Why do people charge so much?

And allow me to point out something else: I have created an OOAK outfit for an SD doll that cost me about $70 in materials (I commissioned the shirt) and about 50 hours in time. (You can see it here, and yes, it's for sale here. Now, I'm attempting to sell it for $100, hopefully more. And yes, that's expensive compared to some of the dresses you could find on ebay, or here in the market place. And you could buy yourself two or three new outfits at Walmart for that price...

But you have to consider, those are mass produced by factories, and cost about $2.50 and take about 30 minutes to make a pair of $30 jeans (Yay for watching How It's Made!). So take a look at that mark-up. My outfit cost $70 and 50 hours to make, and I want $100 for it. I think you're getting more ripped off buying your clothes, even though they are technically cheaper.

And think about this, too: if YOU purchased a handsewn dress for YOURSELF, by someone who is well known for their amazing skills, and it's a one of a kind (like many expensive outfits), you wouldn't be paying $100, you'd be paying $10,000.

So before anyone starts complaining about high prices for doll clothes, consider that. You buy a pair of doll jeans that a famous dollie designer only made ten of, and you'll pay $80. Buy a pair of human jeans that a human designer only made ten of, and you'll pay $1,000. You can't compare apples to oranges (lovely, hand-sewn doll clothes to Walmart). You have to compare apples to apples (lovely, hand-sewn doll clothes to lovely, hand-sewn human clothes). THEN you'll see the difference.

 

like fuji apples to granny smiths xD not fuji apples to mandrin oranges xD

and another thing about the 60dorra eyes. There are different kinds of materials used to make eyes. Acrylic/plastic, glass (blown or... something), silicone, urethane and... did i miss anything?

For each of these materials, different kind of skills are needed, different kind of expertise and different levels of skillsmanship. Sometimes, for the same kind, different level of effort and skills are put in too. You can find 10 dollar chinese glass eyes. You can find 50 dollar Hand glass craft eyes and you can find 120 dollar zoukeimuras.

they're possibly made by different standards and different skills, but they're all glass and they're all in very different price range

 

I'm a very crafty person, so I just make something if I decide I like it enough. Not that I have the kind of skill to directly copy(and if I did, I still wouldn't!) someone else's work.

I understand the high prices, especially if it's OOAK.

BTW, Vaith, I saw the dress. It is gorgeous!!! I hope it goes to a good home!

^_^

 

I disagree. Money is like, one of the biggest issues in this hobby.

 

Cost is one of the factors that leads me to want to make the clothes. The other being I have specific designs in mind for the clothes that Moswen will wear and there's nothing like it out there.

 

This is an excellent way to put it, and I agree completely. Most doll clothes makers have an exceedingly tiny markup on their clothes compared to large retailers of human or doll clothes. Handmade goods can never compete pricewise with mass-produced goods. It's just the way of the world. But then again, machine made goods can rarely compete with something handmade by a true professional who takes pride and joy in their craft.

 

Some buyers confuse popularity with reputation.

You don't pay $250 for an Illness Illusion faceup just because she's "popular". It's because she has a stellar reputations and you know when you send your doll, the results will be not just be high quality but consistent. Same with Mio or Softly She Walks or "designer" doll outfits. There's a consistency of quality that is worth the price. There's professionalism. There are years of experience and skill so you don't have to worry that your services were rendered on one of the seamstresses' bad days and now the pantlegs of your jeans are too narrow. Demand comes into it but it's rare for a crafter to have so much demand in a hobby that they can use it to push their price way above market rate. These people can be counted on my fingers.

It comes down to what a doll owner cares about. I believe some of you honestly don't see the difference between those $20 and $60 glass eyes. Or some do, but don't think it's worth the difference. There is no reason to begrudge the makers of the more expensive eyes; they have their own audience to cater to. I also think people focus on things like whether clothes are coming apart and whether the seams are serged which I guess is a concern if you're shopping in he $5-15 range. But once you get up in price it becomes a question of fit - I buy Dollmore clothes and they are decent but always baggy, so they can go on any doll you may want to dress. Take a look at Mio's or Brennil's photos and those clothes are fitted to a T. If that's something you notice, you're probably a person willing to pay more. If you don't give a crap you probably don't see the value of going above Dollmore price range.

I personally have gotten more frustrated with cheap people clothing over the years. It's like with dolls: most people don't understand why anyone would pay $30 for a shirt when you can get one at Kmart for $5. Except that $5 shirt will stretch and pill much faster and probably fit less nicely. If you're conscious of this stuff you can spot differences. MSN had an article touching on the preference for large quantities of cheap goods over a small collection of high quality ones.

And man, there is nothing wrong with making money off your craft. Seriously.

