Why do people charge so much?

It's really difficult to make tiny things sometimes. I guess it requires more effort.

 

(Opps quote missing... I gotta learn how to do this... I was responding to the idea that Artists/seamstresses/costumers boost prices thinking "doll people have money" because it's an outfit for a $600+ doll.... )

I don't think most crafters do that here, I certainly don't!
Though I find that describing my materials well... (ie: SILK embroidery thread, cashmere,"super soft baby alpaca", etc)
helps people comprehend what goes into the item. (the 2 hrs that go into the amigurumi or teeny doll sweater might not really get the understanding that it should, but people recognize "exotic/luxurious material" = spendy.)

I price my items exactly the same, whether it's online (ETSY) or a Scifi convention art show's silent auction (though I have seen an item I priced at $15 get a bidding WAR going on, so when the item went to the shouting auction it hit $50! It was a convention I couldn't go to, but I would have loved sitting at the back of the room to watch THAT!) ... or a Doll meet/sales thread on a doll forum.

(and sometimes I get excited about someone offering a trade! *oooh I got a KILT for my SD dude! * )

Swivel: yeah, the tiny stuff also takes good reading glasses, a strong work light, and sometimes even a magnifier.... and extra patience. Personally, I've also noticed working tiny makes me SUPER attentive to "craftmanship" since in something so small even a TINY error is really glaring... same kind of error (1/16th inch error) on something LARGE (like human sized sweater) is nearly invisible.

Not necessarily "more work" but a much more focused sort of work.

 

I think I got great deals for my dolls
just the currency thing angered me (it was less then 10 dollars more then the original price as the US dollar is low and, thats awesome for me lol)
Well worth it though

 

Basically, because there's no mass-produced supplier damaging their business, and therefore, they can. You either pay what they're asking, or... have nekked dollies! Like someone else already said, there's no big chain store off-setting things, so people can set their own prices.

Not going outside of the doll hobby, Pullips are suffering from the opposite. In trying to get rid of my collection, I had to sell stuff for twenty-five freakin' cents! Some people who used to make commissioned clothes for them (like Chloe's hoodies) closed up shop, because they found they just couldn't beat the prices of the mass-produced stuff. Even the most "famous" of Pullip seamstresses have been affected -- and some have even moved on to BJDs, because it's easier to make it as a doll seamstress in this hobby.

It's just how any market works. When there's no mass-produced counterpart, people can set their own prices, charging what they think their time is worth.

 

It isn't just about the chain stores. We're talking about a market that is too small for mass production to be feasible for many products. The 'mass' part of 'mass production' is an important factor. The more of an item someone orders from a factory, the less the cost per item, usually, with specific price breaks along the line. Say you send the same design, one for a BJD, and one for a person, to the same factory. One will be sold on MagicSuperPopularBJDsite, and the human shirt will be sold at Target or a similar chain store. I'd actually bet the BJD shirt would cost the person ordering them from the factory as much or more per item despite the lower amount of materials consumed per item because of the quantity factor. 10k of those BJD shirts are not going to sell. 10k human shirts very, very likely will sell quickly through chain stores, possibly an even greater quantity. The number of items ordered is going to vary greatly.

I have to wonder about the phrasing here. "what they think their time is worth"? You've seen the people in this thread offering breakdowns of pricing for the items they have made, and how they often fall short of minimum wage by far, right?

I know what I think my time is worth in a different art field -- what professional associations insist my time is worth, actually, along with various pricing seminars and consultations from business advisors. I can guarantee you I don't actually price by that number, but by a fraction of it instead, to keep costs reasonable for customers who like my work, which is time-intensive.

It is far, far below the numbers I've been quoted. Far below skilled labor. Below what was calculated to be a living wage. It is a bit above minimum wage. Some people still complain quite vocally because it's more than sweatshop labor.

 

Yeah, now that you mention it, that's true too. It wouldn't be feasible for the companies or have their products made in the same quantities as human stores do, because, really, BJD stuff doesn't sell in the same amount human stuff does. It makes me wonder, actually, how many of, say, a specific shirt, does a company end up selling? Would be nice to be able to compare to a well-known clothing store for humans, to see the difference.

I actually didn't mean that in any disrespectful way. What I meant to say is, in this hobby, there isn't an overly strong "Pfft I don't care for handmade, I can get something similar for a third of what you're asking at ______" mentality in the costumers.

