Why are so many boy dolls so girly?

well, perhaps that's the reason their owners think 'they are SOO SPECIALL'~.

 

I hope, that I haven`t appeared to rude. I really like and adore some doll characters (no matter what the sexuality of this doll is...) . I don`t mention to say, that every Bishi doll just exist for boys love and cross-dressing. It appears sometimes to me, that a some doll owners are reducind their dolls only to their sexuality.It could be, that it only appears like this to me. I don`t want to offend somebody ^^.

 

I'd really kill to see better facial hair on some of the males...

 

Well.. look at most dolls.. Even the boys DO look a little feminine.. I'm NOT Into Femmy boys, its just not my thing. I do agree with VulpesPraedatum, though. Its hard to find MANLY looking MEN dolls, but most of the time you get BOYISH or GIRLY looking BOYS.

>>..Does not leik girly boys. ><

 

I LOVE girly-boys. ^_^ I mean, seriously girly, down to child-bearing hips and pretty extreme sexualization. ^_^ I could point out the artist that first inspired me, but I'm sure nobody is interested. Anyhoo, I'm still actually in debate as to whether I should get a boy or girl version of my favorite sculpt. O_____O I love girly-boys, but I prefer girls. Still, I'm so used to calling it 'him' and I have always wanted a cross-dresser.... D: I AM CONFUS.

 

I'm fairly new to the whole BJD hobby, though I have been admiring them from afar for a couple of years now, but I too have wondered much the same thing, though not exactly. My question is "Why are there so many cross-dressing boy dolls out there?

Now I'm gay, fairly masculine and find myself attracted to the guys who dress and act like guys. A little eyeliner is fine and pretty hot, but I don't find eyeliner to be especially girly, just look at Johnny Depp. But, I am not attracted to guys who wear dresses or women's underwear, nor do I find guys wearing the full complement of makeup to be aesthetically pleasing or attractive, though I know that there are those that do.

That said, there's a difference between androgynous boys, gay boys, drag queens and cross dressers. For me androgyny is fine, having a gay doll is also fine. A lot of male characters I create are gay. It's what I know so it just works out that way. Drag queen dolls are cool too. I just don't get the fascination with boy dolls who have feminine faceups, have long, feminine styled hair, long eyelashes and wear only girls clothing. I'd just get a girl doll, also in my plans so that I can dress her in a all of the cool things that my boy cant's wear.

Now that's not to say that my boy won't be wearing all sorts of unisex clothing. I'm getting the DOC Tender Too and Bee-A set. I plan on them being my little redhead fashion model siblings and yes they're going to dress alike... all the time.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of feminine boys out there, but if you look hard enough you can find the more masculine ones. The best that I have seen so far are the Iplehouse boys. I can't imagine them EVER being mistaken for girls, haha, especially with those bodies. The Tedros with B-Type make up even has a beard.

 

By this time I think can sum this entire topic up in three comical short blurbs, so Here goes:

"Because of Yaoi Fans!"
"It's in the faceup."
"Thank you, thank you, Iplehouse, Iplehouse, Iplehouse."

(Disclaimer: If this manages to offend anyone, that wasn't the intent. This labeled and intended as tongue-in-cheek comedy.)

 

From a company's perspective, it's probably less risky to release a feminine boy sculpt, for demographic preference but also as a practical matter. If you make a sculpt strongly male, then all it will ever be is male and you limit your sales to people who want male heads. If you make it more ambiguous, then you can also sell the same head to people who want female heads. Volks FCS is practically built on this concept.

Regarding gender preferences, I remember a joke I heard long ago:

What do both men's magazines and women's magazines have in common?
They both feature pictures of women.

The grain of truth is that feminine features are considered attractive--or at least more visually interesting--to both genders. They just differ on the specifics. The stereotype goes that men prefer curves (obviously, right?) and women prefer what I can only imperfectly call sleekness, with slim builds and softer faces.

To me, it is no real surprise that most male dolls tend toward androgynous, just given that most doll owners are female.

I've taken the thought a bit further and believe that "male taste" tends toward hyper-sexualization, where men have exaggerated male characteristics and females have exaggerated female characteristics; genders are immediately identifiable. "Female taste" tends to want to make both more similar and thus de-emphasizes both; that's where "spot the female" games come from. </generalization>

 

Isn't this topic getting a bit old? There are several threads where people are complaining about bjd guys being girly, feminine, androgynous, gay or crossdressers.
What is considered girly/feminine and what is masculine changes from person to person, culture, era, fashion and so on and on and on....
So what is even the point in discussing this?
To me this has very little to do with dolls and all to do with personal preference.

 

Yes please!!

Some of you have already pointed it out - that cross-dressed, anorexic look isn't for me either.
It's true that this is something personal, but I don't think anyone can deny that most male BJDs are kinda girly. Not that it's bad, but yeah, some of us would like to have more choices (not just Iplehouse lol.)

 

I would just love it if some of you watched the documentary Tough Guise! You can watch it on Youtube.
It might change the way you (general you) think about what a "real" man is and what is considered girly.

 

It kind of makes sense, human beings- both male and female, are drawn to androgyny (it combines the best of both worlds). Thus androgynous looking dolls of either gender tend to be quite popular. I personally appreciate androgyny, but dislike overtly feminine looking boys/ overly masculine looking girls (becuase really it's two different things). It's an aesthetic thing- I read somewhere (I wish I could remember where) that the human ideal for beauty (if you averaged all of our own personal desires) would be an androgynous being.

 

That would be getting into the topics of gender roles/identifiers/preconceptions in PEOPLE. We're here to talk about style trends in dolls, which is much less likely to offend and turn into a bash and flame session.

