"Why are BJDs so expensive?"

wow... this thread is very informative! My friends always look at me like i'm crazy when I tell them how much Dollfies cost and then I explain why they're so expinsive (they're from Korea, handmade,resin,custimizable, blah,blah,blah) and sometimes even then they still think i'm crazy.
Guess some people are stubbourn fools..I'd like to see them get all the supplies they need to make one doll. but I personaly think for all the stuff that goes into these dolls they are kinda cheap.

 

Volks makes them limiteds because it makes them sell very fast, it's also easier than having to make around 50 standards available at all times. The same principle is behind why CP discontinued Bomi.

You are looking at the US price only. In Japan they hardly cost more than standards; a standard Syo costs 75,600 yen with tax, an FCS SD13 boy costs 86,100yen with tax. My FCS SD13 boy with full esthetics from the Shinjuku Sumika cost only $880 USD (standard Syo without esthetics from VolksUsa costs $792). The dolls are also not hard to get if you live in Japan. Even though Volks has been extremely generous with their parties for us US owners, they of course cater to their home market customers. Any of the people on this board who live in Japan will tell you FCS is not hard to obtain.

 

....and, why bother.

 

I work with resin and casting. Generalizing that all resin is cheap is inaccurate. -_- Most BJD aren't made with cheap craft resin. Especially not the bigger companies, or the companies that use the expensive french resin. Not only that, but for getting a nice, bubble-free, moisture-free cast you need addition equipment. Vaccuum chambers, etc, are an additional expense.

It's also unfair to generalize that all Korean workers are being paid poorly. Korea is not a third world country. I remember when a discussion of "dolly sweatshops" came up, several Korean members were offended by the perception that Korea is a country of poor people in grass huts who are slaving away for pennies on these dolls.

There's also the money that goes into making your junk molds, then your industrial masters. Mold-making is expensive. Not even talking about the sculpting, research, marketting research, cost of having a website, cost of advertising. There is overhead in any business - I don't see people complaining this way about the "gouging" that goes into each commercially produced CD... and each cd costs what, a dollar or less to produce?

 

Here be my own answers which I really use IRL situations:

1. They're handmade. As what everybody has been pointed out. Thus, if you think of it, everyone is never made the same and has a unique quirk of his/her/its own. So in a way, XXX type number 2678 is never the same with it's XXX type 7870 because of that. I've always viewed each BJD as unique and different from one another despite mold type sameness.

2. It's a long process before one is made. Labor intensive and with high probability of scrap/failure due to the material being used. We've all heard about the Tan Doll scare before. And it's been mentioned that tan skin does ruin often than white/normal because of the process it goes through...

3. Has anyone ever thought of the technology/science behind them? I mean the technological advancements that allow these dolls to pose/do more than the usual. which ofcourse makes it more fun for us.

For exmple:the almost always improvement of bodies and joints to make it more realistic and easier for us. I'd like to note the KIPS and Suwarriko for starters. I mean whoa! I have quite a great respect for how those two jointing systems go.

4. The reason IMO limiteds are so expensive is because the mold and the fact that the clothes are both specially made simply for that edition.

In the case of Volks and their limiteds, often you see that it's not Volks that doesn't make the design of the clothes and they hire/get highly regarded people to do it and have it mass produced. Same principle IMO applies to the One-Offs save that they're even more specilal since it's a once-made, never done again kind of thing.

The limiteds are not just sth a single company makes but rather a collaborated effort to create something special for everyone at a limited run.

___

I'll post again when I can think of more but most of the time, these are what I tell people to shut up...

 

Just to throw in - taking into consideration the clothing, eyes, wig, etc... Volks one-offs are not that much more expensive than standards. A standard F-05 boy would have cost me about 900-1,000$ naked.. I got mine as a one-off with a fabulous, one-of-a-kind outfit for about 100-200$ more.

 

This thread has some good ammunition for me in my quest to soften the husband up to the whole BJD idea. Thanks! ^_^

 

This thread is great! Really!
I think it is okay that the dolls cost so much. Each of them has got their own personality. My problem is that I'm a pupil and I can`t afford it. My parents like the dolls too but they can't buy me my whole wishlist!
That's not easy...

 

IllusionssThank you for letting me know more about my Doll..^^

This thread reminded me of the thread about PS3 being too expensive seen here before. As with anything that is produced in the world, the price is never as simple as "cost of raw material + profit". Although a lot of people like to think that way and accuse companies of making too much profit and selling at too high a price.

What we are paying for is in fact the whole process of making things happen. Indeed quality resin would be expensive but honestly I don't think it's going to be $500 worth of quality resin in one doll. Others mentioned production cost and the expenses of casting. I think we've all forgot that in buying a doll we are buying a creation that someone has put enormous amount of time and effort in, and it can't be measured simply by hourly paid.

I think it's fair that the company have the right to put any price-tag on the doll. If people think they aren't worth that much then they shouldn't buy it in the first place. What I think is unfair is people look at the price tag of a doll, call it unworthy and then go to buy a cheap copy.

 

Even mass-produced dolls and action figures involve a lot of hand assembly and paintwork (not with a brush, but metal 'stencils' and airbrushes). The most basic Dollfies still have all that stringing, paint, correct eye placement, etc., that have to be done by someone with skill.

 

Exactly as Akasha said, as a designer, and some one who is working within the manufacturing process, I can say that materials actually make up the smaller part of the cost, with labor featuring much higher.

Now many people are saying that the resin a company uses will be more expensive than regular craft resin, this may well be true, but if you think about how much craft resin costs you, a company will still be paying less for a better quality resin than you are, simply because you are buying a small amount retail Vs a large amount wholesale.