When mass-production enters a market, people seem to think that the stuff should then be sold at (or even bellow) cost, just because the mass-produced lines can offer those prices. For example, I used to collect Pullips. In that hobby, it's nigh impossible to make it as a dolly seamstress. Even if you resign to a terribly low hourly wage of, say, $5, there's still no way you would be able to compete with the cheap Barbie clothes. With materials and all, making a small hoodie for a Pullip can maybe run you $10 at that wage. With Barbie selling full outfits for $4, you'll have a hard time finding anyone in the Pullp hobby who's willing to pay $10 for a hoodie -- much less if you decide you want a $5 profit and try selling the for $15. Instead of thinking, "Well, this person probably spend a good few hours making this, so the price is more than justified", people think, "Uhh, no, thanks, I can but two full outfits from Barbie for that!" I've seen many a great seamstress go out of business in that hobby because of this.

I've had to sell stuff like little shirts for twenty-five cents at Pullip BST forums. Why? Because, honestly, the mass-produced clothes lines that are available for those dolls have conditioned the collectors to think it's not worth it to spend more than that. Heck, most people who have bought from me don't even spend over maybe $8 total! The mass-production has definitely had an effect there.

Basically, I think there's a slightly better sense of "this is art, it's not a machine making this, and the people who do this should be compensated for their time" in this hobby, without that option available. I'm not saying what some people get paid is fair, they definitely deserve more. But that problem is mostly due to the economy, not because people can't see what the items are worth. But if we had a mass-produced alternative, it would be way worse.

 

I think the runs must be pretty small, probably 100 or less for most pieces (though maybe more for a company like Volks). The only outfits I can think of that actually say how many were made are the Val Zietler Haute Doll outfits (40 each for the current collection and I think the same for the last one) and Dollheart's Chistmas Yo outfits from the other year (20 each)... I'm sure there have been more with a listed quantity, that's just what I can recall off the top of my head. ^^;

In practice though, most doll outfits seem to be made in a single run and not restocked, even if they aren't specifically listed as being limited to X pieces. Some standard items seem to be remade time and time again (things like socks, underwear, jeans, basic shirts, etc) so these are probably more of those made... but that isn't as common for doll clothes. Usually it seems that once it's gone, it's gone.

As a random point of comparison, Wikipedia says Gap has 3,465 stores around the world! O_O If each store sells only 3 of a specific item that's already 10,000 sold! Wikipedia also lists that H&M has "around 2,000 stores", Walmart had 6,200 stores in 2005, and Target had 1,488 in 2006, to pick a few more popular national/international stores for clothing. There's no way clothing for dolls could ever come close, quantity-wise, to the large and popular chain stores for people clothing!

 

This is a great topic with a lot of great, valid responses.

First off, sewing for dolls and people is part of how I make my living.
I don't have employees and I'm not backed by some corporate mega monster or something and there is no "mass production" going on in the sewing chamber of my house. I don't get crazy discounts on any of my materials, whether that be fabrics, thread, buttons, trim, (also known as "notions"), etc. And strangely, even simple stuff like quality thread and buttons are not cheap.

Just walk into a local fabric store when you get a chance, go to the button section and see how much the nice buttons cost... You know the fancy ornate ones made of metal or the lovely ones made of carved woods or bone or antler. You get 2-3 buttons per pack and that one pack might cost $3-6. Now imagine an overcoat that calls for 10-12 buttons and vest that might call for 4-6 buttons and a nice dress shirt to go under that which calls for another 8...and do the math on just the cost of buttons alone and some things will become clear to you.

Now some seamstresses in some countries have access to really nice notions on the cheap but I'm not privy that sort of luck here in the Southern United States. Here in the states, our fabric stores know you've only got so many options and its sad that soooo much of the stuff on the shelves here in the states is imported from other countries, so the crafter is charged accordingly.

I'm a one woman show from concept-birth to assembly to final photo shoot to product packaging and mailing.

And yes, often, my ensembles are limited editions. I don't make an ensemble more than 4-6 times and this has to do with the amount of fabric and notions I can afford at the time of product conception. Some fabrics are also seasonal and I can only get them at certain times etc.

