Why do people charge so much?

Gwy, It really does depend what the comparence is to. Im saying like for instance dollhearts clothing is pricey but very nice. But if u buy from something cheap like i consider 10-20 dollars cheap for a full outfit from a actual company. Then it would most likely be less quality. However this doesnt imply to non company people who make comissions on forums i only meant company wise cause i know alot of single people do make things for reasonable prices and there adorable

 

I have to say, with doll clothes and especially eyes, it's a lot like everything else in the world- higher price doesn't always mean higher quality. That said, you still are likely to get eyes that look halfway decent at $30 than at $2.99... It's all a matter of shopping smart and doing your homework.
Another factor in the price of doll clothes is finding materials in scale, especialy clasps, findings, buckles and trims. Often when you find these things, they're flippin' expensive, so you either try to use as few of them as you can, or you put them in and up the price to try and pay for them, then someone comes along and tries to scold you for charging that price for something for a doll, when they could make it themselves for so much less, and really the only people who would ever buy anything for their doll are people too lazy to make it themselves... *ahem* Sorry, got that one once, and it's a sore subject.
Anyway, I believe it really is a matter of looking at the actual quality of the item insted of the price to see if it's worth it, but I heartily congratulate anyone in this market who's skills are recognized and can actually stay in the black....

 

Until you have actually tried to sew something for a doll you really have no idea how difficult it is. I am a designer by trade, and an experienced seamstress, but when I started making Kazimir's clothes I realized that techniques I would normally use on human clothing had to be adapted for such a small scale.

Setting in a sleeve with a doll sized shoulder pad is no piece of cake you barely have room to manoeuver your sewing machine foot in there. Same goes for the 1/4" wide collar stands and plackets etc... The worse are those welt pockets that you see on suit jackets, you get one chance to make it right, if not, you just scrapped the whole front of the jacket and get to start over.

I have no problem with people charging what they charge for clothing, most of the time I am thinking I would rather buy it at that price than make it myself, because I know from experience that they are not making a lot of money per hour on it. Nobody should be giving away their time, labour is worth something. You would not dream of working for $2.00 an hour to earn a living would you? So why should artisans settle for it.

Personally I don't buy a lot of stuff, but when I do buy I would rather purchase one exquisitely made original item than five run of the mill cheaper ones. Just my 2 cents

 

I'll answer too! My custom doll outfits can easily run around $250-$300, which is more than you would spend on a t-shirt and jeans, sure, but if you were to buy a high-quality specially tailored outfit for yourself you could easily spend that much. Truth is as much labor goes into making a detailed doll outfit for these bigger dolls as one that is full size for a real person. Material cost is a very small part of the overall end product. Its certainly a perfectly legitimate question! I think that with the advent of these less expensive dolls, like the new Fantasy doll that only costs $180 for the whole thing and is pretty nice!!, that owners of those dolls are thinking omg that outfit is more than my doll! So there is a shock value where that is concerned. Conversely, I find it somewhat amusing to see a doll that cost $1000 with a $4.99 build-a-bear wardrobe.

 

I know I cant sew and I accept that fact and I only want my doll to have high quality clothing so naturally i buy from people who can sew. It doesnt mean im lazy it means its not one of my talents and i dont want to make something less quality then they deserve.

 

I think only one person has mentioned profit. Besides the cost of time and materials, which already add a considerable block to an items price, while doll items may be "fun" for someone to make, they often need to at least be SLIGHTLY profitable for the person to ever want to do it again. What is the standard in small biz.? 20%? It seems like in this hobby, more than some of my others, there is a push to be seen as uninterested in profits or gains, which I just can't understand. It costs someone Time and Materials to make $20 jeans? I hope they at least charge $25....

 

Something else to keep in mind in the sewing department. I spend a lot of time just trying to figure out what design would look best or what fabrics and trims to use. And it usually changes along the way and again I have to spend time trying to figure out what direction I want to go in. Now if I made the same exact thing again, it would take me half the time because the design is already figured out. Even though it's the same exact thing. This is why OOAK items are often more expensive.

 

Usually the first time I do a design, there is little to no profit 'time wise', as far as...was it worth my time to do it sort of thing. But the moment you start having a large enough collection of patterns to work with, it cuts down on time immensely and the profit gets higher because I get faster.

 

So true. I was at TRU one time, and they were selling off all of their 1/6 no-brand doll outfits for less than 1$ each.. I bought around 12-15 outfits since some of the pieces looked nice, and I'd give whatever I didn't want to my little cousins to play with.. I actually ended up keeping most of the pieces. They were surprisingly well-made. The jeans even had top-stitching and details like working front and back pockets, buttons and serging.. The fabric was great and didn't stain.. I was extremely impressed.

