Why do people charge so much?

I make and sell clothing on this forum and through my own website. I charge what I consider a fair, if a little expensive price for them.

I currently have in stock more than fifty leathers and fabrics. I spend a large amount of time shopping for them, and part of my price covers that. You just don't find green and black crocodile pattern stuff or even sometimes matte black in the right weight and of good quality at your local Joann's! You find them in the garment district in NY or an upscale fabric store in LA or SF - and buying fabrics online is very risky, I just don't buy a piece I haven't seen and touched personally. Now granted, I love traveling and shopping for fabrics, and usually when I visit a city, it's not JUST to shop, but it's work, even if it isn't spent actually toiling over a sewing machine.

The scale and relative difficulty of the fabrics I use (one of my leathers breaks needles because it's so tough and needles are a dollar each) also comes into consideration in my pricing, as does the time I spend finding models and making patterns so I can fit most dolls, no matter how obscure. There's a lot of trial and error when designing and pattern-making.

Honestly, however, I've had very few complaints about my pricing. Usually when there's an issue it's because I don't have that perfect mint green with just the right amount of shine or short napped, violet suede in stock!

 

your pants are
and I thought they were quite reasonably priced...especially when compared to the same caliber in human size!

I think that's something that contributes to people's sense that doll folks/companies are overcharging. it seems like many people here wear relatively inexpensive, mass-produced stuff...but for their dolls they like something a little higher class. although I like to dress in $10 t-shirts, the store where I buy blouses for work charges $49 for a blouse, and sometimes $59 or more for a pair of non-name-brand pants...and when I think about how expensive those would be if I added the slightest hint of "designer," the prices people charge for doll clothes seem eminently reasonable!

 

Speaking of designer labels, consider the BtSSB stuff and the H Naoto outfits. By some miracle, there were H Naoto jeans at the LA Sumika this past weekend. Did I pay $66 each for two pair, and happily, even though I make awfully nice pants? You bet I did!

Would I ever shell out that much for pants for myself? Not a chance in the world.

This is a very expensive hobby and I think it's easy for a person's frame of reference to get a little skewed when you've been in it a while. I'm okay with that. I work hard to afford these things.

 

I'M agree. Sometimes they exaggerate... really ......

 

Well, I have seen SD outfits sell as high as $2500 on Yahoo Japan. They were intricate, highly detailed and complete. They were incredible outfits, but out of my price range.

As someone mentioned, market prices will determine the price. In addition, sometimes there is a misconception that higher prices equate to better quality which isn't always the case. I also don't always want "better". Sometimes I want "simple". But it really depends on what you want as a buyer.

For me, I am very fussy about the outfits I buy. I generally prefer multi-item sets that give me the opportunity to make two or three outfits out of that one purchase. I also like the opportunity to mix and match pieces of various outfits. At the same time, I also prefer hand-crafted items over mass-produced items regardless of brandname.

 

I think the issue of time and craftsmenship is a big determiner of price. You have to look at clothing and esthetics like a sort of art form. The more skilled the artist the more you should be willing to pay for their time. Alot of people do this as a hobby so it does take away from their free time and you're reimbursing them for their time as well as materials. Materials can be shockingly expensive depending on the quality. I don't see anything wrong with paying someone 60 to 100 dollars for a faceup done with an airbrush because an airbrush is an expensive piece of equipment.

 

i think its really down to the buyer,,,,,,,,,,,,if its selling on e bay, then its some times madness what people will bid

 

I don't know if there really are "mass produced" outfits in the BJD world, aside from maybe some stock outfits. But even companies like Luts, Dollheart, etc. seem to make their outfits in fairly small numbers, and even "mass produced" clothing is still sewn by a person at a sewing machine. I don't know for sure how many of each item/set companies make, but if it's only something like 50 or 100 sets, it's not really all that much, you know?

 

When it comes down to it, collecting art is an expensive hobby.

 

I used to think the same as the OP. I looked at shoes and would think $40? Plus shipping? *I* could get a pair of shoes for that. But after reading this thread and thinking about the comments made here, I realize you guys are right. Each shoe is probably hand made, not mass produced. And I *know* after the limited sewing I've done, that it isn't easy to sew little clothes. As was pointed out, if you're off a little, it makes a big difference. And yes, this is a luxury hobby, and if I don't like the prices, I'm free to try and make my own stuff (try being the key word there ). Or get a cheaper hobby (personally I think any hobby is expensive once you really get into it but that's beside the point).

 

Well, what kind of eyes were they? That's a big factor. You might get "the same color eyes"-- i.e. blue-- but are you getting the same clarity, depth, focus, nuance, sheen, gaze, etc.? You won't be finding those super-clear urethane eyes for $20, that's for sure. Or hand-blown glass eyes with all those exquisite little different-colored threads all symmetrically positioned around the edges, you won't find those for $20. And any glass or silicone that's less than $20, sometimes you don't even get what you pay for (uneven pupils, unconvincing corneas, cloudiness, flat irises, etc). I love my $6 acrylics within an inch of their lives, and they're perfect for certain looks... but when I want a gaze so deep and clear and real it looks like it's about to blink, I have to drop $60 on Gumdrops. Most of the time, quality just isn't cheap.

