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Why do people charge so much?

Oct 12, 2007

    1. Precisely. It's all about quality. Yes, you can pull some outfit off a doll of similar height in Toys'r'us for $15, but it will probably lack detail, be made out of cheap fabric and in a style that no real person over the age of 5 (or not living 15 years in the past) would be caught dead wearing. It's not realistic, or very nice to look at. When you see an outfit set by a particularly talented seamstress going for more than many people would want to spend on a whole doll, for me, the appeal is:

      #1 Uniqueness--part of what makes collecting BJDs fun is how incredibly customizable they are! It would be boring if everyone with an MSD had them in the exact same jeans, tee, and sneakers.
      #2 Detail--compare a pair of Mio jeans with a pair of jeans on Dollmore or any other low-cost clothing seller (err, I'll avoid the issue of factory labor for the moment.) Mio's pants fit on dolls like real pants fit on people--they have extensive detailing and embroidery. They're a work of art in themselves!

      I won't get into the issues of cost + labor, cause I think everyone's covered it so well. For face-ups, I usually feel like I'm getting an incredible deal, even if it ends up costing over $100. Most face-up artists are making well below minimum-wage per hour.

      In the end, for me... it all comes down to, "Why cheap out and adorn this doll that I spent hundreds of dollars on in stuff that looks tacky?" I definitely understand the shock... I never used to understand why anyone would spend $100 on a pair of eyes, when there were plenty for $5, $20, $30 that didn't look so different. Then I got a pair of Zoukeimura eyes and put them in a doll, and put that doll next to my other dolls. The difference was incredible--I was so impressed by their beautiful clarity and depth... it completely changed the look of the doll. In the end, the doll itself is only a small percentage of what you see--it's just the base. What you're really looking at is the face-up, the clothes, the wig, the eyes...

      For a cake to be really good, the cake itself has to be good, but the frosting's gotta be good too. Gross frosting will ruin the whole taste of the cake! ;)

      But I also know that some people aren't as picky about looks... I'm a very superficial person in the sense that I like things to be as elaborate and beautiful as they can possibly be. Aesthetics are very important in my life. But that's why this hobby appeals to me. There will probably always be people like me though, and our demand for the excessively detailed and quality stuff will probably mean there'll always be high-priced stuff around... :lol:
       
    2. Clothes for dolls are more difficult to make then clothes for humans, because it is so small. I make my tiny's clothes completely bij hand, because I can't do the details with the sewingmachine; it is just to small. For my SD's on the other hand the sewing machine can be used. ^_^

      I also make plushies. I charge for my bats € 10 / $ 14,20. I use the sewingmachine and also sew them by hand (the things that can't be done by the machine). a plushie takes me +- 2 hours.
      But my plushies are unique and made with care, nothing like a plushie that you can buy for $ 3 in a shop.
       
    3. I'm probably repeating a lot of what other people have said, but here goes...

      You are paying for not just the cost of materials (which varies, and isn't always cheap), but also the artist's time and skill. To become good at what they do, they've had to put a lot of time and effort in, and deserve to be compensated for that. Very nice doll clothes are also highly detailed, and getting that level of detail in an article of clothing that small isn't easy--it's easier to sew for human people.
       
    4. Pretty much what everyone else has said so well, especially by Filovirus.

      A person working on their own or a small company for a start will pay far more for the materials than a big factory. Hell a factory will have such huge buying power as they get stuff in bulk they would be able to buy in the materials, make the item, and be able to sell it at a profit for less than a small business or one person can even buy their materials for.

      Stuff that's mass produced is also quite often made my machines and machines don't need sleep, they don't get tired, get sore eyes, backs, heads, don't feel ill, don't have to get their kids off to school.... they pretty much run at the same pace and standard 24/7. Humans on the other hand can't do that.
      Human however can notice when something is wrong, can decide to change the way something is made or looks, can improve things.

      Therefor quality handmade goods will to my mind always be worth extra as they have been made with love, skill and attention, that is something worth far more than money can buy.
       
