

 

I wonder about this question too. I guess it's because it's good quality and it's handmade.

 

WILHELM HEDRICH company revolutionised industrial resin casting in the early 1980s, but even today they (and other casting concerns) have not been able to profitably cast anything approaching the quality of resins we see on our lads and lassies.

The material itself is its own worst enemy.

Plus, at the moment - despite what is understood to be the case - demand and supply are more or less perfectly balanced (at least in the Japanese market) if my own researchon the subject is to be believed. Volks has little incentive to even look at the issue.

Balance increased sales against the damage the SD brand would suffer (remembering that the gutter end of the model press here still sometimes labels the 1/6 dollife the 'super barbie' and treats the DD little better as the 'poor-man's SD').

Yuko.

 

I think that Donn's earlier response (Donn of Bishonenhouse) was/is extremely appropriate and gives an honest broken-down look from an insider's point of view at what - without additional expenses like showrooms and storefronts and the like - goes into the cost of producing a BJD.

For my mother who's a former sculptor in her own right, she can understand a lot of this and also remembers back in the day when a ceramic pot painted nicely could go for $500 and it was 'only a pot' so even when she balks at the price, she can at least understand why the cost is so much.

Being an adult myself, though, helps.

But, yes.

A suggestion for some of you trying to get other people to understand the cost of BJDs:

How about showing them Donn's website or the website of Rainman from Elfdoll or Dollstown? A lot of these places actually photo-document some of the process involved and Donn for sure talked/talks about the process itself along with photographing some of it (are the photos still up?).

It's a highly involved process that involves expensive materials and a lot of intense labor.

I like a response someone else gave: "If someone can spend $500 and over on a painting, then why can't I spend $500 on a doll?"

 

I think it is because they are so unique and can take on so many different personalities with just a wig, eye or oufit change, but they are definutely not for everyone. I looked at them for a long time and the price did delay my first purchase, but I was hooked after my first one arrived and now I have around 30 BJDs. The price no longer bothers me....if I really want a particular doll, I buy it without price being a consideration.
Brenda