That said, Yes, this topic is old, old old and the proverbial beating horse ain't getting any deader. However, we have new people entering the hobby all the time and they have to rehash the subject because they've never discussed it before. Now that I've been in this hobby for a while I tend to usually avoid the General Discussion section of DoA to avoid the Same Old Topics over and over. If this particular Dead Horse strikes a personal nerve, just avoid it.

Back onto the main topic,
As I've said before, these dolls are following an Asian Aesthetic. In Western art so far as I have studied it, (university level) Western beauty has two forms, Masculine and Feminine. In Eastern art, they don't seem to have as much of a distinction- Beauty is Beauty, so to make something Beautiful, to Western trends it tends to look feminine.
Also, most BJD colectors come to the hobby from an anime/manga background, which as a subculture encourages and promotes feminine/softer prettier boys.

 

Gender roles in people are the same though since it is people who create dolls. This is not just about trends in what resin is mostly used now. It is about why PEOPLE like "girly boy dolls".
So if we were just talking about dolls I would agree but we really are not are we? This discussion does blend in to what we think about people as well. When we use terms like REAL men is does not matter that we are talking about dolls.
I do not want a flame session believe me! I hate it when people argue! I just want to see if there are not more people out there getting tired of the old gender roles and stereotyping.

Thanks but I am a big boy and do not need anyones advice on what to avoid!
Even if it would strike a personal nerve is that not a good reason to add my two cents to this discussion? And this time I think I had something to say that has not already been said.
Yeah, there are some new people here, most of them saying the same things others have already said though.
But are there only new people here?
My questions was perhaps mostly aimed toward people like you as to why oldies like yourself feel the need to beat this poor stiff of a horse when you have nothing new to add. Perhaps this is a topic you are having issues with yourself?

And this is the very reason to why I think this topic should just be laid to rest in an archive somewhere and the new people can admire it from a distance.
Peace out!

 

either they're like super butch or total girly men
no happy medium

 

Not everyone is "tired" of the "old" gender roles, no. It's important to note, however, that trends of popular thought outside bjd subculture and inside it are going to differ significantly. That's part of any subculture. What we inside the hobby tend to think of as Masculine/feminine is different from what most of mainstream world culture, with some exceptions, defines as Masculine/Feminine. I think this is largely due to a difference in aesthetic associations through the styles of anime, manga, and other aesthetics brought in by the art styles popular in the places these dolls are made, as well as the Yaoi and "bishounen" trend in those media.
The mainstream art world at large is experiencing a heavy trend, (not a new one- androgyny comes and goes through the centuries in art and fashion) toward more androgyny in art and media, and it's likely to continue for some time, especially as gender roles are being expanded to include previously unaccepted variations. I wouldn't say that gender roles are being replaced or altered so much as expanded, because we still have lots of people who prefer traditional gender roles and characteristics, while we also have an upsurge in the movement toward portrayal and acceptance of more complex types.

I think I have something to add here from the perspective of someone who's had time to observe and contemplate the hobby for a while. I'm also someone who didn't ever really get on the anime/manga boat, but I have participated in that whole hobby a little bit, so I might have some useful perspective as an observer of that, too.

It should. I'd bet a hundred bucks it has been, at least twice, in the General Discussion Archives. However, sooner or later someone will ask again, and the discussion will happen all over. Humans tend to prefer to learn from personal experience, and discussions are no exception. Oh well.

Oh, no I don't think so. Check out the Gallery for lots of examples of male dolls who are very pretty but also very traditionally masculine in some ways, or who are masculine by charisma and attitude. There's also dolls with big muscles and strong jawlines and such with soft faces and sweet manners. There's lots of in betweens, and that's a good thing! We have variety here!

 

I know not everyone is tired of the old gender roles. That is my point. I was reaching out to people who ARE tired of them because all of the threads I mentioned earlier indicate that a whole lot of people actually like them.

I have no problem with that really. You like them? Then good for you because you see those old gender roles absolutely everywhere in the media, homes and workplaces.
What I have a problem with though is when people seem to think those gender roles are what is normal and anything that differs is abnormal or in some way inferior.

Example:
Say you have a man who looks like the popular CP El and another man who looks like the equally popular Iplehouse Akando. Both men but one with softer features and with less body mass. In some threads it seems that people think that a guy who would look like El is less of a man. He is not a real man because of the way he looks.
That is what bothers me.
What if these threads were about female dolls instead? What if I started a thread complaining about dolls not having soft features enough and lacking in the chest area saying that I want female dolls that look like real women?

A man is not more of a man because he has more muscles or a square jaw just as a woman is not more of a woman because she has an hourglass figure and big boobs. That is what I believe and I really hope there are more people out there who agrees with me!

When I hear the word "girly" I think of someone who behaves like a female child. Are there really that many male dolls who look like little girls or characters that behave like them?
I hear a lot of complaints about them but I do not see that many if any. But that might be because I just see things differently than others here? Most people on this forum are women from the US and I am a guy from Sweden. We have a very different perspective.

And I also do not think androgyny is a fad that comes and goes but I will not elaborate on that because that would go way off topic.
Long rant is long... sorry about that!

 

Because they are popular ?
And also, most BJD makers are asian and there is a big difference in culture between oriental and occidentals...
I'm pretty sure its normal for them and girly for us xD

I gotta say I'm one of those who loves pretty guys ^^'' xD
I'm just not into the manly faced mans and it shows in my choice of dolls xD

 

It's just a minority for manry manry men.

Now... here's the question. Where the heck are the masculine females!? I want one!