 

I think a lot has to do with the price of materials too. I have bought plenty of things to do the face-ups with. And they cost an arm and a leg sometimes. >,< $17 for a can of MSC? That's terrible. And paint... wow. depending on the type and color of the paint you could pay anywhere from $2-$30 it all depends of the quality and type you are buying. Pastels run about $10-$50 depending on the amount in the set and the brand. Watercolor pencils are at least $1.50 each and you need 2-3 of them for a doll's eyebrows. Plus, on top of that, you have things like:

Airbrushes ($150-$250 easy) [Not the $50-$90 ones]
Airbrush compressors ($100)
brushes ($2.50-$16.50 at least)
Airbrush tips ($5-$30)
Cleaners (Depending $1.50-$12)
Masking Tapes (.60-$6)


They cost a lot. Granted, an artist should have these things prior to starting a business, it is still expensive.

I think that this is one of the big factors to costs with art at least. Granted, some might disagree with me. This is just my experience in the field.

 

You can also take the Antiques Roadshow view, if you would only pay $25 for a particular thing, but OTHERS would pay $1000 for a particular thing, that thing is considered to be worth $1000. (likewise if it would cost $1000 to replace, even though you bought it for $25, it's real worth <for insurance> would be the $1000)

An example of that is a auction (Scifi convention art show) where a plushie I made was in the silent auction, with a "buy it now" of $15... it got 5 bids and ended up at the regular shouting auction part of the art show, and went for $50... It was years ago, and I'm STILL amazed. I never found out who the winning bidder was, but he made my heat bill!

I'm sure everyone's already said this, even though there is less materials, we're often using BETTER materials, or materials that cost more because THEY've been specially made.

working small can be a pain, the smaller the outfit the more eyestrain/stress comes up, and the more attention to detail is needed.
For example I can paint a portrait that looks really good at 38 x28 but a little glitch at 1/16th or 1/8th of an inch is INVISIBLE at that scale. at 2.5 in x 3.5 inches, trying to do that same portrait, a 1/16 or 1/32 in glitch is HUGE...and no one can miss it.

Also Stress of working smaller, If I'm making shirts for humans (say for a living) I might be able to make x shirts of good quality /attention to detail, in an hour. Making the same design of shirt to the same level of quality at SD or MSD size means making only 1/2 of X shirts an hour. making something Real Puki size might mean making 1/10 of X shirts per hour and then going home with a headache.


When I'm buying clothes for myself I'm going someplace like TARGET where that shirt/pair of pants is mass produced and sewn somewhere where the payment per hour for the work is considered good pay but is incredibly cheap here. I'm also buying jeans/tshirts/sweatshirts, rather than dress clothes most of the time for me, and fancy outfits for the dolls. (comparing pair of jeans, shirt & sweater to lacy dress with 3 layers and a hat isn't an easy comparison.)

In the case of MANY doll clothes the item is one of a kind, or one of few (compared to the size of batches of Levis for humans for example) so there's another increase in the price. Even when commercially sewn, in the same locations, the doll clothes are produced in such small batches there's rarely the price break for that. (Especially when we can compare similar quality doll clothing mass produced at higher numbers for mass produced dolls that are similar sizes.)

And then there's the "art doll" "collectible" factor... When the American Girl dolls first came out, they were considered (and probably STILL are) a very very special gift for a child. Many buyers are STILL adults buying for themselves. There's similar sized dolls now, mass produced in cheaper production regions, that may be less expensive materials, that are about the same sized and much less expensive. But still not the one that people consider the "collectible" doll.

With human clothing, there's also the factor of I've spent over $100 for a pair of boots (Doc Martens) each pair generally lasts me about 10 yrs. (I've got a pair that are older that I'm hanging on to, to get resoled, because I love them THAT much.)
similar boots bought at $20 from Wallmart didn't hold up for 3 months of wear.

 

As a gigging and recording musician, I'd really love that quote to be tattooed across every art/music related page of the internet. In this day and age it seems that creative endeavor and craftmanship of any sort has been much devalued in every artistic sphere. Every one feels they have a right to beauty in their lives but peculiarly most also seem to believe they have the right to obtain it for free/at a vastly reduced rate.

If you attain a reputation in any sphere that enriches people's lives as art/music/beautiful faceups/clothing etc does, you as an artist have the right to make a living and be paid what you deserve. If you as a client/fan are unhappy with that, then you have the right to go elsewhere. That's the equation.

 

sylvan, yeah... people who don't craft/do art/music thinks it all just sort of happens by magic. So often it seems like there's no accounting for years of schooling, or a lifetime spent, growing up into one's skills.

even "magic" takes a lot of work.
It might not be law school, but it might be learning needlecraft starting at 7-8 years old, and then more in school later on, or even acquiring student loans to go to art/music school.

Why is art/music/craft worth less than what we do in our "day jobs"?

 

Precisely because a lot of people do it as a hobby rather than as their day job. The difference is sometimes not noticed at all. I can't count the number of jewelry shows I've done in which someone comes to my table, looks at the price tags, and snorts at me about how their Aunt Sally makes jewelry, too, and I should write down directions for them to make a copy of what I have on the table for daring to ask the price I do so they can get it more cheaply. (For the cost of cheaper materials only, usually, since rare is the hobbyist that charges - or charges a liveable amount -- for labor.)