I can't stay the same for some company name brand clothing.. Makes me feel a bit ill when I get company brand and it's less than quality and stains. Especially if it's stock clothing..

 

"The more expensive the clothes, the better the quality." That's not necessarily true. Name brands are what sell, not its quality. Even here in DoA, it's a person's popularity that gets them consumers. At first, these big name company and people started out small, but once they've sought recognition, their skills, talent, designs, etc become accredited as "professional". Once that happens, they pretty much have the power to set their prices because everyone has accepted them as "professional". Some will set higher prices, some won't. It depends on the company/individual's purpose for being in the doll hobby.

Personally, I think that over pricing is to produce profits.

Someone's explanation of this demand on page 2 (?) explains the price setting for clothes, but only for a single stock. I mean, imagine how'd much money the company will produce if they had 200 shirts for $35. It'll probably be more than that what they paid for the supply since wholesale supplies are cheaper than retail.

Also, in this world, there is no such thing as fair. Because we live in this Western world, we'd like to believe that things should be fair. Like people shouldn't get pay less because they put lots of time and effort in making/producing/creating clothes or eyes, or wigs, etc because that wouldn't be right. Unfortunately, the economy (and the real world) don't work that way.

We, as consumers, have the power to pull the market economy up or down. If you support X's company's expensive clothes, they will continue to sell the clothes at that price and will probably feel inclined to raise it some more if demand is extremely high *coughLutscough*. As someone have already assummed, doll companies probably think it's not much to pay for clothes since the dolls are so expensive. That's the doll company's assumptions. If consumer buys their clothes at that price, then their assumption will be valid and they will continue to make large profits. So if everyone buys from the company with expensive clothes, you're basically supporting their expensive prices. If a large number of people choose not the buy it, then the prices will go down. So..if you dont want things to be overcharged, you should ask a large group of people not to buy from it and eventually they will reduce the price.

Like I've said early, consumer has the power to pull down the market or push it up. Business are catering to consumer's demand so if you dont like it, dont feel ashame to buy it because it's your money. In the market, it's highly competitive and both consumer and business fends for themselves, so dont feel obliged to buy if you don't have to. Consumers have that liberty to choose.

And this is just my opinion (like everything here, haha) but I feel that using labor, effort and time to justify the expensive cost for small companies or individual business doesn't apply to everyone because it can vary with individual differences. Ability for one can vary. Some people will become quite skilled at sewing, doing aesthetic, designing, etc and so the time spent will be reduced rather than lengthened (again, this will vary for people). These experienced and "professional" people can produce clothes quickly or paint faster than a beginner, but still set prices higher. In this case, their time and effort isn't the same as a beginner, rather their time and effort is actually less. But the experienced and productive people charges more because they claim it takes "time and effort". In the end, what you're really paying for is their experience, not necessarily their quality. You're paying more for an experienced person rather than amateur even tho quality might be similar. The only difference is their background. And the more experienced and productive people are making more profit because consumers support the expensive price tag by buying items/clothes/etc from them.

However, you can argue about quality, but I'm pretty sure a large majority of seamstress, faceup artists, doll companies, etc will argue that their products or results are of good quality for that price. Or else they wouldn't be selling in the first place. I'm not against small business, so don't get me wrong. It's just that because of their expensive prices that doesn't meet demands plus several other factors (reputation, workers, location, etc), they go out of business. Wal-Mart, as someone has mentioned, whether you like this store or not, was smart enough to listen to demand, and thus gained popularity.

I think when it all comes down to it, it's just a matter of making profit. Faceup artists and seamstress are business people when they gain monetary values from this "hobby". Sure, doll collecting is a hobby, but it's an expensive one and a money making one too that we should all keep in mind to prevent getting scammed, cheated or decieved.

SailorLimaBean: "It seems like in this hobby, more than some of my others, there is a push to be seen as uninterested in profits or gains, which I just can't understand." - I think that's just a facade that masks the greed this hobby can create and manifest. That's probably not a bad thing tho because if greed gets out of hand, it can be hard to control.

 

I've had people tell me that I'm overpriced, and I've been told that I'm not charging enough. I charge enough to make it worth my time. If it wasn't worth my time I wouldn't do it. I'd just go out and get a job somewhere.

I'm sure that there are newcomers with the same level of skill as me, and I'm sure that once they get a client base, they'll either charge what their time is worth, or they will quit. My favorite faceup artist started out at $25 faceups, and I was happy to give her my custom. I'm equally happy to give her my custom at $50 per faceup, because I know she does quality work, and I fully believe that her work is worth what she charges. I pay Mio $50 a pop for a jean skirt because of the detail she puts into each item. The embroidery, the tiny change pocket, the custom dyeing, the silkscreening, the aging and distressing she does on each item.