Sewing for dolls (and getting it right) is hard work, my friends. Real hard work entailing timed and effort. It actually takes me more time and effort to sew a multi-piece ensemble for a Asian Ball Jointed Doll than it does sewing a simple dress for a woman size 6-8 (u.s.).

The small scale is hell on the hands and the eyes too, lol.

Now don't get me wrong: I love sewing for dolls. I actually get a "rush" when an ensemble is all done and its time to take the photos and then I suffer separation anxiety when it sells and its time to package all that wonder-stuff! I'm sure many a doll seamstress can attest to these facts.

Our course, since the economy is kinda stinky right now (and I know so many folks are on tight budgets), I plan to pair down the number of garments in my ensembles so I can get the prices down to something more accessible to a larger number of folks.
I understand that steep prices can seem like a pain and there are some seamstresses that charge a crazy amount for an ensemble that's only like three pieces in total. I always thought that was kinda wrong so I make my ensembles with oodles of items so you get more bang for your buck...But, in the end, all you have to do is take a trip to a fabric store and look at the prices of materials to understand why doll seamstresses charge what they do. Hope this sheds some light on the cost realities.

 

Seconding this, and absolutely every other word.

I was making fashion doll clothes for sale for about 2 years about a decade ago, and they are in some ways simpler than BJD clothing due to the limited range of motion of most fashion dolls -- certain concepts like ease, a factor for human clothing (and BJD clothing) aren't as much a factor, and it affects every part of the process from design onward. And there are a lot of fussy issues like that, all of which are, in part, 'learn by doing', too. (And experience can be the most expensive teacher of all!)

All that extra work isn't something to ignore, either. All that time taken to take photos, set up lights, arrange a web page... it really does add up. And the smaller the edition, the fewer pieces there are to spread the very real cost of that time over.

 

A lot of it is how much time someone puts into an article. Not being mass produced and being custom means it takes a lot more time to make! Since I can sew I will probably end up making all of my dollie's clothes- I get exactly what I want, it's cheaper, and I know it will fit perfectly. If you can't sew, see something you really like, or don't want to sew it you are basically buying that person's time along with the cost of materials.

Not to say all designers charge this way, some of them overprice just because they know people will pay it. Many underprice- they don't realize their own worth.

 

i think the reason that peopple have expensiver prices than others, is that they feel that the things that they have made, or have possessed, are worth more than someone elses stuff, not to mention there are some people that only up their prices to get more money and dont care, not to mention the people in this world that scam people because they want to see if someone would pay super expensive for something that isnt that expensive other places.

often times if an item is hand made the person assumes that it is truly more one of a kind than other items and for this one of a kind feature, you MUST pay more because it keeps the one of a kind alive! im not a seller of anything yet, but i do believe that people that sell things for "too much" often times think that they are selling it for the right price as well as giving u what u payed for when they ship it to you or whatever. i really think that a lot of people are money hungry because they have to pay money hungry companies(bills) and so they up the price a bit more to there likings, because well there are some people that just see something and want it, no matter what the price, and will buy it. XD

 

I think everything I want to say has been said, oh, maybe 500 times, but the tiny intense detail that will make you go friggin blind from straining, the materials, and... ya know, it's all been said before XD

 

Is this factoring in original designs and the unique 'one of a kind' or special tailored requests that some seamstresses do? Or are we only debating about shirts that even custom DOA seamstresses make again and again in the same pattern?
Cuz, while I don't really know, competitive pricing isn't always taken into account when you're dealing with the word 'custom.' Maybe against other 'custom' but that's where one's particular level of skill really starts to shine, I'd think.

 

In keeping costs down when making doll clothes I re-cycle materials. I visit thrift shops. It is amazing what you can find there.
Especially the material. Some materials are very expensive, so finding a silk blouse in a thrift shop which can be made into a dolls outfit is good. Same with brocade material, and other items such as doilies that can be made into undergarments, and also over shirts, skirts, even lace sleeves. :-)

 

I can understand people charging a lot for clothing. I have made doll clothes myself and the cost of material, bindings, fastenings and linings is a lot. Specially for larger dolls. And the tiny detail and hand sewing isn't easy either.

But what I don't get is eyes. I recently brought some eyes fro £15 only to discover that all they were was some printed card behind the central glass and then glossed.
I could have done that.
And in fact I did, I took them apart and re-modded them the way I wanted but I would never pay £15 for eyes again. Not when you can buy them blank for a couple of pounds and then just print an eye patern on some photo paper and slot it in.