 

Cosign. I came here from 20+ years in the model horse hobby, and if you can't understand spending $100+ for a hand-tailored doll outfit you'd faint at the prices I've paid/seen paid for hand-tooled miniature saddles and other tack. It's got to be understood that you're paying for a person's skill, for her/his years of study and experience in her/his craft, not just for the materials involved. One of the most-admired people in the world of model Western tack has spent years just perfecting hand-sewn hackamore knots using waxed floss--never mind what they are--and every one of them looks like a flawless Navaho basket about 1/4" high. When she sells a set, which isn't often, she can get four figures with no problem. I'm nowhere near in her league, but I've gotten $400-$600 for a model horse American Indian costume with matching dressed doll, in 1/6 scale. It takes me a month just to design an outfit and research the tribal beadwork patterns and such, never mind the time it takes to loom the beadwork and do the actual costuming. I'm sure a person doing a Victorian outfit or an anime costume or whichever puts in hours and hours of research and design work before sewing a single stitch, and that's just for the love of it because no one knows quite how to charge for time--or if we did the piece would be too expensive for anyone to buy.

Personally, and it's probably because of the aforementioned experience, I've been amazed (so far) at the prices that artisans in this hobby ask for clothes with such fine tailoring and exquisite details--they seem more than reasonable (bordering on downright cheap!) to me.

 

*nods* It's similar to the decision you make when working with glass beads. Sure, you can get fire-polished Czech glass for 1/5 the price of store-brand lead crystal and 1/10 the price of Swarovski lead crystal, and the Czech glass comes in lots of colors and is nice and shiny. But when you look at them side by side and see the precise cutting and faceting of the Swarovski crystal beads, and their gorgeous snap and sparkle, you wonder why you ever settled for plain polished glass. =)

 

I'm with you. I've been making human-sized costumes for over a dozen years (and I have totally been known to spend weeks on patterns and embroidery design and goodness knows what else before I get to actually start real sewing ), and I've lost count of how many times people have asked to buy one and offered less than half of what I spent on materials alone. Materials aren't cheap to start with, especially good ones (and cheap ones tend to look much tackier on dolls than they do on people because of the scale issues), and - again - people deserve to get paid for their time! It takes years of practice and hard work to get good enough to put out quality clothing, or faceups, or any other kind of artistic work, and that's a huge time investment to not get paid for in addition to the fact that no one wants to pay a decent amount for the labor involved in making a complicated piece. Sometimes people will even act as though trying to make money from one's craft is somehow morally inferior - and yet they'd never think of suggesting to a bank teller or an engineer that they shouldn't get paid for the time they put into their job. But apparently love of art alone is supposed to sustain an artist, or something.

Honestly, making doll clothing is a lot harder for me than making human-sized costumes - partially just trying to control tiny things while sewing them, and partially because any flaw, no matter how tiny, is horribly obvious in doll clothing. If your sewing machine skips one stitch on a human shirt, no one will see it, but you better bet it'll show on a shirt for a doll. And that can mean a lot of time spent doing things over to get them right, too. This is why I haven't managed to make a single doll outfit yet that's even half the quality of what I could make for a person, so I won't even try to sell my work. Maybe someday I'll manage to make something that isn't terrible, but I hope that when I do I can charge at least a little bit for labor and people won't be upset about my prices.

 

I'd mostly echo what other people have said here. I haven't been able to read each & every single post, but it seems like a lot of people are thinking in the same vein as I would.

Also, remember that clothes most of us buy for ourselves are not only mass-produced by people who are paid not-very-much, but they're all made from a pattern, so the seamstress just has to cut the pattern pieces and go from there. There aren't nearly as many patterns out there for BJD-sized clothes, and the variety in body types for the dolls on the market means that people are often making clothes w/o a pattern--which I believe is probably trickier, and more time-consuming, at the very least.

 

also factory made human clothes, made from a pattern... often cut from MANY layers of fabric at once with a specialized SAW.
if it's a big label/factory, the the cutter might be computerized/mechanized as well with over 100 layers of fabric cut at once.

 

Wow. I had no idea! For some reason that sounds really creepy and you-will-be-assimilated to me.

 

Last time I saw it done, there were still humans running the saws, with chainmail gloves to protect their hands...
Now a lot of places have the saws computerized... I have only seen that on video thus far.

Until I got to visit the factory that was making men's pants (Indiana in the 70s) I imagined it was all done one bit at a time with ladies, sewing scissors, paper patterns and big tables: Like my mom did at home!

 

A lot of the time, the expense comes from the time, effort, skill, and cost of materials to make something. I know that when I'm sewing, it's very time-consuming particularly if it's done on a smaller scale. The smaller it is and the more detailed, the more tedious the work becomes. I really appreciate that people will take the time to do small detailing that I sometimes lack the patience for. For example, I can sew, but I can't knit. Therefore, I love to buy knitted things because I know that I couldn't make it myself! XD