    5. Lots of good answers already!
      I sew for dolls and have to factor in three things; cost of materials (sometimes high as I'll work with silk velvet or embroidered dupioni that's at least $20+/yard), my skill level, and cost of my time.
      I'm a stay-at-home-Mom, that does not mean that time is plentiful, in fact I get asked by friends who are moms how do I find the time (two children are pre-K, one is a teen). So my time really is worth something. What I make is not just sold to support my doll habit, but to help make ends wave at each other here at home.
      Skilled labor is worth something - I think we forget that in our throw-away society where shopping is an entertainment more often than a planned for necessity. One of the reasons I'm really enjoying BJDs more than other dolls I've collected is because I know skilled artisans are getting paid more decently for their work than the factory employees that make mass-market plastic collectible dolls.
       
    6. While at first glance, i completely agree that its pure insanity to pay 50$ for, lets say an MSD sized pair of jeans...but then you start noticing little details, and how everything is made properly an dlooks realistic. Add in the labor costs as every is saying, and they're probably UNDERcharging.

      As usual, i'm underestimating my sewing projects. Anytime i decide to make something for myself, i always design it and think "oh, that wont be hard!" ...then a few hours later i'm cursing at some part of it, wondering just how i managed to mess it up or why the eff the hem binding is pulling off or something. Over the past few days, i designed this cute outfit for my doll that i intend to make for her, but i know it'll drive me crazy. It includes a skirt, a vest, a hat, and a long-sleeved pullover poloish shirt. Witha collar. I was making the pattern last night, and i came to the collar...and realized that i'm probably handsewing that pain in the &%(&*. And i'm still trying to figure out how i'm going to attach the sleeves. My mom thinks i'm nuts ^^;

      Anyway, after things like that i realize that spending 100 for a full outfit is a really good deal, especialy if someone handmade it themselves.
       
    7. As everyone else has said on this topic so far, doll clothes are expensive because of the amount of effort, time and practise that has to go into creating them.

      If your worried about your dolly sitting around naked, there are companies like Dollmore who sell cheap clothes for $20. Of course as with everything, you get what you pay for. The more the clothes cost, the better the quality. There are some company outfits costing well over $100, but when you see them in person and you can see the difference in craftsmanship.

      The BJD community is far from a cheap one. I agree with Filovirus in every tense. I would much rather pay more money for high quality goods. BJD's are beautifull things, resin itself can only represent so much. Having a handmade outfit by a quality seamstress is something else entirely.

      I personally think in the modern age of mass-production that people forget how much skilled labour is worth. Don't feel bad about making a topic like this, not everyone wants to pay such high price tags for their dolls clothing and there's really nothing wrong with that. But remember when looking at the tags that your not just paying for the outfit, your paying for the material and skills, whether it be outfits or face-ups. Both require skills in different areas (and i know i've tried and failed so mucho respect to the people who can)
       
    8. Wow.. I kinda feeel bad for what I am about to say.. but here it is.
      I agree wholeheartedly with what everyone one says.
      But as someone who worked hard to save every penny I had for my first doll, it can be hard to get their wardrobe started. I was lucky enough to be able to sew. But it was for those people, the ones who have to save like crazy, that I sell my things so inexpencively. Most of my stuff range from $9.99 to less than $75. I think my work is good, and I have a lot of repeat customers. ( only sell on ebay ). I serge all the esges that I can, and put detail into my work. Most of the time, I include jewelry, and when possible, matching shoes. I do make a small profit, because I am working with fabric I already have (been a cosplayer for far too many years).
      I have seen some outfits I would love to have, and they are very expensive, and worth every cent.
      I guess what my point is, that less expensive does not always mean "cheap". Sometimes what you pay for, is not always what you get, sometimes you get more!
       
    9. I don't know, I just don't see myself paying $60 more than what I have to for eyes. I mean, it's pretty hard finding 12mm eyes anyways. I guess I'm not a die hard collector either, but if I was, I wouldn't have any money for myself.
       
    10. RE: What?! How can anyone charge $60 for a set of eyes? Okay, now that is steep (no offense to anyone here). Heck, I've seen glass eyes run anywhere from $20 to $30, but not $60? Where did you find a set of eyes that cost $60?
       