Experience IS worth more. Some people have pointed out that there is no dollie Walmart, but there sort of is. Friends to be Made clothing is a cheap and easily found alternative to the seamstresses here, at least for minis. Mio is kept really busy. Evenstar sells everything she paints. In my opinion, they deserve the money they make.

 

Maybe some will disagree and say I'm completely wrong, but I'm going to throw this out there anyway.

It is an expensive hobby. And a lot of us are saving for something. The price of services and goods reflect that, in my opinion since in some cases, whether or not we can make a sale of our own goods depends on whether or not we can purchase the doll, or outfit, or what have you that we've been eyeing.

The materials that go into making clothes or into doing a faceup are pretty inexpensive when you stop to consider it. True, the pigments you're airbrushing with may cost $25 a tube but how much are you using in a project? A fraction of the volume. And how much is the customer being charged? Enough to cover the initial cost of the materials, plus work time, generally. The same goes for fabrics.

In all fairness, freelancing artists generally charge about $40 to $60 an hour for their work, a lot more should they have a degree and oodles of experience, but at the same time.... Some would say that craft based work doesn't demand the same going rate. Traditionally, it doesn't and when you step back and look at some other model based hobbies painting and sculpting services go for far less than the same service within the BJD world. However, there are many involved in the BJD hobby and there are fewer who are able to sew and paint. So it also comes down to supply and demand.

The problem is, someone out there once asked a high price and got it. And anyone asking a much lower price is, as a result, taken advantage of in a way since they can produce the same good, and for arguments sake, with the same care and quality. It is only right that the other artist also ask the higher price. Also, when one artist can get a higher sum for their work but another who produces work of the same caliber continues to ask a lower fee people understandably start to question why. Is the other artists work lower quality? Are their materials poorer? Matching a competitors fair is just good for business.... But bad for buyers, obviously.

A never ending evil cycle. However, I am in agreement with those who question the high prices of many goods and services. In many cases I do not think they are fair but there is little to be done for it.​

 

But is there anything wrong with that? Almost everyone has to work for some sort of company that produces a profit. Other hobbies (art, theatre, knitting) have hobbiests that find a way to support their hobby with their hobby. This seems really discouraged sometimes in doll'ing (???).

Not necs.

Of course, very few people or companies have the option to just equal-out the costs of production. People also want to advance. And, if we consider the real scope of ABJD in comparisson to cars or electronics, no amount of inflation on a pair of dolly-jeans is going to be "worth it" without the company and individual's love of the product. I mean, how many pairs of jeans would Luts have to sell to even compete with large-profit items like, I dunno... Dell's computers. Actually, it isn't even an option. Luts can never hope to sell more then X number of an outfit.

While we like to think we can pull the market up or down, I question this. There comes a point where companies will just lose interst (and want to maintain a standard of living) if they can't make a certain amount. I see nothing wrong with supporting, in my case, Volks who some consider "expensive," since I HOPE they charge enough to keep everyone in the company content to keep sewing! They are a GOOD company. They deserve to make a profit.

What greed? I don't see this overpowering greed many others (in other threads and forums) suggests. It is a fandom. It's a hobby. It's a luxury, so why grudge another for making a profit since apparently we all do in our own jobs to afford this one? If anyone wants to collect dolls with lower profit margins from the companies and cheap clothes, Wal-Mart sells Barbie for under $8 throughout the year.

 

I guess I'm afraid of paying the high prices for clothing cause out in a meetup, they might get dirty. Then I wouldn't know how to clean it. Heck, I don't buy the expensive clothes for myself, save for jeans every once in a while. And my guys, they are the types who don't want to wear the expensive clothes. I tend to see them as normal guys who'll wear the suits on occasion, but normally? T-shirt and jeans please, same with me.

I know doll clothes are hard to make, and mine would likely never sell, even if the materials and time took me a few days to gather, make, cost...but I make theirs sometimes and they come out decent. Practice makes perfect, and if I could get $20 for a pair of pants like Dollmore or some here, that would make me happy! Heck, speaking of min. wage, I barely make above it, so it takes me a while to save for a doll. But I do want dollflower eyes....so pretty!

 

SailorLimaBean: Of course there is nothing wrong with making profits. Money is neither bad or good, right or wrong; however, the means to attain those money can question people's own moral and values.

Personally, I think that ABJD cannot be compared to cars or electronics. Cars and electronic are machines which are invented, researched and patented so when they're created, it's purpose is to make life conveinent for people. Are dolls created in that same manner as to make life easier for us? Sure, dolls make us feel better, but do they really make life more conveinent? *thinks of the market threads that has seller stating the reason they're selling dolls is because of debt*

Also, you as the consumer determined whether the expensive price tag is appropriate. Like I said, people who support the company will continue to increase the price. Of course there's nothing wrong with that because it's supply and demand, not love.