The price of the dolls comes from the fact that they can't make that many that fast, so the few they do make have to cover overheads, the items are hand made and hand assembled which takes more labor, and a higher skill of labor. The designers are talented people who will spend a lot longer on each design than most people could even imagine, with design ideas and development.

Over all it is a long process with many people needing to make a fair living out of the work that is being carried out.

 

The markup on jewelry is often 200 or 300%. And people pay it. I assisted at a gigantic trade show last year, attended by basically everyone with a retail outlet in Western Washington. Six months later I saw items I took orders for at $2.30 each being sold all over town at $12 retail. And nobody bats and eye. That's capitalism. Transportation, labor, materials, infrastructure, health insurance, taxes, marketing, development, and raw profit all contribute to the cost of an item. If Volks follows a relatively standard company model, the sheer profit on a $500 standard SD is about $350. Everybody does it, we simply notice it more with SDs because one isn't used to paying that much for a doll. We assume they must be making much more money than Starbucks makes off a latte when the opposite is generally true. (After all, the beans in that latte costs pennies, professional espresso machines are less expensive than mold-making material, and those workers pull minimum wage... albeit with decent benefits partially footed by Starbucks.)

 

Personally, I got over the price of the BJD's (well especially SD's) because everything is priced more than what it could probably be priced. (take a $5 scoop of ice cream for example...) I don't really think about he price any more when I talk about my boy--but when I do get asked I just try to tell them that he's hand made from a doll company from Korea nad like someone previously said..they 'cork it'. I dunno. At first I thought they were ungodly expensive but now i look at others ,now comparing dolls saying that " 500? Wow that's cheap!" ... I think if there were more companys or outlets like...oh say...Build a Bear or something (just go with me people) then they might be priced a little differently. *shrugs*

 

personally, I can't see how the smaller companies make a profit at all....I don't see how they can justify their costs if they don't sell many dolls..

if we were all being ripped off, wouldn't there be a few cheaper doll companies selling the same quality product? I really believe we are charged close to production costs. if there was a huge gap someone would exploit it.

 

The fact is, one can always employ the 'It could be cheaper' logic.
The company should make less profit.
Developers and designers shouldn't be [paid that much as they only do the drawings.
The sculpters shouldn't be paid that much because they're only making a few heads, limbs and torsos out of a bit of clay.
The list go on and on and finally one reaches the conclusion that companies rip off collectors cuase they charge more than $200 for a doll or more than $50 for the PS3 one wants but can't afford.

The only problem with this logic is that "It's selfish and very very unfair"

 

I agree with everyone who's brought up the craftmanship and artistry in these dolls. They are truly works of art, not just dolls or action figures. An artist might easily spend under $50 for canvas and paint, but her end product will (hopefully) sell for much more, since what she's marketing is not raw materials, but a finished work of art. Give the same $50 canvas and paints to, say, me, and you will certainly not end up with something worth hundreds. You're paying for resin, yes, but also for artistic vision, talent, and execution.

Just another analogy...as a seamstress. I might spend only $10 in fabric and notions to make a dress, but charge $50-60 for it. I feel justified in doing so since hours of pattern-drafting, designing, fitting, and sewing go into my creations. Again, the raw material is relatively cheap...but if you can't sew, or cast dolls or whatever, then a yard of fabric or a tub of liquid resin isn't much fun to play with, eh?

 

hehe cute observation! and very true!

 

... What's really disappointing is to have polite conversation over a universally-relevant issue here dismissed as "selfish and very unfair." There is nothing of either in the acknowledgment of certain facts: i.e. that production costs and retail costs almost never come close to each other, especially in this hobby and the fact [again, note "fact"] that many if not most BJD-related products, particularly mass-produced objects, are marketed at a premium due to customer demand. Please note that "at a profit" and "at a premium" are NOT synonyms for the same thing. And before anyone starts in with the accusations, ALSO NOTE that I specifically left out mention of artist-created items sold on ebay, etc. as irrelevant to my basic premise.

You'd think I'd demanded that production-line workers all live in mud huts without running water or something.

What next? if this were a different forum I'd perhaps expect to see defense of pharmaceutical companies charging 10,000 percent markups because hey, someone actually SPENT TIME to come up with that, so whatever markup they company chooses to set is the right thing to do! They sure did spend time to come up with it, and they got paid to do it too. Hence you should pay $200 for your next prescription, and you better smile about it too because "the company has a right to charge whatever they want." This is not the best analogy, but I trust it will serve. One way or the other, I will not argue the point.

Profit is one thing, four-figure markups are another and I have said all I am going to say on the subject. I should have never offered an alternative POV. That was stupid of me, I see that now.

 

I don't think i've been talking about your opinion? I do apologise if you think that way.

The point I'm making is that if people always think 'It could/should be cheaper' or 'the raw material isn't expensive and therefore companies SHOULD sell it cheaper', they end up undermining all the human effort that is put into the end product.

A seller is selling a SD Shinku on Taiwanese auction for more than $5000. It seems a enormous mark-up doesn't it. However, he made the trip to the even in Japan, queued early to buy the doll. If you count into the time and travelling cost ...etc, he's not really making much profit. But I still see in people saying in the Q&A that the price was a rediculous mark up and trying to get him to sell at half the price. Not very fair, is it?

I am not saying that YOU think workers should work in sweatshops and live in huts, but pointing out the fact that this logic could lead to exploitation and it's just unfair.

At the end of the day, if one think a BJD isn't worth its price tag, why pay for it?