    11. Some of the glass eyes (like those on Luts) are in a lower price range, but the extremely-detailed glass and urethane eyes by Zoukeimura and Enchanted Angels go for far more. I saw a gorgeous pair of glass eyes on the marketplace once, with beautiful threading, that changed from green near the iris to blue around the outside of the pupil. They were sold for over $100, but they had beautiful color, depth, and realism that some of the $20 or $30 glass eyes can't capture. I personally am a bit hesitant to pay so much for eyes because I change my dolls' eyes a lot. But I can see why they price difference is there. There are a couple of other companies/artists selling the more expensive eyes, as well, but those two seem to be most popular.
       
    12. Urethane eyes generally run for $60 and high quality glass sell for much more like that(for example, Zouks go for $100-$150). Having two pair of $60 eyes, I can tell you it's totally worth it, the eyes make your doll seem so very much alive *_*
       
    13. I've just recently started sewing for my SD size Girl and learned that it is very time consuming, especially if you are creating your own patterns like I am. Even adjusting current patterns for a proper fit takes time.

      You wouldn't think that a pair of PJ would take that long but I spent at least 4 hours last Saturday sewing them up. At least an hour of that was hand sewing and tweeking and that doesn't include the time that it took to pin the patterns to the fabric and to cut them out.

      I made a sweater and plaid skirt for her yesterday. The skirt took the longest because I had to pleat it by hand and then ease it into the top yoke of the skirt only to find out that the lining on the skirt (which I should have waited to attach) wasn't right. In all I spent approximately 5-6 hours tweeking that darn skirt.

      I also made a decorated victorian hat for Odelia last week and I spent at least 6 hours hand stiching on all of the ribbon, trim, feathers, lace etc... if I were to charge minimum wage it would cost $45 just for the time that I had invested and then at least another $12 for supplies.

      Granted that it needs to be kept in mind that this is the first time that I had made any of these items. So there will be some adjusting that needs to be done. If I were to continue making these items then I might be able to get the PJs down to 2 hours, the skirt down to an hour, though the hat would probably still take about 4 hours because of all the hand stitching that needs to be done.
      Even if that were to happen, if someone were to order the PJs, Sweater & skirt set, & a hat the combined time to make them would still cost about $60.

      The thing that surprises me is that people will charge a couple hundred dollars for a SD size gown or outfit. That was until I started working on a dupioni silk gown for my Odelia. I now realize that these gowns can use a lot of fabric. Then add in the lace that I am going to use its pretty expensive.

      Keep in mind through this that I have been sewing for about 23 years now and I am a perfectionist with my art. I'm not going to just throw something together. I make sure that all of my seams are finished and that the cuffs & hems are hand stitched correctly just like I would if I were making clothes for myself.

      The suggestion for most people is to figure out what your supplies and time are worth and then double that.
      Problem is unless you do exceptional work no one is going to want to pay that price for it. unless you have a specific target market which is what you have with the BJD collectors, even then the pricing can be iffy.

      Since I now know first hand how hard it is to sew for BJDs I can understand the cost of the clothing but I have to agree with the ridiculous cost on some of the eyes. Even worse is the cost of shoes. Now I understand that they are tiny which makes them hard to make but when you have one website selling a pair of SD size Rocking Horse shoes for $80 and then another site has the exact same shoes for $30 it makes you wonder what the heck is going on.
      I won't spend $80 for a pair of shoes for myself let alone for my doll. that's just crazy.
       
    14. The price depends on how well person does the work, how long does it take and how mutch did supplies cost. Almost always the bigger price gives you better quality. But if you don't want to pay too mutch, there are plenty of people who do stuff for free. And some do it very well.
       
    15. The why of it is all about the effort involved. I can attest to that with my rather comical attempts at sewing. And some relatively minor neck modding that had my hands crampy for two days afterward. :sweat

      You have to decide for yourself what your limits are and go from there. Clothes wise, what I do is make sure everyone has a casual outfit. Separates are relatively inexpensive and usually made from durable materials. And as they aren't quite as detail intensive, you've got a range of choices from decent seamstresses. Then you can start looking at more pricey outfits. Since your doll's not butt naked, some of the urgency is off, and it's easier to be patient, find exactly what you want, and round up the means to pay for it. Then, your expensive, and sometimes delicate, outfits can be reserved for special occasions, photo shoots, etc.

      Also, never underestimate the power of stalking a bargain. More than once I have benefitted from another collector that bought something, found it didn't work, left it in a drawer, and went to off-load it a year later for a steal just to get rid of it. Hee. Eyes, wigs, clothes, all brand name. You just have to be patient, and quick.