And Luts definitely have be making profits. You cannot compare them to Dell because Luts is a small but popular company. Dell is a corporation that expands beyond the US and has companies in all section of the world..probably in countries such as China, Europe, Middle East, and so forth. Therefore, you can't compare Luts and Dell. But Luts have to be making profits. If there are, say 10 people working at Luts and say 200-300 consumers. For a small company, if there are 200-300 consumers willing to buy their dolls or clothes or items etc, for 10 (?) people, they are definitely making a large profit. And again, there is nothing wrong with that. These people will probably need to money to pay off rent, tuition, debts, etc.

I feel that companies who "lose interest" are the unfortunate ones who cannot compete in the market so they have to find other means to attain their profit quota. There do come a time when demand is too much that supplies cannot feed it. Since there is not enough supplies, companies cannot produce doll/clothes/eyes and will have to use other lower cost alternatives. I'm seeing this with glass eyes becoming acrylic eyes at Luts and DIM's sites already. There's nothing wrong this alternative because consumers who prefer glass eyes might buy their glass eyes elsewhere. But there will be other consumers who will question the "worth" of it.

Well, I'd like to believe that people can pull up the market and pull it down. If not, then business is controlling and manipulating us (in US, they pretty much have control as we continue to be obsessively materialistic). It's just that a majority of people don't question the prices, so there is no change. Also I feel that the "lose of interest from company" is partially because of the consumer, who loses interest, not companies. For me, business caters towards consumer's needs, not vice versa (unless they have millions of dollars and dont need the profit xD).

I dont know where you've been looking or reading, but I have read explicitly of people talking about their own greed here on DoA and how these people feel that it's not wrong to be greedy at all. I guess if you don't believe that greed can exist here or in other doll forums, then you won't see it because you're not looking for it.

Greed in itself is debatable too because greed can have different meaning and values to each and everyone of us, so these different but various views will most likely clash and conflict against one another. It can't be helped.

For me, the reason I posted to this thread was to present another perspective and a different opinion to this discussion of expensive/overprices doll goods. A large majority of people who responded gave their opinions from the stand point of a "business person", someone who created the products that I, as a consumer, have a chance to buy. And they justified themselves with good reasons. However, there are many perspectives to this topic, but I feel that if we keep seeing only one-side, people will not see the complexity of this hobby. By believing that's done only for fun, entertainment, joy, that's being a bit too naive. I feel that it's more than just that.

Most importantly, my post was by no means a grudge on the people who make profits from it. It was pretty much: Overpriced/expensive clothes are done for profits because it's a competitive world. If consumers dont want expensive/overpriced clothes, dont buy it and prices will lower because consumers are the ones in demand. Also, I feel that there is a misconception of "The more expensive, the better the quality" and felt that consumer is paying more for experience and not quality; the name brand aspect of the goods, not necessarily the quality.

I guess the bottomline is pretty much this question: Do you trust this company/person enough to pay them for that price? And depending on where they stand, some people will answer yes and some will answer no.

 

Yes, it is time and cost of materials. My first several pairs of jeans I did free as I had to purchase several types of fabrics and experiment what would look good on such a small scale. Once I managed to get belt loops and operable pockets down, and a pattern developed, several hundred dollars later, I was able to produce something worth selling.

A reasonable per hour rate and cost of materials is not out of line. Everything I make is one of a kind, even developing a pattern, there is always something unique about hand made items.

Mary-Lee

 

OK, let's not get carried away here. As far as supplies go let's face it, you can make 10 pairs of Lati jeans with 1/4 yard of fabric which may cost you 3 bucks tops.

 

Skilled craftmanship is always going to be in high demand.... How many people have the ability to make such wonderful things being it clothes or wigs or shoes- for the dolls?
It's like the same thing with art... people will get fussy about high prices or try to say that it shouldn't cost that much- but you're providing a service that is in demand and not everyone can do.
I'm really of the opinion that a at the very minimum artists should consider what their per hour wage is and the minimum charging prices should be the wage x hours spent.. At the very minimum anyway.

 

I agree to a point, but charging minimum wage per hour is a bit unrealistic. (Unless the sewer/artist got their art down to a science -- As in, being able to make one piece in a couple of hours)

I've done a few gallery shows and pricing is a pain in the butt. I usually let the gallery owner throw out what they think they could sell it for, and I either go with that or tweak it.. I know what goes into my own work, but unless I really love the piece, do I even bother going higher than suggested. (Which, rarely, is based on wage)

When I work on a piece, it's the time involved that costs the most. Materials aren't the problem.

 

I wonder about that too and how much it adds to the price of an item.
Also it looks like seamstresses who make OOAK outfits don't reuse the same fabrics. So unless they make outfits for people or other dolls, they must have plenty of pricey fabric left over. Unless they buy end of the line or discontinued stuff?