 

Yeah... I often find myself buying expensive things for dolls (*cough* Dollheart Fer *cough) when I won't buy a shirt for me unless it's on clearance for $10.

Marsh, when I looked at your sales thread the first time after seeing photos of your pants around the board, I was kind of surprised how low the price was. For the quality, fit, and fabric, they're very reasonably-priced in my opinion. I've just come to expect to pay high prices for quality when it comes to these dolls. ^_~

Also, I didn't realize HOW skewed my frame of reference had become until I mentioned to my boyfriend that I was excited that I got a secondhand pair of eyes at a good price. He asked how much and I said "$40", and he nearly had a heart attack. "$40 for a pair of EYES?" To me, they were a nice pair of urethanes that I was getting for about 2/3rds the normal cost, but his reaction made me realize how crazy it sounds outside the hobby.

 

Well you know, I've stopped expecting the 'normals' to understand. When one of my non-doll-wacko friends or family ask what I paid for a garment, pair of eyes or shoes, wig or even a doll, my typical answer is, 'better not to ask.'

But given what vintage fashion doll collectors (*coughsBarbie*) blithely pay for some vintage clothes and shoes, we're really not all that off-skew.

 

While this is unquestionably true, I think it's all about point of reference. Many people pay huge quantities of hard-earned money for little chunks of electronics -- and then have to pay from $29.95 through ??? for EACH GAME they play on those little chunks of electronics -- and you know that a gamer isn't going to settle for one game.

We can argue that we get every bit as much pleasure from the things we purchase for our resin kids, over the long haul, as a gamer gets over the short haul from the games s/he purchases.

It's a question of priorities/perspective. I know collectors who have spent tens of thousands of dollars for paintings -- heck, I know somebody who spent $27,000 for a baseball card! Collectors are not particularly rational people.

 

I make doll clothes, altho to date I haven't tried to sell them, but I can tell anybody that if I were to factor in my labor & skills, Bill Gates wouldn't be able to afford what I'd have to charge - so when I do start selling what I make, labor won't even be a factor...and yet I have already heard that my items are "high". Well...

Consider that my jewelry uses REAL semi-precious & precious gemstones & beads, and 14k gold or gold-filled metals & findings. D'you know what the price of gold is these days? Over $1100 an OUNCE. Which means that eyepins & jump rings that used to cost $1.50 per 25 are now in excess of $10 per 25. That's over $2.50 PER PIN-!

Consider that the outfits I make are entirely custom-made, of expensive materials - real silks, real velvets, real venice laces. Consider also that each outfit is OAK, and additionally if it's a historical reproduction or copy, involves some research into authentic patterns, sewing details (like pleating vs. gathering), etc. Consider that a good deal of each outfit has to be done entirely by hand, with a needle & thread. The machine can't get in to do detail work - & I have a very top-of-the-line, professional quality machine that basically is a computer that sews. Which means tiny buttonholes, plackets, pockets, linings, collars, sleeves, etc. etc. etc. have to be done all by hand. D'you know how long it takes to do a decent 1/4" buttonhole? Can you - or the average bjd owner - even DO a 1/4" buttonhole?

See this gown?


It's real silk, & silk brocade. The bodice alone is made up of 8 bias-cut sections, for the slight bit of extra give the woven fabric has when cut on a bias, which entails using additional expensive fabric, not to mention knowledge of that little special fact that helps make the pieces fit better under stress, and therefore look better in the garment.
Each seam has tiny piping in it - all handmade from scratch by me, because you can't get commercial piping that matches this fabric, nor can you get commercial piping as fine as this is (it's no thicker than a piece of spaghetti). The piping not only helps define the shape of the bodice, but helps make the seams stronger. The bodice is boned, also, with commerical boning that had to be cut to scale, then hand-tacked in. The entire basic bodice, once together, was then mounted onto a cotton duplicate, and hand-tacked to it, but only in the seams and along the edges, because the fabric is too fragile to support the kind of pulling & stress the style demands, even on an unmoving doll. Undersleeves and the long, fully lined oversleeves were then added on. The whole shebang was then fully lined in very thin silk, all tacked on by hand, with tiny slip stitches so they couldn't be seen, even close up. Hooks & eyes were placed, lacings, trim, and finally the bodice "jewel". Just for the bodice, 20+ hours to sew it together, not counting figuring out the bodice pattern, pinning it, cutting it out, basting together, etc. - but I'm a fast worker. That doesn't count the time, fabric, or labor for the white cotton silk undershift she's wearing, or the 2 petticoats, both ruffled & with stiffener tacked in (the period represented was before crinolines), or the stockings, or the matching high-heeled slippers with their tiny jeweled buckles & black patent-leather covered heels, or the little handkerchief with the tiny hand-rolled hem and hand-tatted lace edging almost 3/4" deep, or the handmade "diamond" tiara, dogcollar necklace, bracelet, or earrings.