      Eyes seem to be, more than anything, a matter of personal preference. Some people won't use anything but acrylics. Some are sillicone die-hards, others swear by urethane or glass. Personally I like them all for different reasons, and owning a variety of molds from different companies, my belief is there isn't a one-size fits all. The expensive glass eyes that look beautiful in my Fin won't fit in my Nanuri. So I had to find another solution for her.

      It's just a matter of deciding what you want and how much you're willing to pay for it.
       
    16. That's been my experience with eyes--there are acrylics and silicone eyes I love, glass eyes I love, glass eyes that have totally turned my off and acrylics that were just meh. There is so much eye variation out there. And to top things off, it isn't just a matter of fit. I'll have a pair of eyes I think looks great for someone, put them in, and find that they aren't right at all. In someone else they might look great, but not the doll that needed them. However, when you get the eyes that are right for that doll, whatever they cost or are made out of, it is so totally worth it.

      I'm in the process of upgrading my dolls' wardrobes. The longer I've been in the hobby, the more willing I am to put money into clothing for them. Suddenly, a lot of the stuff I had wasn't good enough for my tastes anymore (and it has been really bothering me), so I'm in the process of replacing the items that lack detail, don't fit as well, or aren't in good shape. My suggestion for people on a budget is to by seperates or outfits that can be easily mixed and matched. That way you can put together multiple outfits from just a few really nice pieces.
       
    17. For me I dont care about prices as long as I get good quality worth what i pay. The better quality and more complex the more the price is.
       
    18. While the old adage "you get what you pay for" is often true, it's also not a general rule to follow. I've had some very expensive outfits by name designers that were not finished very well & some inexpensive outfits that were surprizingly well made. Unfortunately, once someone gets known, some tend to think that their name alone will sell things. Now before you jump all over me, I'm not saying this is always the case but I have seen it happen more than once.

      Also, I would never call Dollmore's clothes cheap in either price or contruction. Pricewise they tend to cost about what the human equivalent would be (I know, that's often inexpensive for doll clothes but not cheap by any means), have creative designs, are detailed & are all professionally finished. For the price I find them to be an excellent value & generally much better than most mid-range seamstresses.

      Someone mentioned items being made by machine but clothes, in whatever size, are sewn by people. So far there's no such thing as a machine that will do that by itself so there's nothing running 24/7 all alone. They are usually cut out in volume by a machine but again, that needs a human operator to set up & actually use. And detail work is done essencially the same way private individuals do it, by hand. The difference in cost is because they are made overseas where labor is much cheaper.

      As far as why designer clothes are generally expensive, people both here & in Japan, Australia & Europe are used to a higher wage than those in other parts of the Orient. Some people do get on by name alone but most take time & skilled labor to produce their items. Also, you can get something that no one else has & can often commission an item made to your own specifications. While personally I don't find sewing doll clothes any more difficult than than human ones & even find a number of advantages to it (dolls are available for 2am fittings), it does take time & is fussy. Plus just finding fabric than will drape properly can be a big effort by itself. And as for myself, that generally means using the best fabrics I can find, real silks, wools, linen & 100% cottons. For the most part these aren't things that you can just pick up at your local Joann's. (Though I have found some nice at their larger stores as well.)

      So in the end, you're paying for highly skilled labor, beautiful fabric & uniqueness. Making the patterns alone can take hours not to mention the time the detail & finishing take. When you're buying the best, doll clothes aren't really that expensive compared to human sized ones & much, much less than a designer charges for a human client. As someone else stated, there's really no Walmart for doll clothes.
       
    19. Not really a lot I could add to this, so I'll just take my hat off and bow to those who have already said it better than I probably could.

      Difficulty of making things in doll size, materials, a decent hourly rate for labour and the love that goes into creation, skill levels.... all things that figure into cost.
       
    20. Something no one has mentioned yet that occurs to me (and adds significantly to the difficulty of making clothes for these dolls): They move!

      I've sewn for antique and collectible dolls of different types over the years, but it's a different thing entirely sewing for dolls that can actually 'move' like people. It's not enough that the clothing piece "look good" on something standing stiffly as most dolls do, but the piece must now "move with the doll" when it's posed. A whole different set of rules come into play there!

      Raven