 

There's a certain amount of time and effort that goes into developing a pattern. As a seamstress, if I was selling, say, a long-sleeved t-shirt that I was making over and over again it would be much more reasonably priced than the OOAK steampunk outfit whose pattern I wouldn't be using again, because the time and effort spent in developing the pattern would be spread over many garments.

 

Isabeau - yes exactly~ I would think a lot of dollie clothes are custom and that would certainly inflate the price and justify it at least to an extent. Also as popular as dolls may be you don't have the market you have for humans, even shirts you'd make again and again aren't going to be selling as many copies. As you say, I'm sure developing a pattern at all for a BJD is time consuming enough in it's own right.

 

This is really very much time consuming, and no wonder why the prices are so high. Personally, I don't think it is even worth selling hand-made clothes for bjds for a living. I turned selling patterns instead because you can sell a good pattern as much as you can find buyers, and can reduce the price if necessary.

 

If you shop around you can get some really good deals i find. I know i don't pay as much as a lot of people do for doll clothes.
But to be honest it is why i tried to sew my own doll clothes the price i was willing to pay for them went up because it is really hard work. It is hard to work with because they are so small. Plus i like things to look good so lovely clothes with details in them, so it took a lot of out me to make some.

I don't mind paying extra money if the details on the clothes are going to be really nice, sometimes it is really worth it. I will be honest in the fact i think sometimes what i have seen been charged for simple things has been ridiculous sometimes. But that comes to a case of shopping around and weighing up if you think the cost is worth it.

But the base price of them being a little more then or as much as human clothes, i can see why because even though there is less material in a lot of cases it is the same amount of work, just a lot of fiddly, which is why i am not surprised there is little difference in the cost of MSD clothes and SD clothes.

But i will be brutally honest with one thing, i can think it is a shame to see beautiful dolls, in clothes that LOOK cheap. I think it brings it down a little. Since we spend so much on these dolls, spending that bit more on pretty outfits doesn't seem that bad.

 

I find eyes and clothes very important. I'm very picky when it comes to clothes. I love doll clothes that have amazing sewing detail, unique patterns, thoughtful choice of colors, materials and fabrics.
Also style is important there are not many doll clothes makers that I fancy that much cause the style is either too casual or too genre related (lolita, punk, kei etc.).
I try to mix and match from different people who's work I like. So far these days I stick to Ospirit and Yoake (Angel Candy rock).
I adore 'Ospirit's' work cause she spends attention to details and spends a lot of time on her patterns.
It's never just a simple design the item always has a little extra, also she packs her items superbly.
Also I luv Ospirit material choice, she pays attention to the size of the print and how to combine that with materials that may compliment, exaggerate or contrast against it.
I think most people are not bothered by these detailed but I am prob. cause I can't wear these kind of clothes XD I'd wear them if I could :3.
I luv Yoake's work cause she always surprises me with new items and then she'll come with the cutest tops, dresses or shorts hehe.

Anyways I think doll clothes are important especially since I didn't care when I started this hobby but realized I was never satisfied with the dolls over all look.
Also I think urethane and japanese glass eyes by Silver and Hitomiya are my favorites. Eyes are also important to me cause if the eyes are the right color..I'll usually never touch them again. It's out of curiosity that I try new eyes but it actually is just stupid since I hardly switch the eyes when I'm satisfied =_=..

Although prices can be high it's not like I don't want a better deal purchasing stuff but when something is unique or released in a limited quantity I have less trouble spending on it. But I try not to max out..I would never pay more than 200$ (inc. shipping) for an outfit anymore *couch* *d@3n* u h.naoto stole all my moolah once XD.

But these days I'm dead poor I can't afford Silver eyes T_T..I did bought a load of Ospirit clothes a couple years ago that are still packed. I've never once wanted to sell them that's how much I like her details and stuff looking at it already makes me happy lol..
omg so sad..haha
But I have a doll now which is out for a sand job cause she was a little yellowed..in the old days I'd sell and rebought the doll but alas dead poor so I don't have the strength to be without a doll again or the moolah to go through all the trouble *sight*.

Again perfect outfit, perfect eyes is just worth it ;D(to me at least XDhehe)!

ps:I'll take pics to show details I like..