IF I were to consider selling this outfit (which I'm not, and probably never will) I would feel entirely justified to sell it for a minimum of $500 - which is probably grossly undervalued, all things considered, for an outfit that fits a 58 cm doll. But the detailing is what you'd find on a dress from, say, Chanel or Valentino, and possibly better. Certainly they don't have the problem of trying to make spaghetti-sized piping, or finding miniature grommets, or making the soles of their own high-heeled shoes, nor are they trying to do it on a gown only 25" from top to hem in which the measurements are in millimeters.

If I hadn't made it, I don't know if I'd pay that much for anything, but mostly because I don't have the kind of money to throw around that I could afford it - and also because I'm fortunate enough to be able to make it myself. If I were Paris Hilton, however, or Bill Gates? In a heartbeat I would, because that much is nothing to people with their money, it's OAK, and it's extremely fine detailing.

Not everything I turn out is of this level of labor & workmanship. This was a sort of demo model, for me to see what I could do. If I end up selling some of the outfits I make my girl, because we're bored with them, they won't be fully lined, or feature hand-rolled handkerchief hems & yards & yards of hand-stitched hems, hand embroidery, etc. But they will be nicer than anything you could get from Luts, or Dollmore, or any of the commerical makers, and they'll be One Of A Kind. Are they worth what I'll charge? I can't say, because that entirely depends on the buyer(s) if any.

It's a very subjective thing.

Now, on the other hand, I DO feel that commercial vendors charge too much for items that are mass-produced, and most especially they seem to be soaking the bjd consumers for "shipping & handling" costs. I got a pair of shoes from a company in Japan. They weigh maybe 1 ounce, total. The shipping cost was $18. I didn't mind paying for the slippers; they're pretty, & worth what I paid, but you bet yer booties I was & still am outraged by the outrageous overcharging for a thin plastic bag and $2.85 worth of actual postage! Even factoring in cost of paying someone to select the order, stuff it in the bag, seal it, weigh it, stick the postage on it, and throw it in a basket with other outgoing order, it didn't cost the company any $18 to pack & mail that package.

I don't mind paying $700 for certain doll sculpts. They're made by one or two people working out of their homes, so those dolls are art items, in a sense, even if they're not OOAK. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much for one of the dolls made by one of the larger companies who can & do mass-produce them - & then STILL try to charge the same as the one artist working alone. To me, that's just plain brass balls & greed, charging that much for something that took not 1/20th the time, effort, materials, & costs.

Again, it's all subjective: how bad does the consumer want it, and how much are they willing to pay?

 

Hmm, I don't know if that's exactly fair to say.... the doll companies that produce larger quantities of dolls still have to work hard on the sculpt until they've reached what they consider perfection, pour all of the molds individually, check each piece when it comes out, etc. They also may have much more expensive equipment to minimize the amount of parts that need to be discarded (a decrease in cost of no good parts, but I'm sure high expenses on their own). And... a lot of the doll companies that are selling really are just a couple of people working from a small workshop somewhere. I mean obviously Volks or Luts have more extensive staff, but many of the other doll companies are really quite small businesses and don't sell that many dolls (even some of the Volks dolls and such are made in pretty small quanitites).

 

People charge what they feel their work is worth.

In plushies, I've seen people charge upwards of $100 for a 6inch plush. That's about what my 18 inch plushies cost.

However, I sell my plushies because i enjoy making them. I'd still be sewing them if it wasn't for the money.

 

I know that I charge what I do for my work (drawings and art) because it's not my 'talent' that the customer is buying -- it's my time; which is so precious to me.

 

Coming from an accounting perspective, price is generally determined by the cost to produce an item:

Cost of Raw Materials
Cost of Manufacture (includes labor costs, machinery costs, etc.)
+ Shipping/Handling
Cost of Goods

Depending on the market demand, the actual profit a company (or person) makes on their inventory can vary. For BJDs and other one-of-a-kind items, the amount of skill that goes into making the item determines the base price. We're talking about highly skilled people hand-casting resin and then adding fine details largely by hand, or with very expensive machinery to preserve the intricacy of detail. That takes a good deal of effort and skill. Make that item popular and the demand goes up, meaning that these people need to crank out even more of these dolls at the same level of perfection as before, only on a larger scale. This means training more people to do the job, and that also takes time, energy, and money. That ups the price considerably.

I just spent $400 getting my master's degree certificate framed. The frame alone cost $238 (and, just my luck, is on back order). I could have bought a similar frame on the cheap for less than $50, and it would have looked pretty decent. But to be honest, I spent a pretty penny getting a private school education. Would it have been as special if I'd framed my certificate in a cheap frame from a discount warehouse? Hell no. I feel the same way about other one of a kind, customized items.

 

A friend of mine does wardrobe for theatre and when we were discussing BJD clothes and prices she said they were expensive because in reality they cost the designer/tailor the same amount of time as it would working on a bigger scale. Considering they base their price on the amount of hours taken to make the costume, then there aint much difference between our clothes and our dolls'